AM 600 WBOB

[jmtillery]

I don't live in the JAX area but was wondering how much improved is WOKV's night time signal since the increase to 25kw? Its my understanding that the coverage pattern was "broadened" slightly in an attempt to cover more of the metro area. I was told that prior to the night time power increase, the only interference free area was a more or less narrow path between Baldwin and the beaches.

I don't live in Jax either, but I think that the night signal is heard well in Bermuda!

cd

The night signal is pretty awful North to South and pretty much STOPS west of the tower site in Baldwin, it's throwing all it's might to the East. Even then, the AM can be a tough catch from the southside at night where WOKV's studios are.

When I was GSM at what was then WJAX-AM 690 in the mid 80s, we could not hear the six tower 10kw nighttime signal at all at our Orange Park studio / daytime transmitter site. In order for the on-air person to hear the over-the-air nighttime signal, we had a direct dedicated phone line connection from the Baldwin transmitter to the Orange Park studio which worked fine for years.

 

[Megacycler]

Thanks for the responses. I suppose the original Brennan brothers spent a lot of money to put up a token night signal just to market the station as on the air 24 hours.

 

[nfladxer]

From living in Jax for over 3 decades, the WOKV 25 kw night signal has it's limitations (just like all the other AM's here at night) but IS better than it was with 10kw - mostly because the extra wattage more fully suppresses the interference from other incoming signals on 690 in most of the populated areas of Duval county to the East of Baldwin. In my travels, WOKV seems to basically cover an area from South of Jax international, to about, or just north of, the World Golf Village. I remember, back in the '70's and '80's, when heading South on US 17, the WAPE 690 signal would more or less quit right at the Doctor's Inlet bridge. But of course, during the day, that 690 signal sails up and down the coast! And to a lesser extent, so does the AM 600 WBOB signal - it's VERY good for 5kw!

 

[John FL]

Well, I’ve learned a thing or two about the AM 600 signal and it was an interesting journey indeed. So, signal is not the issue to explain the ratings. My opening comments starting this string mentioned the importance of a local morning show instead of syndication and I’m happy to see the overwhelming agreement there.

To Nfladxer’s earlier comment that WBOB has the potential to earn 2-3 shares, I agree. Growth at WBOB, even if limited involving a few shares, would impact WOKV and owner Cox Radio. This year, Cox probably has the most to defend market share wise on numerous fronts.

To WBOB’s credit, at least they have made the wise and correct decision to stream. Even the best signals have issues being heard in office buildings etc. but there has to be a hook to get listeners to realize they have an alternative. WOKV has lots of staff involved with Jacksonville’s Morning News. WBOB is not in the position to do the same but a local, even non-political, AM drive talk show engaging callers etc. – that’s the ticket! As the old saying goes, to make money you need to spend some money. A shame Bob Schuman didn't find a place here. He's now on WOMC - their gain - our loss.

Perhaps another way to look at this too is to remember in radio things can change on a dime. Mark is correct when he says WBOB is in great position to be Jacksonville’s strong second tier news talk station. However, focusing on what WBOB should do only is not the total solution. Unexpected events can affect WOKV’s talk line-up. WBOB has a great opportunity to take advantage of anything adverse that affects WOKV. Whether WBOB has the “right stuff” (pun intended) to make inroads or not in the end is their decision to make.

 

[smedge2006]

The platitudes dished out on this board on how WBOB can allegedly improve their position seem to reflect a total lack of awareness of how much of a gap there is between the first and second/third/fourth/fifth tiers in talk radio, and how unlikely it is that WBOB can close the gap, and given their ownership, probably doesn't want to.

I can't name an instance in the last ten years in which a second-tier AM, even with a good signal, has been able to keep it close with an ESTABLISHED market leader with Rush. The closest I can come up with is KXL in Portland. Other stations that lead the Rush stations have decades of heritage, such as WTMJ in Milwaukee. The one factor that seems to make a difference is something highly unlikely at BOB -- local talk.

WBOB is on the losing end on all fronts. No name syndication except Beck, whose star has bobbed up and down over the years and appears to be falling again with his departure from Fox.
No heritage in a market that doesn't have much local talk radio heritage to begin with. And no local content that isn't brokered. What's worse, if they launched a local show, all of their other handicaps would probably combine to kneecap that show -- no promotion, no awareness, etc. As far as taking advantage of "missteps" by OKV, the gap is so wide that nothing short of OKV going off the air for three years would close it.

I'd bet on Andy Johnson pulling a 5 share before betting on any substantial improvement for BOB.

 

[jmtillery]

The platitudes dished out on this board on how WBOB can allegedly improve their position seem to reflect a total lack of awareness of how much of a gap there is between the first and second/third/fourth/fifth tiers in talk radio, and how unlikely it is that WBOB can close the gap, and given their ownership, probably doesn't want to.

I can't name an instance in the last ten years in which a second-tier AM, even with a good signal, has been able to keep it close with an ESTABLISHED market leader with Rush. The closest I can come up with is KXL in Portland. Other stations that lead the Rush stations have decades of heritage, such as WTMJ in Milwaukee. The one factor that seems to make a difference is something highly unlikely at BOB -- local talk.

WBOB is on the losing end on all fronts. No name syndication except Beck, whose star has bobbed up and down over the years and appears to be falling again with his departure from Fox.
No heritage in a market that doesn't have much local talk radio heritage to begin with. And no local content that isn't brokered. What's worse, if they launched a local show, all of their other handicaps would probably combine to kneecap that show -- no promotion, no awareness, etc. As far as taking advantage of "missteps" by OKV, the gap is so wide that nothing short of OKV going off the air for three years would close it.

I'd bet on Andy Johnson pulling a 5 share before betting on any substantial improvement for BOB.

You have made your point very well and you have also made it very clear in each of your posts what you believe is wrong with WBOB and what you believe cannot be done. Now tell us what solutions you would implement to improve WBOB and bring AM 600 to its highest and best use. We are all very interested in reading about how you would do things differently in a way to create a better radio station.

 

[nfladxer]

I agree, Smedge2006's critique of WBOB seems rather heavy-handed, especially of their weekday talk line-up. The general consensus on this thread so far would indicate most observers here feel WBOB has more "potential" to succeed as a runner-up. No one here is suggesting AM 600 is going to overtake WOKV any time soon, without a tremendous cash investment by it's current owner, or another one coming in, to change that equation. I believe, with some smart promotion, and a re-tooled, local morning show, w/local news, weather and traffic elements, WBOB should be able to get at least some traction - and that could be a win-win for both C-P and Jax area talk radio listeners. I'm sure Mr. Dorwart and Cox radio felt more comfortable when WBOB was on 1320. I still feel it's very possible for AM 600 WBOB to crack a 2 share without a tremendous overhaul.

 

[jmtillery]

From living in Jax for over 3 decades, the WOKV 25 kw night signal has it's limitations (just like all the other AM's here at night) but IS better than it was with 10kw - mostly because the extra wattage more fully suppresses the interference from other incoming signals on 690 in most of the populated areas of Duval county to the East of Baldwin. In my travels, WOKV seems to basically cover an area from South of Jax international, to about, or just north of, the World Golf Village. I remember, back in the '70's and '80's, when heading South on US 17, the WAPE 690 signal would more or less quit right at the Doctor's Inlet bridge. But of course, during the day, that 690 signal sails up and down the coast! And to a lesser extent, so does the AM 600 WBOB signal - it's VERY good for 5kw!

WAPE-AM 690 was originally a 25kw day-timer transmitting from the current daytime transmitter site in Orange Park just off highway 17. As a day-timer, the Orange Park site worked fine as the signal covered Jacksonville with no problem. It wasn’t until sometime in the early 60s that night service was added and the day signal was increased to its present 50kw.

However, when night service was in the planning stages, it was determined that it was impossible to cover Jacksonville at night from the Orange Park transmitter location considering the antenna pattern configuration needed to obtain FCC approval. For this reason the Baldwin transmitter site was chosen as it is a straight shot due East over Jacksonville from the night-time transmitter site.

At one time the Baldwin site had its own separate studio, so literally, WAPE was two radio stations when it first became a 24-hour operation. My understanding is back in those early days, at sundown, the afternoon jock at the Orange Park studio would play the Ape yell as the last element before shutting down the 50kw transmitter. The Ape yell was the cue to the night jock in Baldwin to hit the transmitter plates (the filaments were already on) and begin broadcasting.

I’m not sure how the night jock cued the morning jock in Orange Park at sunrise since the night signal could not be heard at the Orange Park studio location. Perhaps a phone call is how they did it.

 

[Jeff2]

They were originally licensed to Orange Park.  When did that change to Jacksonville?

 

[jmtillery]

They were originally licensed to Orange Park. When did that change to Jacksonville?

I was unaware that 690 was ever licensed to Orange Park. However, I would imagine the COL change to Jacksonville took place at the same time night service was added. This stands to reason since the present 25kw and former 10kw 690 night service does not, and never did, respectively provide any kind of night signal over Orange Park.

 

[nfladxer]

Well, I didn't think Smedge2006 was going to take up Mr. Tillery's challenge on what WBOB could do to improve it's position! lol There might be a conflict of interest involved for Mr. Smedge! Actually, since this thread was active, looks like WBOB has gone down another fraction in March - to tie with an Orlando signal - Nuts! I would suspect that either something's wrong with how their PPM stuff is operating, or WBOB suffered some serious audience erosion after they vacated 1320 - then moved to daytimer 1530 last Summer - then to AM 600 in October, without any real outside marketing. I still think WBOB sounds quite good and has a very decent AM signal. If the past is any indicator, Chesapeake-Portsmouth may look into some technical upgrades, if they decide to keep AM 600 for any length of time - I would hate to see it go away. C-P seems to have a habit of selling their AM properties here to religious broadcasters. One would think Jacksonville is already more than well repesented in that area on on both AM and FM.

 

[John FL]

I don’t know how PPM works from an operational standpoint that WBOB can correct. Beyond that, they may have some of the right players but the schedule could represent missed opportunity.

The sports show at 1 PM. That makes no sense as there are already 2 sports stations going at it then. Listeners don’t set their watch to tune into a 3rd station doing the same thing. Moving the host to morning drive as part of a local morning show is a better use of resources. With L&T at 1010XL, sports competition is already diminished. The perception for the listener is WBOB is really an alternative news/talk station.

I don’t know how all this broker time goes but if dollars are an issue, there is already a local show/hosts in place at noon. Move it to mornings. Go with syndicated talk the rest of the day even if a show is repeated at night. I’m not sure what A.J. Davis is doing there and if he isn’t doing so now, he should be responsible for delivering a local news report after national news. With local news, a sports guy and hosts who can talk to listeners and interview local newsmakers, you got yourself another Jacksonville’s Morning News. Certainly a better way to anchor the station – I’m just sayin’.
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[jovialjay]

WAPE-AM 690 was originally a 25kw day-timer transmitting from the current daytime transmitter site in Orange Park just off highway 17. As a day-timer, the Orange Park site worked fine as the signal covered Jacksonville with no problem. It wasn’t until sometime in the early 60s that night service was added and the day signal was increased to its present 50kw.

Bill Brennan originally applied for 250w-D at Orange Park - the story being that a dinky facility like that would be easier to sneak past the other Jacksonville operators. This was a different time - one which other licensees could question the need for another station - a time which you had to prove you had the money to build and operate the requested station.

As I understand, the permit was granted, and on the same day an application for 25kw-D and a COL of Jacksonville was submitted. It flew under the radar and was granted without a whimper.

 

[AM Top 40]

I think what is now WBOB 600 lost two of it's 5 towers that comprised of it's former 5kw signal. Is it now doing three towers and 1.5kw? Not too bad, still...

 

[nfladxer]

AM 600 WBOB operates with 5,000 watts non-directional during the local daytime hours. At night, it's now 1.8kw directional. They used to be 5,000 watts at night with the former 5 tower array, but Radio Disney dismantled the 2 westermost towers a few years ago with the original intention of rebuilding them. Instead they decided to downgrade the night signal with the remaining 3 towers and sell the station. So I would imagine it's now up to Chesapeake-Portsmouth to rebuild the night signal, although, at that low AM 600 frequency, 1,800 watts does quite well. (Except for the Cuban interference)!

 

[smedge2006]

Thanks for waiting for me. I wanted to hear a little more of the station before making suggestions.

I got a chance to hear the midday show, "Just Speak Up!" the day after the Jacksonville mayoral election. The hosts were complaining that they had enough dirt to bury (mayor-elect) Alvin Brown but couldn't get anybody to pay attention to it. If you've got a radio show and can't get people to pay attention, something's wrong. Perhaps concocting a few parody songs to describe all the alleged sins of the Brown campaign, such as (gasp!) turning out 18 year old high school students from the "north side" (I think you recognize the code) to vote. From a programming perspective, they should have been pounding Brown the way Limbaugh pounds Obama, with utter disrespect. If I were WBOB, I'd try to create a six-hour bloc of local conservative talk, to build some TSL. I think they need a second host that's a little more energetic than Just Speak Up. They might want to look at Ray Junior from WFOY, although it seems to me he has his own challenges...
http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=191100.0
The important thing is he's a believer and that outweighs mixing up your Chavezes or other facts.

One of the callers inadvertently pointed out something useful. The caller to Speak Up suggested that the station should put an "investigative reporter" on all the Brown rumors. The host said something along the lines of "oh no, radio can't do that in a market that size." Building a WOKV-style news dept. with lots of "who shot who" WOULD be a waste of money. But getting one reporter and doing news casts that are nothing but facts to support tea party ideas and digging dirt on opponents -- BREAKING stories -- people would listen to that. A bunch of "investigative" stories about "northsiders" storming the polls would have tied in well to stories about Gov. Scott backing the voter restriction bill. Basically, do "tea party news" and that'll draw away from WOKV's gunshots and car wrecks formula.

 

[Stormychuck]

Were not really sure that smedge2006 has a real and a clear understanding as to how radio really work's!

 

[work]

Bring back WPDQ, is all I can say. Vyhe way, WBOB's signal is horrible here in Baymeadows, with what sound like frequent off-air blips, at night. I bet it's completely automated after, say,6 PM.

 

[nfladxer]

Good bet! For the most part, you would be correct, sir! Although, if you know anything about this biz, AM 600 is not the exception. While some of the large revenue making AM and FM stations still maintain a 24/7 human presence, you might be surprised how many of the highly rated FM stations here in Jacksonville, for example, and in many other markets, both smaller and larger, operate with no one at the wheel after 7pm. Most of these stations employ a "silence sensor" system to monitor the transmitter and audio, and can intervene remotely, if need be. Talk stations usually just pre-program the elements, and the various networks and syndicated shows supply the "live" bodies. Music radio has the option of "voice-tracking", or in many cases, may just let the "imaging" do the talking between songs. With more sophisticated computer software running the show, most operators feel "safe" with the technology, plus they SAVE MONEY, with the resulting smaller staff. It's all bottom-line, period! "And that's the way it is, Tuesday October 11th, 2011"!

 

[N1WVQ]

Looking @ the recent 6+ ratings, WOKV as 10x the cume as WBOB & WBOB is only 1/10 of a percent above WFOY! Wow. That's bad!