Alternative or Country to reappear in NYC

[atlantaboy]

New York has about 25% lower in-car listening than the average of all other markets (see caveats in another post) due to higher use of public transit, but it's the exception. In any case, the bulk of radio listening in the New York MSA is at home and at work... fully 75%.

What you're not taking into account, though, is the percentage of radio listening to Alternative stations - very few people listen to Alternative at work, and I would venture to say that an extremely high percentage of the Alternative listening base does not listen to the radio at home

Obviously, I don't have the facts to back it up, but I feel like over 50% of Alternative radio listening happens in the car, thereby giving the New York City market a HUGE disadvantage for the Alt. format

 

[d21ofnj]

New York is not a rock town unfortunately.

New York certainly isn't an Active Rock town, but the Alt-Rock format, when executed properly, has advantages that other Rock formats lack, the most important of which being its appeal to women. I think I read in Billboard that the Alt-Rock format has an audience composition of 60% male and 40% women, which could make such a formatted station competitive even in an otherwise Rock-ambivalent market like New York City.

Well, the Jersey Shore, notably Monmouth/Ocean is an active Alt-rock area, but G-Rock, WJSE, and Shore Alternative aren't around, which I really thought Shore Alternative would've shown some potential expanding to a translator being an HD station.  As for country, a good chunk of the NYC area has two country stations serving them.  WJVC My Country on 96.1 in LI, and Thunder 106 in MOnmouth/Ocean, which you're able to pick up 106.3 in a couple of the boroughs.  Sorry to say this Markie, but I'm gonna loop. 


[size=60pt]TIME FOR A DANCE STATION!!!!!     TIME FOR A DANCE STATION!!!!     TIME FOR A DANCE STATION!!!    TIME FOR A DANCE STATION!!!!!    TIME FOR A DANCE STATION!!!!! TIME FOR A DANCE STATION!!!!! TIME FOR A DANCE STATION!!!!! TIME FOR A DANCE STATION!!!!!

 

[BMR]

Do people not listen on headphones while on public transit? (Not on the subway, obviously!)

 

[TonySantiago]

Do people not listen on headphones while on public transit? (Not on the subway, obviously!)

On the "el" parts, they can listen on the subway

Only problem, in this day and age they are listening to their iPods and iPhones and they don't have FM on them. It's not like the days of the Walkman

 

[d21ofnj]

Well you have TuneIn Radio for the iPhone, and the recent iPod slims have FM radio on them. Wonder if there's an FM radio tuner app out?

 

[ansky212]

Well you have TuneIn Radio for the iPhone, and the recent iPod slims have FM radio on them. Wonder if there's an FM radio tuner app out?

TuneIn also has apps for Blackberry and Android. There are also numerous other apps like Nobex radio (for Blackberry) and IHeartRadio that carry other stations that TuneIn does not carry.

I don't know if an FM tuner app would be possible because the phones would probably need other hardware to be able to tune to commercial FM frequencies.

But in terms of ratings, do they count listeners that are listening online?

 

[Morpheux]

Imagine if you had seven stations in NYC all playing a decent amount of country or alternative mesh in with other genres. It's not rocket science to think there was a disproportionate audience that was being ignore or neglected.


Currently, we have KTU,Z100,Amor,La,Mega,X96.3,Hot 97,92.3 NOW all playing anywherefrom 3-10 songs respectively that fall under the dance genre.Then there are the mix shows where more dance/house sets are being played. Obviously,there is a huge void for a full time station that services this audience with a CHR Dance format.

92.3 would be my choice to present this format.They seem to have the right imaging already and if they want to truly knock Z100 it will be by riding the EDM wave that is exploding on both coasts and not by mimicking their approach.

 

[frozenfiresb]

As for country, a good chunk of the NYC area has two country stations serving them. WJVC My Country on 96.1 in LI, and Thunder 106 in MOnmouth/Ocean, which you're able to pick up 106.3 in a couple of the boroughs.

You forgot to mention Kicks 105.5 out of Danbury CT.

 

[d21ofnj]

As for country, a good chunk of the NYC area has two country stations serving them. WJVC My Country on 96.1 in LI, and Thunder 106 in MOnmouth/Ocean, which you're able to pick up 106.3 in a couple of the boroughs.

You forgot to mention Kicks 105.5 out of Danbury CT.

Might as well throw in 107.1 The Peak from Westchester in terms of the Alternative format ;D Thanks about Kicks.

 

[Jersey Maiden]

In any case, the bulk of radio listening in the New York MSA is at home and at work... fully 75%.

Does this include online listening? I find the "at work" part hard to believe, as it is so difficult to pull in radio signals in office buildings. My current office is about 15 miles due west of NYC and I sit by a window facing the city yet I still can't pull in a usable FM signal. When I worked in midtown Manhattan I had no chance of pulling in a signal unless I was in a room with a window facing towards Empire.

Listening at work doesn't necessarily mean an office building in the sky. It can also include restaurants, retail, body shops, etc. I would imagine that businesses probably make up a huge part of the cume for AC (on the supermarket episode of Modern Marvels, they said that playing soft rock keeps customers browsing longer). I lost count of the number of public areas that play either Lite FM or WMGQ. If not that, maybe a hot AC. My dentist plays WPLJ and Kam Man Supermarket in Edison plays Fresh. Z100 seems to be the non-AC station of choice for businesses who buck the trend. The tire shop at the Edison Costco seems to rotate between Z100 and WWPR. While I don't have the data to back this up, I would imagine that the vast majority of ratings for the Q come from the car since the only public place I heard it was at a Five Guys. The only place I heard RXP was at a temporary Wedgewood clearance sale. And I could still remember the first (and only time) I heard Krock in public (a Vietnamese restaurant in Queens).

And keep in mind that not everyone who listens at work does it out of their own free will. At my dermatologist's office, I heard one person complain about how their radio only gets WMGQ (this was also the case for my first job) and the bosses are too cheap to get satellite radio.

 

[Jersey Maiden]

Forgot to mention, since businesses have the radio on for 8 or more hours a day, I would imagine that they make more of a difference in ratings than home and car listeners.

 

[hubcity]

I lost count of the number of public areas that play either Lite FM or WMGQ.

Actually, I'm noticing something funny at the mall, ostensibly where they pay for non-radio delivered music. I'm hearing a *lot* of what, back in the 80's, was called "college rock". For instance, in one recent trip, I heard Elvis Costello's "Every Day I Write The Book", The Cure's "Boys Don't Cry", R.E.M.'s "Seven Chinese Brothers" and The Jam's "The Bitterest Pill" between Nordstrom and Charming Charlie (my wife and daughters were clothes/accessories shopping, and the music made it bearable for me.) That was a few weeks back - then last weekend, at Banana Republic, they played Madness, and hearing New Order at The Gap has become a regular occurrence. Do the malls know something radio doesn't?

 

[Jersey Maiden]

I lost count of the number of public areas that play either Lite FM or WMGQ.

Actually, I'm noticing something funny at the mall, ostensibly where they pay for non-radio delivered music. I'm hearing a *lot* of what, back in the 80's, was called "college rock". For instance, in one recent trip, I heard Elvis Costello's "Every Day I Write The Book", The Cure's "Boys Don't Cry", R.E.M.'s "Seven Chinese Brothers" and The Jam's "The Bitterest Pill" between Nordstrom and Charming Charlie (my wife and daughters were clothes/accessories shopping, and the music made it bearable for me.) That was a few weeks back - then last weekend, at Banana Republic, they played Madness, and hearing New Order at The Gap has become a regular occurrence. Do the malls know something radio doesn't?

I don't hear much 80's college rock but I do hear a lot of indie dance and alternative at the mall. Express plays a lot of good songs and so did Steve and Barry (RIP) but it upsets me that I can't find out who sings them or even what they're called. A few years back, I heard one with the line "living in magazines" that I loved but never found out if that was actually the name of the song. But the one place at Menlo Park that plays Z100 is Cold Stone.

 

[Dick Skinner]

I lost count of the number of public areas that play either Lite FM or WMGQ.

I don't hear much 80's college rock but I do hear a lot of indie dance and alternative at the mall. Express plays a lot of good songs and so did Steve and Barry (RIP) but it upsets me that I can't find out who sings them or even what they're called. A few years back, I heard one with the line "living in magazines" that I loved but never found out if that was actually the name of the song. But the one place at Menlo Park that plays Z100 is Cold Stone.

Zoot Woman "Living in a Magazine"

 

[CTListener]

I'll always know & argue the point, that NYC is a rock town. The clubs I go see bands in, are always packed with people in their 20's to people in their 50's! Webster hall was packed when I went to see the Black keys a short time ago. That's just one example. People are craving good rock music. Rock music & rock fans still live on, in NY.

The commercial radio companies aren't interested in the young people with a future who attend such shows. They're only interested in urban youth and young adults who read at a 4th grade proficiency and wear their pants down to their ankles, or perhaps the so-called "soccer moms" from Jersey. Even the rapidly ageing boomers seemingly have a few choices (CBS-FM and Q 104/3)!

Sell to the young and the stupid. That's not exactly new thinking for Madison Avenue.

 

[TonySantiago]

Imagine if you had seven stations in NYC all playing a decent amount of country or alternative mesh in with other genres. It's not rocket science to think there was a disproportionate audience that was being ignore or neglected.


Currently, we have KTU,Z100,Amor,La,Mega,X96.3,Hot 97,92.3 NOW all playing anywherefrom 3-10 songs respectively that fall under the dance genre.Then there are the mix shows where more dance/house sets are being played. Obviously,there is a huge void for a full time station that services this audience with a CHR Dance format.

92.3 would be my choice to present this format.They seem to have the right imaging already and if they want to truly knock Z100 it will be by riding the EDM wave that is exploding on both coasts and not by mimicking their approach.

Based on another posting, I think 93.1 would be the one to do it.

Here's my rationale. Yes, 92.3 Now is more dance friendly than Z-100 and by all accounts they should be the one to do it. But thinking "corporate", I think CBS is happy in terms of the commercial aspect of what's going on with dance than bringing over our branded artists to the table...and still want to compete against Z-100 instead of doing something separately.

That's why I think 93.1 would be better for this. The ratings under "Amor" have always been a perennial bottom filler, alongside WEMP. So you go do something different. I did read the post where you said that the SBS (Spanish Broadcasting System), owners of WPAT have minimal experience in dance music. Understood, the company runs Latin oriented stations. But you bring in the right people, work on the imaging and bingo...you have a dance/rhythmic CHR station. And if you still want to maintain some sort of connection with the Latino audience that was once there but are known with the dance brand, bring over someone like Jewelz Lopez and perhaps Efren Sifuentes.

 

[pjc1961]

Replying to the question about internet listening:

Yes - internet listening to terrestrial stations is tabulated by Arbitron.

If the stream is a 100% simulcast of the on-air audio AND if the station requests single-line reporting, the figures can be combined.

But since so many station streams are not 100% simulcasts of the on-air audio due to the commercial content being different due to the current arrangement of AFTRA talent not appearing on most station streams (because there's a higher fee structure in place for streaming commercials with AFTRA talent), most streams are listed separately.

If one looks towards the bottom of the monthly ratings reports, occasionally there are station streams listed with shares usually lower than 1.0 and cumes of less than 100,000. In other words, streaming generally is not a significant player in terms of the overall ratings picture.

I'd imagine there are different metrics in place for ad sales for a station's stream (and by extension, its website) and its over-the-air product.

As to another point, Mr. Eduardo has mentioned that most advertisers don't care where the listening exposure takes place (whether it be home, office, car, retailer/mall, restaurant, etc), just how much exposure takes place and for how long.

Since it is likely that any exposure a listener would have at any mall or outside business/retailer could likely be fleeting or otherwise not terribly significant in terms of weekly time spent listening, that type of listening helps a station's cume figure but doesn't do much in terms of share points.
Even if a person goes the same place for lunch every weekday and hears the same station playing - that's 2.5 to 5 hours a week of TSL. Enough to make a significant difference in share? Please advise...

Office listening, however, would be an important factor since there may be a captive audience for a station that plays for several hours a day, even if some of the office listeners wouldn't have chosen that station.

Folks here getting hung up on format success hinging on whether potential listeners commute or drive is rather misguided. Potential listening during a commute or drive makes up a smaller piece of the overall pie. So while it has to be factored in, it shouldn't be a focal point of any station's format choice and/or ratings strategy.

I remember a riff that Howard Stern had at WNBC regarding either Imus or Soupy Sales claiming that their show was "#1 (or #2?) in cars" in terms of ratings. Howard would say (basically) "...big deal! They're just trying to put lipstick on a pig".

 

[atlantaboy]

Potential listening during a commute or drive makes up a smaller piece of the overall pie. So while it has to be factored in, it shouldn't be a focal point of any station's format choice and/or ratings strategy.

I'm just going to speak from personal experience here - my favorite format is Alternative, and the only time I listen to Alternative radio is in the car - and same with a LOT of people I know - so if me and my friends lived in New York City and took the subway to work, I can tell you right now that we would never listen to Alternative radio

And it's not just commuting - it's driving in the car to Target, the grocery store, to friends' houses, etc. - which, if we lived in NYC, would never happen, since we'd walk and take the subway everywhere

Call me crazy, but I think it's gotta make a difference

 

[BobSmolarek]

Normally I'd say forget about NYC getting a country station. But a few things happening in the USA make me think maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea. First, I saw that in Minneapolis they are getting their second FM country station, full power. Second, WWYZ's strong ratings in Connecticut. Third, Thunder Country has a 4.6 rating (3rd place) in Monmouth-Ocean. Cat Country 96.1 does very well in the Lehigh Valley, not that far away. I'm just saying that conditions seem better for a country station.

 

[mary]

I would like NY country again, but classic country more,like wyny was music from that time. Alabama, Kenny, George Strait etc