For the first time in a good while Alternative is gaining momentum around the country, (in Philly and other markets it never lost ground). Many stations are flipping to Alternative and dropping Rap/Hip Hop/Urban formats, which are declining rapidly. How much longer can the largest city in the nation and the most visited/diverse in the world, still be without a full blown Alternative, but is not without many urban and CHR formats. I don't think the masses will allow this format hole to be ignored much longer and will let the suits know how they feel on a Full Market Signal not some lousy rim shot.
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Alternative formats resurge across the country could NYC be next.
- Thread starter hangman
- Start date
In fact, just today WLKK FM - Entercom in Buffalo switched from a simulcast of News/Talk WBEN AM to alternative. Yes, it's a rim shot in Buffalo, but still, it's something!
So, are you suggesting that there is some sort of conspiracy by nameless "suits at corporate" to deprive the supposed masses of alternative music?
How is it sweeping the nation? Is a translator in Portland, OR and a weak rimshot outside of Buffalo sweeping the nation? And so, how does this apply to the NY market?
The only "corporate conspiracy" I know of is the desire to make money. Your argument would make more sense if you backed it up with numbers. Alternative on a big signal has to displace something that's already there. What should be displaced? How much billing would that cost the owner? How much time and money would it take to get an alternative format going? How and when will the owner profit? Those are just a few questions...
How is it sweeping the nation? Is a translator in Portland, OR and a weak rimshot outside of Buffalo sweeping the nation? And so, how does this apply to the NY market?
The only "corporate conspiracy" I know of is the desire to make money. Your argument would make more sense if you backed it up with numbers. Alternative on a big signal has to displace something that's already there. What should be displaced? How much billing would that cost the owner? How much time and money would it take to get an alternative format going? How and when will the owner profit? Those are just a few questions...
Give us 5 rated market examples of the above, please.
based on the market's own demonstration, with out much in the way of promotion, with in the course of 2 months wrxp 2.0 had earned a 2.4, better then wnow and only a touch lower then what clear channel is getting with a wwpr. While I know that 12+ are meaningless, it's a good place to start this conversation--and the alternative audience of today is much different then the rock audience of 2005 or 2009, or even the 1990s in that it's a more diverse audience and more desirable.
Earlier this year Cumulus CEO Lew Dickey had expressed interest in starting up some stations with some form of modern rock. But to the best of my knowledge there has been no further mention of this from them in recent months. And of course their WFAS FM has remained in Westchester County, with some recently hired staff members. Cumulus may have a full plate with such initiatives as
the Nash FM brand, their acquisition of Dial Global and their swapping of stations with Townsquare.
Too bad HD2 channels are widely ignored. New York has had two HD2's with alternative rock formats, and they do offer some choice. WAXQ 104.3 HD2 plays alternative hits similar to those aired on WRXP. As it is a rebroadcast of the Alt. Project from I Heart Radio, there are on-air personalities.
K-Rock on WNOW 92.3 HD2 has no dj's, but offers a deeper playlist. And now that they have boosted their power from 1% to 4% of the analog signal, they have a much more solid signal in much of the Metro area.
the Nash FM brand, their acquisition of Dial Global and their swapping of stations with Townsquare.
Too bad HD2 channels are widely ignored. New York has had two HD2's with alternative rock formats, and they do offer some choice. WAXQ 104.3 HD2 plays alternative hits similar to those aired on WRXP. As it is a rebroadcast of the Alt. Project from I Heart Radio, there are on-air personalities.
K-Rock on WNOW 92.3 HD2 has no dj's, but offers a deeper playlist. And now that they have boosted their power from 1% to 4% of the analog signal, they have a much more solid signal in much of the Metro area.
Damn that is one hard question so many are flipping, I will give you a few, some may of not flipped from Rap/Hip Hop/Urban but they flipped to Alternative anyway from some other format...one of the biggest gains in any market is Atlanta Radio105.7, WLKK Buffalo, 107 Mongomery, 95.7X, Knoxville, Richmond the River 103.7, Portland Radio 102.3, Fargo, the Box 102, Salt Lake City Alt94.9, Star 95 Muscle Sholes, CKUL 96.5 up in Nova, KNOB 96X Santa Rosa. There are many others since Labor Day, and some large markets are toying with adding an Alternative, just from what I heard.
But not one of those was a flip from rhythmic CHR or CHurban, right?
There are 15,000 stations in the US. A couple of flips in 2013 is not anything unusual. Stations change format when the existing one is not profitable or on a downturn or when an owner believes there is more potential in a different direction.
Of course, the Portland station is a 99 watt translator. Buffalo is an out of market rimshot.
Certainly alternative is an option in many markets. But I think you are exaggerating the importance of the Entercom move in Buffalo.
Pandora dude...though Pandora still isn't clever enough to serve me up Florence and the Machine and 10,000 Maniacs...now that would be cool. But, then again, maybe my thoughts about what would be cool alternative are actually more square with AAA (time stops for no one)...
In any case, it's not called Alternative anymore, its called Indie.
And secondly, if WFNX in Boston couldn't survive as Alt in this climate, I doubt that would bode well for the genre.
In any case, it's not called Alternative anymore, its called Indie.
And secondly, if WFNX in Boston couldn't survive as Alt in this climate, I doubt that would bode well for the genre.
I don't bother with Pandora anymore. Why let them pick what they *think* you might want to hear. I use Spotify where I can create my own playlists with exactly the songs I want.
And that more or less answers the OP's question. Radio is a business -- not a hobby. It's not a personal buffet of entertainment you would like to hear at a particular point in time. It's a mass market product designed to yield the most return for the owner. If you want a personal music buffet, get an iPod, Pandora, Spotify, etc.
On the other hand, I do enjoy reading the conspiracy theories and "facts" on this board that are espoused based personal preference and anecdotal/fabricated evidence.
If Alternative was so popular, you'd think WPLJ would respond by making their playlist more rock-leaning again, but they're still very much in their rhythmic-leaning phase right now.
105.7 in Atlanta was a Dance CHR or a CHurban. But the format was doing so well it was moved to a full market signal - it replaced an "alternative/experimental rock" format.
Well, Top 40 is very popular now. So WPLJ is just following the trend... being a Hot AC station that plays much of what's on the charts. That's what a Hot AC should be. What WPLJ plays doesn't reflect on whether NYC should have an Alternative station.
NYC had a couple of experiments with Alternative Rock. One was 92.3 a few years ago, while Howard Stern was doing mornings. But it seemed whatever version of Rock they tried, Alternative, Classic mixed with Current, nothing seemed to work. More recently we had 101.9 WRXP. You may say it was poorly programmed, poorly promoted. It was amazing how many mistakes they made. Yet if the audience was there, they could have overcome those problems.
New York is a unique market, which is why Country and Rock have such a hard time here. Yes, we have a sizable Hispanic and African American population which has no interest in those formats. But that's true other places where those formats work. However, we also have a giant population of people who grew up elsewhere and have no affinity for Rock or Country, be it Cairo or Hong Kong or Mumbai or Kiev. It just isn't their music. They like pop and dance music.
Then there's also the problem of having only 17 full power commercial FM stations in the market. We've got three dial positions, 93.9, 99.5 and 105.9, that are non-commercial. It's only thanks to 94.7 going from non-commercial to commercial that NY got a Country station this year. Most other markets have no non-commercial stations above 91.9. Then we're also in the Class B territory, where suburban stations have very little power. FM stations in Asbury Park or Babylon can only be heard in their own counties. In places like Dallas and Phoenix, suburban stations run with 100,000 watts. They can be heard all over. Fewer full-power commercial FM stations means less experimenting with different formats. If you switched the non-commercial stations at 93.9, 99.5 and 105.9 to profit-making status, and boosted some of the suburban stations to 100,000 watts, you'd surely have an Alternative station in New York, as well as other formats we currently don't have.
NYC had a couple of experiments with Alternative Rock. One was 92.3 a few years ago, while Howard Stern was doing mornings. But it seemed whatever version of Rock they tried, Alternative, Classic mixed with Current, nothing seemed to work. More recently we had 101.9 WRXP. You may say it was poorly programmed, poorly promoted. It was amazing how many mistakes they made. Yet if the audience was there, they could have overcome those problems.
New York is a unique market, which is why Country and Rock have such a hard time here. Yes, we have a sizable Hispanic and African American population which has no interest in those formats. But that's true other places where those formats work. However, we also have a giant population of people who grew up elsewhere and have no affinity for Rock or Country, be it Cairo or Hong Kong or Mumbai or Kiev. It just isn't their music. They like pop and dance music.
Then there's also the problem of having only 17 full power commercial FM stations in the market. We've got three dial positions, 93.9, 99.5 and 105.9, that are non-commercial. It's only thanks to 94.7 going from non-commercial to commercial that NY got a Country station this year. Most other markets have no non-commercial stations above 91.9. Then we're also in the Class B territory, where suburban stations have very little power. FM stations in Asbury Park or Babylon can only be heard in their own counties. In places like Dallas and Phoenix, suburban stations run with 100,000 watts. They can be heard all over. Fewer full-power commercial FM stations means less experimenting with different formats. If you switched the non-commercial stations at 93.9, 99.5 and 105.9 to profit-making status, and boosted some of the suburban stations to 100,000 watts, you'd surely have an Alternative station in New York, as well as other formats we currently don't have.
So when the CHR moved to the majors the Alternative format was brought up to the farm team?
True, but that eventually gets predictable. I actually prefer to find a station/channel/stream that I like and let them pick out music that they think I might like. Allows for some spontaneity, surprises and discovery.
Yep! WRDA, at 105.7,is the alternative format on a signal which only covers the north half of Atlanta. WRDA is at 4.2 6+ in the last trend...WWPW, the full market signal at 96.1 is at a 3.5. Both stations are ClearChannel stations.
I got bored with Pandora very quickly. I really do not understand their huge popularity. I also use Spotify Premium and can't imagine how I could improve that product (besides making it free...with no commercials!!)
But, with reasonable certainty, WWPW will outbill WRDA significantly.
(You meant "book" and not "trend", right?)
If, and I mean if WBAI gets sold, that would be the format's only chance at a market-covering signal. WFAS would be a garbage signal, but could be a candidate as well. Sadly, that's it. I may have to check out these recent flips, as I had no idea Portland got a 2nd station.
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