Looks like the three old WTMJ towers in Greefield have been taken down. Like the old WCFL towers, each was a different design. The tall ND tower was a self suporting tower with non tapered tower sections topped by tapered tower sections. Somewhere, I read that it was 580 feet, but I can't find that now. I thought it had been used for the original TV station, but I'm not sure now. Looks like it was near Blue Mound Rd. and Calhoun Rd. Maybe Chris, Kent, or Jeremy know more.
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AM Frequency of the week: 620
- Thread starter cyberdad
- Start date
2 locations for you. Brandon FL: WDAE all the time. Altamonte Springs FL: WDAE during the day and it is a moderate signal and at night mix of spanish and WDAE.
Sorry to break in with a tangent, but the WDAE calls have something in common with another 620, WTMJ Milwaukee. The original license of WDAE (now occupied by 1250 WHNZ Tampa) along with WTMJ are tied for the position of 72nd oldest radio station in the United States.
It used to be a three way tie, but the station that was technically older than WDAE, 990 WCAZ Carthage IL was recently deleted. Along with WTMJ, all three licenses were issued May 15, 1922. WTMJ was originally WCAY, next in line was WCAZ, then WDAE was the last sequential call issued that day.
The next day, the Dept. of Commerce issued the license for a long time occupant one notch down on 610, WDAF (now KCSP) Kansas City.
Enough tangential trivia. Shed a tear for D-WCAZ, a small-town, stand alone, daytimer AM station that's seen better times...back to 620 kHz reception reports.
http://www.oldradio.com/archives/general/100oldest.html
It used to be a three way tie, but the station that was technically older than WDAE, 990 WCAZ Carthage IL was recently deleted. Along with WTMJ, all three licenses were issued May 15, 1922. WTMJ was originally WCAY, next in line was WCAZ, then WDAE was the last sequential call issued that day.
The next day, the Dept. of Commerce issued the license for a long time occupant one notch down on 610, WDAF (now KCSP) Kansas City.
Enough tangential trivia. Shed a tear for D-WCAZ, a small-town, stand alone, daytimer AM station that's seen better times...back to 620 kHz reception reports.
http://www.oldradio.com/archives/general/100oldest.html
Yes, sorry to see this one go. A historic station in a historic area. As posted previously, they had a nice signal with 1kw ND-Day on 990. I remember them during my college days for ditching the farm-oriented stuff, swap shops, obits, etc. for an hour of top-40 at 4pm weekdays (and once introducing "Somebody to Love" as being by MISTER Jefferson Airplane). RIP
My apologies also for the veer.
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They probably thought "Mr. Airplane" was buzzed, especially given how much he sounded like a woman!
I didn't set out to cross-promote the other thread, except that there were so many coincidences. If you want to follow the tangent, there's more here: http://www.radiodiscussions.com/showthread.php?702513-After-95-years-990-WCAZ-Carthage-IL-is-deleted
I didn't set out to cross-promote the other thread, except that there were so many coincidences. If you want to follow the tangent, there's more here: http://www.radiodiscussions.com/showthread.php?702513-After-95-years-990-WCAZ-Carthage-IL-is-deleted
And if you'll forgive the tangent on your tangent, Joe B, vis-a-vis WDAE and WSUN, hi .....
I'd mentioned that up around JFK Airport in Queens during the 'retro' days of DX, 620 WSUN often was the lone overnight occupant on that channel. And on 1380, especially on Sunday morning SRS's, WLCY St Pete quite often was audible and tape-able when the share-time NYC stations WBNX and WAWZ were getting their shoelaces untied from each other's.
But WDAE 1250 -- similar format to WSUN 620.... easy-listening pop MoR -- was heard exactly *once* during all those years up by us. As far as full-time regional signals from Tampa/St.Pete went, WDAE was the biggest challenge to nab up by us.
Their nighttime pattern wasn't that much dissimilar to that of WSUN, either.
I'd mentioned that up around JFK Airport in Queens during the 'retro' days of DX, 620 WSUN often was the lone overnight occupant on that channel. And on 1380, especially on Sunday morning SRS's, WLCY St Pete quite often was audible and tape-able when the share-time NYC stations WBNX and WAWZ were getting their shoelaces untied from each other's.
But WDAE 1250 -- similar format to WSUN 620.... easy-listening pop MoR -- was heard exactly *once* during all those years up by us. As far as full-time regional signals from Tampa/St.Pete went, WDAE was the biggest challenge to nab up by us.
Their nighttime pattern wasn't that much dissimilar to that of WSUN, either.
Speaking of 1380 from St. Pete, I heard them once when I was visiting New Jersey in the late 80's. When they were WRBQ and were a simulcast of 104.7 Q-105
It was an unexpected surprise right around dusk before they switched to their nighttime pattern.
There it rose above the background mess on my Sony AM Stereo Walkman and I heard Mason Dixon give the 'Q-105' ID followed by music in stereo.
The station stayed listenable for a while and I could tell when they changed directional broadcast because they suddenly vanished.
What made that even more fascinating was that where I lived at the time in North Tampa, WRBQ 1380 had a very weak signal at night and sounded like an out of market distant station with other stations in the background. But they were strong and local sounding during the day.
And BTW, I thought AM Stereo was great and I thought WRBQ sounded better on 1380 AM than it did on 104.7 FM.
It was an unexpected surprise right around dusk before they switched to their nighttime pattern.
There it rose above the background mess on my Sony AM Stereo Walkman and I heard Mason Dixon give the 'Q-105' ID followed by music in stereo.
The station stayed listenable for a while and I could tell when they changed directional broadcast because they suddenly vanished.
What made that even more fascinating was that where I lived at the time in North Tampa, WRBQ 1380 had a very weak signal at night and sounded like an out of market distant station with other stations in the background. But they were strong and local sounding during the day.
And BTW, I thought AM Stereo was great and I thought WRBQ sounded better on 1380 AM than it did on 104.7 FM.
Regarding WRBQ-AM, AM sounds better on low frequency audio, at least to me. My theory is that the low frequency preempahsis on FM with subsequent deemphasis causes there to be a lesser signal to noise ratio on the low frequency audio. Older recordings seem to have a more low frequencies, so if they were a Classic Rock or Oldies station, it might be noticeable. And the same songs also don't sound nearly as good on Sirius XM 60s on 6 either, for instance. WSAM 1400, with it's 1/2 wave nondirectional antenna, sounded great, especially on the Bass Guitar line on "Brown Eyed Girl", which I noticed way back in 1967. They also sounded better than any other station besides CKLW (allowed more bandwidth) in AM Stereo in my opinion. Did the WRBQ audio sound better in the Daytime Non-DA than at Night DA?
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Quick question, although I probably know the answer:
Can auroral reception be active in the day? Like 12 Noon?
If so, can it be as effective as at midnight?
There are stars outside now, 10 AM. They're just not visible in the sun glare.
Anyway, there were some afternoons back near JFK -- still pretty light out. And in would be coming some abnormal DX. WNOR Norfolk on 1230 atop for a few songs (with WFAS White Plains, WCMC NJ and WITH Baltimore all being closer. WGH 1310 was well atop that frequency, with a grumbling jumble of stations. They were probably the closer WCAM Camden NJ, WJLK Asbury Park, and WVIP Mt. Kisco. Still, whatever they were, WGH was overriding them all.
It was also late one afternoon, a little after sunset but still light enough for, say, a catch in the street, when I heard WFLA 970 in a downright evil null of dial-local WJRZ Hackensack, WJRZ was often given fits around SSS by two other stations. But WFLA Tampa ?!? Does ducting/daytime skip go that far? 1100 miles?
Just suggesting that your SSS catch of WLCY might've been amid the same sort of conditions, Gar. The mid-Atlantic shores plus half the state of Florida would be in the way of water-path.
Can auroral reception be active in the day? Like 12 Noon?
If so, can it be as effective as at midnight?
There are stars outside now, 10 AM. They're just not visible in the sun glare.
Anyway, there were some afternoons back near JFK -- still pretty light out. And in would be coming some abnormal DX. WNOR Norfolk on 1230 atop for a few songs (with WFAS White Plains, WCMC NJ and WITH Baltimore all being closer. WGH 1310 was well atop that frequency, with a grumbling jumble of stations. They were probably the closer WCAM Camden NJ, WJLK Asbury Park, and WVIP Mt. Kisco. Still, whatever they were, WGH was overriding them all.
It was also late one afternoon, a little after sunset but still light enough for, say, a catch in the street, when I heard WFLA 970 in a downright evil null of dial-local WJRZ Hackensack, WJRZ was often given fits around SSS by two other stations. But WFLA Tampa ?!? Does ducting/daytime skip go that far? 1100 miles?
Just suggesting that your SSS catch of WLCY might've been amid the same sort of conditions, Gar. The mid-Atlantic shores plus half the state of Florida would be in the way of water-path.
It sounded better in the daytime to me only because the signal was strong and solid. I never heard it at night in any location where the signal was strong.
But you said exactly the reason I thought AM Stereo was better because of the lower frequency audio.
Notice how old fashioned records are making a huge comeback.
Aside from the scratches, I think the old music sounded a lot better on vinyl than it does on 'remastered' CD audio.
And as a side note, I can't stand the song 'Brown Eyed Girl'.
Not that it's a bad song but the oldies stations play it to death, as if they think we can't go an hour with hearing it.
Probably the most overplayed song of all, next to others like Sweet Home Alabama, I Will Survive, Heart of Glass, Every Breath You Take, What A Fool Believes.
Enough already! Play some variety for a change.
I was one of the first to hear "Brown Eyed Girl", and ARSA bears that out from who played it first, but like you, think it's overplayed today. Amazing for a song that just spent one week in the Top 10, at #10. The bass line is what I found to be the hook, especially the break. The low notes on that sound like knocking on FM. It's "controversial" lyrics are considered tame by today's standards. But that most likely is what held it back from charting higher.
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I just came back from a trip to the Detroit area. WTMJ was listenable for the whole trip.
I'm always surprised how well some of my locals do in NW Indiana and SE Michigan, including WISN 1130 and WAUK 540. Also (yeah, I know it's an AM thread) my local WIIL 95.1 is always listenable around Benton Harbor and quite a ways east from there on I-94.
I'm always surprised how well some of my locals do in NW Indiana and SE Michigan, including WISN 1130 and WAUK 540. Also (yeah, I know it's an AM thread) my local WIIL 95.1 is always listenable around Benton Harbor and quite a ways east from there on I-94.
As most of those here know, I traveled in my work before I retired, and I still travel from time to time now in semi-retirement. I've made the run to Motown quite a few times, but I never tracked WTMJ. I would imagine that by the time you get to get to the city or close in suburbs, splatter from CFCO (630) would become a significant issue. But I'm not surprised WTMJ makes it all the way to Detroit.
WAUK and WISN certainly also have nice signals. You can also pick up WOKY just about as soon as you cross into Michigan from Indiana on I=94. By the time you get north of Benton Harbor on 131, WOKY is quite listenable for about 75-100 miles depending on how good your car radio is.
As for WIIL, Where I live in Crystal Lake, IL, the signal is equal to, if not stronger than the Chicago FMs. I actually hear it on from time at various local businesses here.
WTMJ has always been pretty receivable to about Flint, and perhaps Clarkston, even with 5000 watts nondirectional, in Oakland County. But I have had a hard time hearing them closer to Detroit on the car radio because of CFCO. The ground becomes sandy, gravelly and rocky in NW Oakland County, and along with reaching a critical distance, it takes a toll on those signals like WTMJ, WSCR, WGN, WBBM, and especially WLS and WMVP. I wonder whether the new site real conductivity is as good in Union Grove as at the old site in Brookfield. Not that it's bad, but just not as good toward Lake Michigan perhaps. I would have expected the signal to be noticeably better straight East.
"I have had a hard time hearing them closer to Detroit on the car radio because of CFCO"
Didn't want to talk too much about CFCO since it is probably the next Frequency of the Week. I recently purchased a 2015 Ford Fusion, and the radio is quite amazing. Great sensitivity, fantastic adjacent channel rejection, and clear audio (that goes for both AM and FM). And NO internally generated noise. I didn't expect much since it has the now-obligatory stubby roof-mount antenna, but WOW. TMJ was clear driving down Michigan Avenue in Dearborn with NO CFCO splash.
Didn't want to talk too much about CFCO since it is probably the next Frequency of the Week. I recently purchased a 2015 Ford Fusion, and the radio is quite amazing. Great sensitivity, fantastic adjacent channel rejection, and clear audio (that goes for both AM and FM). And NO internally generated noise. I didn't expect much since it has the now-obligatory stubby roof-mount antenna, but WOW. TMJ was clear driving down Michigan Avenue in Dearborn with NO CFCO splash.
"I have had a hard time hearing them closer to Detroit on the car radio because of CFCO"
Didn't want to talk too much about CFCO since it is probably the next Frequency of the Week. I recently purchased a 2015 Ford Fusion, and the radio is quite amazing. Great sensitivity, fantastic adjacent channel rejection, and clear audio (that goes for both AM and FM). And NO internally generated noise. I didn't expect much since it has the now-obligatory stubby roof-mount antenna, but WOW. TMJ was clear driving down Michigan Avenue in Dearborn with NO CFCO splash.
Didn't want to talk too much about CFCO since it is probably the next Frequency of the Week. I recently purchased a 2015 Ford Fusion, and the radio is quite amazing. Great sensitivity, fantastic adjacent channel rejection, and clear audio (that goes for both AM and FM). And NO internally generated noise. I didn't expect much since it has the now-obligatory stubby roof-mount antenna, but WOW. TMJ was clear driving down Michigan Avenue in Dearborn with NO CFCO splash.
I wish my '13 Focus had a radio as good as yours. FM is great. AM suffers from internally created interference, especially in the lower part of the dial. I have great difficulty hearing WLW, WJR, WKNR and other distant stations on that part of the band here in Columbus during the summer, when the heat hampers the distance AM signals travel. I was even hearing interference under WLW in Dayton the other day, and that should never happen unless you're underneath a bunch of power lines.
Downtown St. Petersburg,FL (zip 33701), WDAE is the strongest AM signal in and around most of St. Pete and with the STA granted them 11.2KW day and 11.0 KW night to combat Cuban interference, it's a good clean strong signal that survives all types of interference, man-made as well as interference during thunderstorms. Ocassionally in the car, I will hear Cuba underneath, but that is very rare and seems to be just in December, January and February and the Cuban station(s) underneath are very weak and WDAE is still very listenable, day and night.
I think 620-WDAE is one of the stronger AM signals in the state; but their tower location just a few feet from being in Tampa Bay, on the causeway connecting Tampa and St. Petersburg, I'm sure helps.
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From the FCC AM query on WDAE 620:
"Accordingly, the request for extension of STA IS HEREBY GRANTED, and station WDAE may continue to operate with increased nominal operating power, not to exceed 11.2 kW day/i 1.0 kW night; and increased antenna input power, not to exceed 11.2 kW day/i 1.6 kW night (per attached nighttime DA specifications). This authority is subject to termination upon reduction of power or cessation of operation by the Cuban facility or upon Commission instruction to WDAE to resume licensed operating parameters per BL-20070612ACM. The field strength at each monitor point must be measured monthly to assure proper operation. It will be necessary to reduce power if interference complaints are received."
I think 620-WDAE is one of the stronger AM signals in the state; but their tower location just a few feet from being in Tampa Bay, on the causeway connecting Tampa and St. Petersburg, I'm sure helps.
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From the FCC AM query on WDAE 620:
"Accordingly, the request for extension of STA IS HEREBY GRANTED, and station WDAE may continue to operate with increased nominal operating power, not to exceed 11.2 kW day/i 1.0 kW night; and increased antenna input power, not to exceed 11.2 kW day/i 1.6 kW night (per attached nighttime DA specifications). This authority is subject to termination upon reduction of power or cessation of operation by the Cuban facility or upon Commission instruction to WDAE to resume licensed operating parameters per BL-20070612ACM. The field strength at each monitor point must be measured monthly to assure proper operation. It will be necessary to reduce power if interference complaints are received."
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