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AM Frequency of the week: 1470:
- Thread starter cyberdad
- Start date
This gets my vote for one of the most interesting OT threads ever.
I was aware of much of what's been discussed here, but never knew there was quite a bit more to it.
So my question is this....Was there any connection between these moves and the shift from WOC-TV in Davenport, IA from Ch 5 to Ch 6? My understanding was that was to alleviate intereference with NBC's WNBQ Ch 5, Chicago (now WMAQ-TV), I beleive that move also had the effect of opening up Ch 5 for WOI-TV in the Ames-Des Moines market. Allocating Ch 6 to Milwaukee may have also been another "falling domino" involved.
I was aware of much of what's been discussed here, but never knew there was quite a bit more to it.
So my question is this....Was there any connection between these moves and the shift from WOC-TV in Davenport, IA from Ch 5 to Ch 6? My understanding was that was to alleviate intereference with NBC's WNBQ Ch 5, Chicago (now WMAQ-TV), I beleive that move also had the effect of opening up Ch 5 for WOI-TV in the Ames-Des Moines market. Allocating Ch 6 to Milwaukee may have also been another "falling domino" involved.
OK, time to roll out a blast from the past: The FCC's Sixth Report and Order. Google search brings up a link to that doc from a known quantity here:
https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-BC/BC-1952/BC-1952-04-14-Pt-II-TV-Freeze-Lift.pdf
This was a super-sized edition of Broadcasting magazine from 1952 which reprinted the Sixth R & O in its entirety. Scroll down to about page 50 to get into the midwestern proposals and conclusions.
https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-BC/BC-1952/BC-1952-04-14-Pt-II-TV-Freeze-Lift.pdf
This was a super-sized edition of Broadcasting magazine from 1952 which reprinted the Sixth R & O in its entirety. Scroll down to about page 50 to get into the midwestern proposals and conclusions.
My head hurts looking at that. But yes, the switch of WOC from 5 to 6 does exactly as Cyberdad said, clearing north central Illinois of interference (the midpoint between Chicago and Davenport is about Compton, Ill., in today's Rockford TV market but in the 1950s a haven for big antennae aimed east and west on big towers, and where even today one company advertises towers to watch Chicago, Rockford, Quad Cities and Peoria TV) and allowing clear views of WNBQ on 5 and WOC on 6, plus allowing WOI to transmit on 5 in Ames.
Great find!
I'm guessing that WOC-TV's move from 5 to 6 had nothing to do with being short-spaced to St. Louis. Both markets also had Channel 4, and it wasn't moved in either St. Louis or the Quad Cities.
Is KLCL still on the air? I haven't checked recently but I read somewhere they had gone dark.
In west Houston, during the day it's slop from semi-local 1460 KBRZ's south Asian format. At sunset and in the evening it's KYYW and sometimes KLCL. I've also heard KWRD in Henderson (NE Texas) playing classic country. There are also Spanish stations in the mix, with XEAI in Mexico City most recently heard. XEHI down in the Rio Grande Valley might be in there but not sure if they're still on the air.
WMBD used to be a Monday morning regular when I was DXing in Tulsa in the early 70's.
K
kf4rca
Guest
1470 here is WRGA Rome GA. They operate 5 KW full time. Appears to be a Salem affiliate.
It looks like Lester Lindow promoted maximum development of the UHF service as an alternative to VHF drop ins.
It's funny. At least two VHF drop ins eventually were dropped in, one way or another. Channel 8 Knoxville was dropped in, much to the consternation of WTVK Channel 26. It looks like they finally eventually ended up moving to Channel 8.
It was proposed to drop in Channel 11 to Grand Rapids, MI. That didn't happen, but WGVU Channel 35 now occupies digital physical Channel 11.
It's funny. At least two VHF drop ins eventually were dropped in, one way or another. Channel 8 Knoxville was dropped in, much to the consternation of WTVK Channel 26. It looks like they finally eventually ended up moving to Channel 8.
It was proposed to drop in Channel 11 to Grand Rapids, MI. That didn't happen, but WGVU Channel 35 now occupies digital physical Channel 11.
Grand Rapids is too close to Chicago. Interference with WENR-TV was why WLAV-TV moved from 7 to 8. No way could two Channel 11s have coexisted in that short space.
From NW San Antonio:
Day: Heavy splatter from local 1480 KCHL
Sunset: Aiming NW/SE I can null the splatter a bit and hear XEAI "Radio Formula" in Mexico City and occasionally a weak KWRD in Henderson, TX.
Night: To the NW, XEAI is heard the most with KDHN in Dimmitt, TX, sometimes mixing in or taking over. News/talk KYYW in Abilene occasionally pops up as well. To the E/W, KLCL in Lake Charles and KWRD can often be heard in/out.
Sunrise: KWRD and especially KYYW are stronger after going to day power. The latter is last to fade before skywave is gone and KCHL splatter takes over.
DX/RETRO: I used to hear XEHI in Ciudad Miguel Alemán around sunrise, but the station must be retired now. Also, I've heard KSMM in Liberal, KS, in the past around sunset, but I'm not hearing it at all these days.
Day: Heavy splatter from local 1480 KCHL
Sunset: Aiming NW/SE I can null the splatter a bit and hear XEAI "Radio Formula" in Mexico City and occasionally a weak KWRD in Henderson, TX.
Night: To the NW, XEAI is heard the most with KDHN in Dimmitt, TX, sometimes mixing in or taking over. News/talk KYYW in Abilene occasionally pops up as well. To the E/W, KLCL in Lake Charles and KWRD can often be heard in/out.
Sunrise: KWRD and especially KYYW are stronger after going to day power. The latter is last to fade before skywave is gone and KCHL splatter takes over.
DX/RETRO: I used to hear XEHI in Ciudad Miguel Alemán around sunrise, but the station must be retired now. Also, I've heard KSMM in Liberal, KS, in the past around sunset, but I'm not hearing it at all these days.
Channel 13 didn't fit in very well into Grand Rapids either. They had to put the transmitter way out NW and almost didn't put a City Grade Signal over the COL. It also didn't serve Kalamazoo and Battle Creek like 3 and 8 did.
I didn't see the details, but I suspect that 11 would have been forced to locate far North of Grand Rapids, and perhaps required WBKB-TV 11 Alpena (that's where the call letters were recycled to, "Toddlin' Townies") to be considered to be a limited directional and HAAT allotment. And of course there's WTOL 11 in Toledo. Whatever 8 in Knoxville, WTVK...WVLT, was, it was required to be a DA limited allotment.
I didn't see the details, but I suspect that 11 would have been forced to locate far North of Grand Rapids, and perhaps required WBKB-TV 11 Alpena (that's where the call letters were recycled to, "Toddlin' Townies") to be considered to be a limited directional and HAAT allotment. And of course there's WTOL 11 in Toledo. Whatever 8 in Knoxville, WTVK...WVLT, was, it was required to be a DA limited allotment.
Here in Columbus, Ohio, 1470 is a bunch of nothing other than splatter from local WBNS on 1460.
One thing several people have nailed in this thread is that the former WOHO, later WLQR, is indeed no more. Their license was turned in back in the fall of 2016. The last time I was in Toledo, in June 2017, the towers still were standing out off I-280 southeast of downtown Toledo in the suburb of Oregon. I thought they'd been removed but Google Maps photos that appear to have been taken in May 2019 showed them still standing.
I interned at WLQR in the fall of 1999 as a senior at the University of Toledo. Decent signal over the city, but really hamstrung not far to the west of the towers given that they had to tuck in to protect WMBD.
One thing several people have nailed in this thread is that the former WOHO, later WLQR, is indeed no more. Their license was turned in back in the fall of 2016. The last time I was in Toledo, in June 2017, the towers still were standing out off I-280 southeast of downtown Toledo in the suburb of Oregon. I thought they'd been removed but Google Maps photos that appear to have been taken in May 2019 showed them still standing.
I interned at WLQR in the fall of 1999 as a senior at the University of Toledo. Decent signal over the city, but really hamstrung not far to the west of the towers given that they had to tuck in to protect WMBD.
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The night I pulled in WBKB-11 after WTTW signed off was a real treat, just to see the call sign on the air again.
WZZM-13 was so unreliable on the south (Kalamazoo) end of the GR market it had a repeater on 12. The local edition of TV Guide listed it as 13-12 for a long time. Not sure if that remained after 41 in Battle Creek came on.
They had to locate Channel 13 far enough north so it wouldn't be short-spaced to Toledo or Rockford. When it was allocated to Cadillac, it was fine.
Too far north, and it would have been short-spaced to Green Bay and Alpena. There was just no way a Channel 11 could be allocated to southwestern Michigan in the analog era.
Due to CBS network overlap petitions to deny filed by WWTV, WBKB 11 could never operate with full 316 kW/300 meter HAAT facilities. It had to be a figure 8 with 316 kW maximum ERP and reduced height. The DT station has CBS, ABC, and FOX on three sub channels, but no NBC. NBC is extremely difficult to receive off air, as both WTOM and WEYI operate on UHF.
I worked at WLFI in the 90s, and I wasn't even aware of the directional pattern. After sign off it wasn't uncommon to see 18 out of Lexington or Milwaukee, and we had one strong tropo opening where Milwaukee's 18 overrode us while we were on the air, and we couldn't even monitor ourselves off-air
Same deal why WBBM moved from 4 to 2. Not only to open up 4 in Milwaukee for allocation, but also clear the interference in north central Illinois with WHBF-TV Rock Island.
I worked at WHBF (radio and TV) for four years in the 1970s. I think you're correct, but I also don't think WHBF in the early '50s would have been a serious problem for WBBM-TV. The original tower....still standing when I was there, as well as today....isn't very tall. Located at the rear of the building and only a few blocks from the Mississippi river, Which means it was at the bottom of a valley. During my tenure, it was used with the 250-watt auxilliary transmitter for WHBF-AM. Later, the TV transmitter was moved to a much taller stick about 20 miles south of town. Resulting in much wider coverage, but a lousy picture in much of the COL.
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