• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

AM Frequency of the week 820

cyberdad

cyberdad

What do you guys hear on 820?

Here in the far northwest suburbs of Chicago, daytime it's 5kw/ND local WCPT. Good signal, but nowhere near the brute force of the local 50kw blowtorches. Generally, WCPT is comfortably listenable for about 100 miles in most directions except east and northeast. Assuming you're in a car or otherwise have a good radio in a good location.

Nghts: WCPT powers down to 1.5 kw, goes directional to the north, and moves to a site about 20 miles farther away from me. The result is that it mixes with WBAP, which is usually stronger. Even so, I can null WBAP and produce a listenable signal from WCPT. And vice versa. CHAM sometimes surfaces, but is more commonly heard in Wisconsin and Michigan.
 
Coincidentally the same as the other board this week: Nothing daytime in East TN, sunsets often bring either WVSG from Ohio or WWBA from Florida
 
In the near north Chicago suburbs I hear WCPT well during the day & much weaker fighting with WBAP at night. In the past during the evening hours I have heard CHAM & right before sunrise in the winter the Tampa station has come in a few times.
 
Warminster PA(Philly 'burbs):

Daytime: WNYC New York(fair-to weak signal)
Night: also WNYC, but a little stronger. Sometimes WBAP overpowers it
 
Days it's WVSG from Columbus OH with a reasonably good signal.

Sunsets can bring WWBA Largo FL, WCPT Willow Springs IL, and once, WTNW in Jasper TN.

Nights, mostly a weak to fair WBAP, or the infrequent, CHAM Hamilton ON. Don't have them on my log, but Cuba, maybe?
 
Here in Pickerington, Ohio, it's local WVSG (ex-WOSU). With 5,000 watts, it's a solid daytime signal that nicely covers a good chunk of Ohio.
At night, WVSG goes to a directional 790 watts that still covers most of the metro nicely, but still leaves some very nasty nulls as close as 2-3 miles southwest of the tower, in the direction of WBAP. It's a fascinating listen to cross the pattern after dark heading out of town. 10-15 miles down I-71 toward Cincinnati, WBAP pretty much owns the channel. The only reason that doesn't happen even closer in is some co-channel flutter because even though WVSG throws almost no signal that way, it does cause interference the closer to Columbus you get.
I'm east of the tower out here, so I can't really null WVSG to hear WBAP, but a few miles farther out of town, that is easily the case as WBAP re-takes the channel.
 
Last edited:
In SE Michigan, it used to be WAIT/WCPT and WOSU/WVSG in the daytime by turning the radio and nulling the other out. When CHAM moved to 820, that added to the mix, making WAIT and WOSU nearly impossible to hear. I imagine that a direction finder might make it easier to get some stations. When they signed off, it was WFAA/WBAP in the early days, and WBAP in later years. In 1968, I remember hearing WFAA/WBAP on a small tube table radio a few miles from the old WAIT transmitter in Elmhurst right after sunset in Grapevine, TX, just BLARING in. I remember that it was 1968, as I then tuned to WLS to hear "Ramblin' Gamblin' Man" by Bob Seger, enjoying his first Top 20 hit outside the Michigan area. Having a copy of a Whitburn publication, as well as referring to ARSA online, is a good way to place old unscoped Aircheck/DX tapes (really the best kind) in time context.
 
Last edited:
SC, I think "Rambling Gamblin Man" reached number 1 on WLS in early 1969. Of course they were playing it in late 68.
Still my favorite Bob Seger song.

(Sorry for the veer)
 
I looked at ARSA, and supposedly "Ramblin' Gamblin' Man" wasn't added to WLS or WCFL for another few weeks. But often I have noticed that they played songs that were in their research radar well before they were listed on the chart. It was already #1 at CKLW at the time (late November, 1968). I remember there was some controversy about the song containing a euphemistic alliterative word, which Dick Clark apparently was worried about if Seger appeared live instead of lip synched on American Bandstand. He wasn't allowed to appear as Seger wouldn't agree to it, and it slowed his ascent to national fame. Seger was first played on WPAG in his childhood home of Ann Arbor ONCE on an acetate release from 1961. He next appeared in 1966 with "East Side Story" on WTAC Flint, which also broke "It Could Be We're In Love" by The Cryan' Shames before WCFL and WLS. ARSA shows the peak of "Ramblin' Gamblin' Man" as #2 on WLS and #1 on WCFL, but they still don't have all surveys on the site. I could go to oldiesloon.com, but right now I'll stick with ARSA.
 
Last edited:
You're right, "Ramblin Gamblin Man" reached #2 on WLS in early March 1969. I remember hearing it for the first time in 1968 in Oklahoma well before WLS or WCFL played it.
Regarding "It Could Be We're In Love" by the Cryan Shames, that record was #1 on both Chicago rockers for almost a month in 1967, but didn't do much nationally which always amazed me. You'd think the power of those 2 stations would have been able to boost that song a bit higher.

Anyway, back to the regularly scheduled "820" discussion.
 
I'll get back to 820 in a circuitous route.

Bob Seger was a DXer of sorts, along with High School classmate and Radio Archivist Art Vuolo. WPAG signed off on 1050 at night, and CKLW, WXYZ, and WKNR changed patterns at night and were not well received in Ann Arbor at night. WHRV/WAAM was the only local station that didn't "run down at sundown". Bob "Dell" DelGiorno was the PD at WTAC Flint at the time these came out, later of WOWO, WIND, WAIT (WAIT, we're back to 820!), WKQX, and finally WWL fame. Along with Grand Funk Railroad cofounder Terry Knight, who sent an audition tape and showed up at WLS's studio in the early 1960s and was told to hone is skills and finish school, Bob Seger, and many others, have alluded to listening to WLS, WCFL, and WLAC in their early days. I have a tape somewhere (DX, it's rough) of Bob DelGiorno on the sign off of WAIT 820!
 
Last edited:
Schroedingers Cat said:
I'll get back to 820 in a circuitous route.

Bob Seger was a DXer of sorts, along with High School classmate and Radio Archivist Art Vuolo. WPAG signed off on 1050 at night, and CKLW, WXYZ, and WKNR changed patterns at night and were not well received in Ann Arbor at night. WHRV/WAAM was the only local station that didn't "run down at sundown". Bob "Dell" DelGiorno was the PD at WTAC Flint at the time these came out, later of WOWO, WIND, WAIT (WAIT, we're back to 820!), WKQX, and finally WWL fame. Along with Grand Funk Railroad cofounder Terry Knight, who sent an audition tape and showed up at WLS's studio in the early 1960s and was told to hone is skills and finish school, Bob Seger, and many others, have alluded to listening to WLS, WCFL, and WLAC in their early days. I have a tape somewhere (DX, it's rough) of Bob DelGiorno on the sign off of WAIT 820!
Click to expand...

I remember first hearing Bob "Dell" on WOWO and then when he came to Chicago he took his real last name. Anyway I thought he did mornings on WAIT 820.
 
Schroedingers Cat said:
In 1968, I remember hearing WFAA/WBAP on a small tube table radio a few miles from the old WAIT transmitter in Elmhurst right after sunset in Grapevine, TX, just BLARING in. I remember that it was 1968, as I then tuned to WLS to hear "Ramblin' Gamblin' Man" by Bob Seger, enjoying his first Top 20 hit outside the Michigan area.
Click to expand...

In 1968, WAIT was a daytimer. Fast forward a dozen or so years later, and WAIT was on at night with 1kw from the "chicken farm" at the edge of Elmhurst with 1kw beamed northeast. I remember one night driving along the Eisenhower Expressway Extension on my way home from somewhere and hearing WAIT being completely overtaken by WAIT while still within sight of the towers in my rearview mirror! My distance at the time couldn't have been more than 2 or 3 miles. Meanwhile, at my location in McHenry county, there was still enough left of WAIT that you could null WBAP and get a listenable signal. Not unlike now.

As for Seeger, The Shames, etc. etc. While they were getting airplay on WLS, WCFL, CKLW, etc., WAIT was giving us "The World's Most Beautiful Music". Hosted by the likes of Ken Alexander, (and, IIRC, others including at times Dick Buckley, John Doremus, and Ken Nordine).
 
Didn't the pattern with 1 kW from Elmhurst have a very wide major lobe to hit more of Chicago, the COL? I think the towers were quite widely spaced >>90 degrees to produce that. Wasn't the original application turned in YEARS before it was allowable to operate at night, on the condition that it be granted immediately on a rule change that would permit it? Then it might not have had a night NIF requirement or it was waived. With such strong interference from WBAP, it would have otherwise had to change COL the first time. The second time they had to go to Willow Springs.

As far as Bob Dell on the WAIT signoff cart, it may or may not have been him. It DID refer to his morning show by name (Bob DelGiorno) for sure. He did indeed change to DelGiorno on the air when he went from WOWO to WIND, which were both owned by Westinghouse at the time.
 
Just to put this in time perspective, I think Bob DelGiorno was on WAIT some time in the late 1970s. I think he was at WIND in the early 1970s. Here is a chart for the Top 56 Of 1975 from WIND with the air personality schedule. The reason the survey itself is not shown is it was probably typed as an in house survey and nothing particularly interesting about it. A lot of Hot AC type stations of the era were doing this, and it appears that there might have been some cooperation on this apparent one time year end survey with earlier colleagues Bill Hennes (and later at WMAQ/WKQX) and Bill Pearson, who produced a very similar year end survey at WTRX in 1975 (John Landecker was there in 1966!).

http://www.las-solanas.com/arsa/charts_view.php?svid=37963
 
Last edited:
From San Antonio:

Daytime - Heavy splatter from 810 KYTY. Tuning 2-3 kHz up and nulling KYTY to reduce the splatter allows WBAP to be heard weakly. It's somewhat understandable on my CC-2E and RF-2200.

Nighttime - The splatter is diminished, and WBAP is fairly strong in the null of KYTY. XEBA, La Consentida in Guadalajara, can sometimes be heard in the background and has bubbled up enough for an ID on location. I've also heard another Mexico (presumed) station in the background that I haven't IDed yet.
 
No real DX for me in Frederick, MD with WWFD "The Gamut" in my backyard (4300w day/430w night). I'll forgive it though since the channel runs a nice eclectic music format. Sometimes during a quiet period I'll hear country music (prob old CHAM) or talk radio (likely WBAP) murmuring in the background

https://www.facebook.com/thegamut
 
Schroedingers Cat said:
Didn't the pattern with 1 kW from Elmhurst have a very wide major lobe to hit more of Chicago, the COL? I think the towers were quite widely spaced >>90 degrees to produce that. Wasn't the original application turned in YEARS before it was allowable to operate at night, on the condition that it be granted immediately on a rule change that would permit it? Then it might not have had a night NIF requirement or it was waived. With such strong interference from WBAP, it would have otherwise had to change COL the first time. The second time they had to go to Willow Springs.

As far as Bob Dell on the WAIT signoff cart, it may or may not have been him. It DID refer to his morning show by name (Bob DelGiorno) for sure. He did indeed change to DelGiorno on the air when he went from WOWO to WIND, which were both owned by Westinghouse at the time.
Click to expand...

What I remember about WAIT's night pattern for 1kw from Elmhurst are two things. First, they made an announcement when they powered down, that due to federal regulations, they were reducing power and beaming the signal to the northeast (specifically mentioning that direction). Secondly, I recall a few nights in the early 1980s where I was staying at a home on the northwest side of Chicago while a family member was recovering from surgery. From a listenability standpoint, WAIT was marginal, with WBAP clearly audible underneath. Compared to where my home was...and still is...WAIT had a better signal, but at that location in the city, it was more difficult to null.

As for Bob Del Giorno, I mostly remember him at WIND. I know he was also at WAIT, but I have no specific memory of him there. He also worked for a couple of weeks between gigs at what is now WAIT (on 850....no connection with the original other than being co-owned with WCPT, the current call letters on 820). Anyway, what's now WAIT was then WIVS, owned by Mal Bellairs. Either Mal or his son Jerry hired Del Giorno, undoubtedly with the understanding that it could be on a temporary basis. This would have been 1977-ish. I remember it because I was also working at WIVS for Mal and Jerry at the time. (Two good guys to work for, btw). Del Giorno was at WIVS for such a brief period that I actually never met him. I was fulltime sales, with occasional production chores on the side, and mostly worked out of my home. I don't recall whether it was WAIT or WWL where Bob landed when he left us.

Got all that? :)
 
Last edited:
88

I called WAIT 820 once and asked some questions about the new at the time Elmhurst array. They said it was oriented at 38 degrees true. From I-294, it looked to me like the towers were at 120-135 degrees in height and spacing, suggesting that would have had maxima off axis and possibly less IDF at 38 degrees. The wide lobe would also serve the COL better. Of course, the nulls were off the back, centering around 218 degrees. A 1-3-3-1 binomial design would allow up to six nulls in symmetrical directions around the axis of the towers off the back to protect WBAP, or all six coinciding into a single null at 218 degrees, depending on phasing and field ratios. Vectorially, the center two towers would act as three towers each at the same location. I doubt if they could serve much more than Bensenville from there with 1 kW with a required NIF contour, especially with old skywave curves when the application was submitted. I questioned the person who answered the call about this, but they didn't understand.

Bob DelGiorno retired a few years ago from WWL, after spending most of career there. He is mainly involved in Sportsman's Shows now.
 
Last edited:
Yep. Bob was the morning host at WWL for many years. 820 here is a weak Tampa, FL daytime. A long distance from Charleston. Over the FL peninsula then the Atlantic. WBAP comes in mostly at night along with a few other stations.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom