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AM HD isn't "Critical"?
- Thread starter clouseau
- Start date
It was opined (not by Bill O'Reilly ;D) on the NYRMB that I-CRAP
is shut down by WABC at 2:45 ET due to atmospherics this time
of year where the skywave signal starts coming into play during
"critical hours."
Next step (yeah, right)--CBS to do the same thing with WBZ,
KDKA and anywhere else their co-owneds are "hash-trashing"
each other.
After that (we can only hope)--everyone shuts down I-CRAP
totally!
is shut down by WABC at 2:45 ET due to atmospherics this time
of year where the skywave signal starts coming into play during
"critical hours."
Next step (yeah, right)--CBS to do the same thing with WBZ,
KDKA and anywhere else their co-owneds are "hash-trashing"
each other.
After that (we can only hope)--everyone shuts down I-CRAP
totally!
WLS AM 890 in Chicago has been shutting off HD one hour before local sunset since Citadel
mandated the nightime shutoff of HD exciters nationwide. Prior to November they were also
turning it back on one hour before local sunrise. It is different this month though, they are
not turning it back on until sunrise. There must be one or two listeners out there that are
very upset about this. ;D
mandated the nightime shutoff of HD exciters nationwide. Prior to November they were also
turning it back on one hour before local sunrise. It is different this month though, they are
not turning it back on until sunrise. There must be one or two listeners out there that are
very upset about this. ;D
Yeah, one of which is probably Strew-Bull....
I think that the selective on-off of IBOC depends on mutual interference among co-owned stations and where those stations are located relative to each other.
As you head east, you add 20 minutes to the clock for every 100 miles. In the case of WYSL, whose IBOC tormentor is WBZ (approximately 350 miles due east, 97 degree bearing true) Boston's local sunset - and skywave propagation - begins about an hour earlier than it does locally. In December we start getting severe skywave HD noise as early as 3pm. The good news is, WBZ goes away about an hour earlier in morning drive. But co-channel from WHO lingers (albeit far less objectionable, being analog in type.)
In Citadel's case, the WABC 2:45pm shutdown (beginning of November Critical Hours in the east) is likely done to protect WJR which is located a similar distance west of Lodi, NJ.
"HD - makes 'AM sound like FM!' For FIVE hours a day in the winter! Hurry up and plunk down that C-note for your swell HD receiver, now!"
I think that the selective on-off of IBOC depends on mutual interference among co-owned stations and where those stations are located relative to each other.
As you head east, you add 20 minutes to the clock for every 100 miles. In the case of WYSL, whose IBOC tormentor is WBZ (approximately 350 miles due east, 97 degree bearing true) Boston's local sunset - and skywave propagation - begins about an hour earlier than it does locally. In December we start getting severe skywave HD noise as early as 3pm. The good news is, WBZ goes away about an hour earlier in morning drive. But co-channel from WHO lingers (albeit far less objectionable, being analog in type.)
In Citadel's case, the WABC 2:45pm shutdown (beginning of November Critical Hours in the east) is likely done to protect WJR which is located a similar distance west of Lodi, NJ.
"HD - makes 'AM sound like FM!' For FIVE hours a day in the winter! Hurry up and plunk down that C-note for your swell HD receiver, now!"
John Holcomb II said:
Try tuning to 1040, if you hear the gently lulling sound of sleep inducing hiss that sounds like Niagara Falls during a bad rain storm, it would be from WBZ 1030 which is about 500 miles from you I would imagine. It would be covering WHO or WSYL if you can get them there, that might be about 500 miles from you, try it more than one night, try some Chicago stations. I cannot get WBZ to lock at all from 40 miles by the way even with a 400 foot long wire antenna but it's side bands are terrible here on a car radio.
Here's a list of all IBOC AM stations on at night, tune 10 kHz up and down from them, see what you hear:
http://topazdesigns.com/iboc/station-list.html
I've had WCKY Cincinnati 1530 interfere with WWKB NY 1520 before especially at sunset, completely cover it up and that's farther than 5000 miles from here.
I'm not sure how far WQEW 1560 NY is from me but it almost completely covers 1545 to 1575 here most nights.
1000-1040 on some nights is a constantly changing, trading hiss fest here in MA with WINS 1010 dominating many nights covering KDKA 1020, also WBZ covers KDKA here, the Chicago station on 1000 even hisses here sometimes although WINS is usually a lot stronger, can hear it on 990 though, it's a mess. WHO seems to hiss a little bit here too although it's not usual, which is I think about a thousand miles from here.
WABC shouldn't have any problem with WJR anymore as WJR shut-off it's IBOC hardware for good - dead, gone, DOA, toast.
R
rbrucecarter5
Guest
John Holcomb II said:
More like 1000 miles - in the DAYTIME. Ordinary car radio in very remote areas of the west. My daughter may go out to LA for the summer filming season again, and if so, I will shoot some video absolutely proving this. There are not that many IBOC stations, having sideband pairs from the Chicago 50 kW stations in a rest area between Clayton and Raton NM was dramatic and unexpected. Possibly WJR as well. They were gone by Western AZ, but other things like KOA were still very pronounced.
At night, I have never received WOR because of stations in Kansas City, Shreveport, and Amarillo. But I hear WOR's sideband pairs - AND can null them when I null towards New York. The staying power of the HD sidebands is astonishing, and a listener in Australia with an HD radio reports sporadic instances of the HD indicator coming on - and a good portion of the signal has to be in daylight. There is also virtually no possibility of false trigger of an HD indicator.
Amazing stuff. The carriers are very robust, but the system unreliable.
:
the hissing you are hearing is not WMVP. I don't know if they are still trying to make it work, but, as of now they are HD free
I also found something that was rather funny. The fact that WSCR 670 AM turns off their I Block during games. I know they do it
so fan's at the stadium can hear the game in real time which makes perfect sense, the funny part is that the HD radio folks pushed
this warped technology saying that you could hear sporting events in glorious HD sound. That worked well :
I don't think that list is completely accurate. I know that WMVP AM 1000 rebuilt their three towers earlier this year. They had wanted to install HD, but they were unable to do so because of a problem meshing it with their directional antenna system. SoKB1OKL said:
the hissing you are hearing is not WMVP. I don't know if they are still trying to make it work, but, as of now they are HD free
I also found something that was rather funny. The fact that WSCR 670 AM turns off their I Block during games. I know they do it
so fan's at the stadium can hear the game in real time which makes perfect sense, the funny part is that the HD radio folks pushed
this warped technology saying that you could hear sporting events in glorious HD sound. That worked well :
You are correct, TR1992. The design of the former WCFL's array produces critical pattern bandwidth issues. In analog operation the very deep nulls generate few problems, but the system will just not work with HD. The self-interference would be horrible. So rather than spend $3 million or so to rebuild WMVP's phasor and LTUs they opted not to attempt IBOC.
Wow, who saw THAT coming?? :
Wow, who saw THAT coming?? :
John Holcomb II said:
Haven't tried any station 500 miles away, but here in Phoenix, the IBOC hash from KNX/1070 Los Angeles (370 miles away from my location on the SE side of the city), wipes out local KDUS/1060. To be fair, KDUS runs only 500 watts at night, and has a deep null to my part of town, but this still shouldn't happen. I live only 3 miles SW of their towers!
iboc, obsolete out of the box.. What a joke!
I've got some bad news for you Mr. Savage(I should have kept my big mouth shut :TR1992 said::I don't think that list is completely accurate. I know that WMVP AM 1000 rebuilt their three towers earlier this year. They had wanted to install HD, but they were unable to do so because of a problem meshing it with their directional antenna system. SoKB1OKL said:
the hissing you are hearing is not WMVP. I don't know if they are still trying to make it work, but, as of now they are HD free
I also found something that was rather funny. The fact that WSCR 670 AM turns off their I Block during games. I know they do it
so fan's at the stadium can hear the game in real time which makes perfect sense, the funny part is that the HD radio folks pushed
this warped technology saying that you could hear sporting events in glorious HD sound. That worked well :
) I turned on WMVP AM 1000tonight and guess what? I heard the hiss, WMVP has fired up HD. I just happened to be flipping through the dial and when
I got to 980 I heard the hash. It is 11:45 PM CDT right now and it's running. I don't know if they are just testing it or not, but,
the sound is awful. I'll leave on a positive note though, WGN AM 720 is running for the first time with the HD off, I was able to
null out WGN just enough to pick up WOR in New York. I have not been able to DX AM 710 in a long time.
Yes, I'm in Chicago and I could not believe it myself! I heard it first on my Sony Walkman and I(as much as I hate to admit it),Savage said:
last year I shelled out about 200 big ones and bought an HD radio because I really wanted to be able to hear what it sounded like before
I formed a definitive opinion. I'm sure by now you can guess my opinion on this "technology". So I went to the HD radio and turned it
on, waited for it to lock in and the display changed from AM 1000 to WMVP and then the sound changed from analog to HD.
On a sidenote WMVP is not a Citadel station, it is owned by Disney. When Citadel bought the Chicago stations, they bought WLS AM 890
and WZZN FM 94.7(now WLS FM). Disney kept WMVP and WRDZ AM 1300(which has been in HD for a little over a year now and at night
I can't lock in their HD just about 3 miles east of the six tower array).
Mr. Savage, that was a very good question because I completely understand why you asked it. Like you and I discussed they would
have a lot of problems trying to install HD on the station because of their directional system. I didn't think it would happen especially
because more and more AM's are shutting it off, at least at night.
There is another station here in Chicago WNTD AM 1200 which is running in HD, with a 4 tower daytime array and an 8 tower nightime
array, with a lot of nulls in their directional patterns. They signed on as a new station in the middle to late 80's as a Spanish Pop
station and tried everything to get AM stereo to work with their patterns as they were a music station. They finally gave up and said
there was no way they could work it out. I wish you could here how bad their signal is at night. I am a few miles west of their site
and I can barely hear the analog signal at night because of their self inflicted interference. I wonder if the managers of these stations
have ever listened to how bad these stations sound. This station never had a great sound in my area at night, but, since the inception
of the HD, it barely audible to the human ear!
Best Regards
TR1992
Yes, it's true. WMVP 1000 is now hissing.
And somehow, WGN is not. I listened quite a while today on my drive to darkest Wisconsin.
I wonder what broke at WGN? Just the regular iboc breakdowns, I suppose.
It's just a glorified one-way modem, fer pete's sake.
Maybe when I get home tomorrow I'll see if 1000 decodes at home in Chicago.
Now where did I put that Accurian HD receiver?
And somehow, WGN is not. I listened quite a while today on my drive to darkest Wisconsin.
I wonder what broke at WGN? Just the regular iboc breakdowns, I suppose.
It's just a glorified one-way modem, fer pete's sake.
Maybe when I get home tomorrow I'll see if 1000 decodes at home in Chicago.
Now where did I put that Accurian HD receiver?
I made a mistake in my last post. The call letters for AM 1200 are WRTO, WNTD are the call letters for AM 950... :TR1992 said:
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