The more I learn about HD, the more I'm convinced it will work for FM. But AM may be a different story. Don't get me wrong, I think the all-digital mode will work fine, but I see the hybrid mode for the graveyard stations as being chaotic. Heck, the graveyard frequencies are already chaotic for analog! However, as messy as AM IBOC will be, it is a necessary step to to get to the all-digital mode. The pace of reaching the AM all-digital mode, however, should be sped up by the large radio conglomerates and the FCC. For instance, in a previous post, I mentioned the possibility of the graveyard stations going to FM on some of the 2nd, 3rd ...ect streams because their range would likely be increased and their audio would be vastly improved-especially in areas where the audio sounds choppy from the co-channel interference. As HD radio gains popularity, this should be encouraged. Then at some point, the FCC could resignate the current AM graveyard frequencies as all-digital. The optimum power and spacing could be determined later after field testing is performed. Then the regional channels could follow suit. In a nutshell, I believe the AM band for analog should be methodically shrunk out of existance and the graveyard channels are a good place to start.
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AM HD radio
- Thread starter Len14043
- Start date
HD Radio-A different view.
The problem is, that the HD radio iBiquity NRSC-5a system on both AM and FM is severly flawed, jams other stations, and a better, more compatible system should be adopted. Now is the time for the public and the FCC to make that decision, before final approval. We will all have to live with our decision for a very long time, and the conversion will be costly. In spite of what the radio cartel claims, the AM and FM bands are the public's airwaves, broadcasters are only temporary licensees.
HD radio on AM:
Only works within a few miles of the transmitting tower.
Jams adjacent channel stations in the daytime.
With present AM channel assignments, is virtually unuseable at night.
Creates digital hiss on most existing analog recievers that can not be tuned out.
Will cut AM fidelity in half from 10 kHz to 5 kHz, and reduce the signal to noise ratio also.
Needs an external outside antenna execept when you are very close to the transmitting tower. (For most AM stations, if you can't see the tower, you will probably need and external antenna).
Provides digital jamming hiss instead of secondary coverage.
And the FM HD radio system is almost as bad.
Your suggestion that everyone buy new radios for the new hybrid transitional system, and then, again, buy or reprogram the radios and transmitters for the the all digital system later, is expensive, impractical, wasteful, unworkable, unaceptable (to the public) and foolish.
Why not just adapt a truly compatible and much less expensive system that exists now for FM, such as FM eXtra (www.dreinc.com) and hold off on the final approval on adaopting an AM digital system until a truly compatible, workable alternative materializes and is proven.
More information is available at:
http://worldsupercaster.blogspot.com
The problem is, that the HD radio iBiquity NRSC-5a system on both AM and FM is severly flawed, jams other stations, and a better, more compatible system should be adopted. Now is the time for the public and the FCC to make that decision, before final approval. We will all have to live with our decision for a very long time, and the conversion will be costly. In spite of what the radio cartel claims, the AM and FM bands are the public's airwaves, broadcasters are only temporary licensees.
HD radio on AM:
Only works within a few miles of the transmitting tower.
Jams adjacent channel stations in the daytime.
With present AM channel assignments, is virtually unuseable at night.
Creates digital hiss on most existing analog recievers that can not be tuned out.
Will cut AM fidelity in half from 10 kHz to 5 kHz, and reduce the signal to noise ratio also.
Needs an external outside antenna execept when you are very close to the transmitting tower. (For most AM stations, if you can't see the tower, you will probably need and external antenna).
Provides digital jamming hiss instead of secondary coverage.
And the FM HD radio system is almost as bad.
Your suggestion that everyone buy new radios for the new hybrid transitional system, and then, again, buy or reprogram the radios and transmitters for the the all digital system later, is expensive, impractical, wasteful, unworkable, unaceptable (to the public) and foolish.
Why not just adapt a truly compatible and much less expensive system that exists now for FM, such as FM eXtra (www.dreinc.com) and hold off on the final approval on adaopting an AM digital system until a truly compatible, workable alternative materializes and is proven.
More information is available at:
http://worldsupercaster.blogspot.com
R
RadioDoc
Guest
Re: HD Radio-A different view.
Still can't provide any hard data to back up your claims, eh?<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
Still can't provide any hard data to back up your claims, eh?<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
Re: HD Radio-A different view.
> The problem is, that the HD radio iBiquity NRSC-5a system on
> both AM and FM is severly flawed, jams other stations, and a
> better, more compatible system should be adopted.
Based on the reports I'm hearing, FM seems to be working very well. The jamming caused to FM stations would be noticed only by DXers. The general public generally doesn't listen to FM at the 40-50 dBu level. For AM, the jamming to ajacient signals occurs in areas where you would instead hear chatter from an analog only station. Again, that may be a problem for DXers, but most people do not listen to AM at the 0.5 mv/m level.
> HD radio on AM:
> Only works within a few miles of the transmitting tower.
> Jams adjacent channel stations in the daytime.
I bet WLW puts a digital signal at least 50 miles from the tower. You are right in that IBOC will work only within a few miles of some AM stations, but isn't that the case right now with the graveyard frequencies?
> Creates digital hiss on most existing analog recievers that
> can not be tuned out.
That is patently false! I recently traveled to Denver where most of their AM stations were broadcasting in IBOC. After I set the buttons on the radio of my rental car, I had not trouble receiving the stations and there was no hiss.
> Will cut AM fidelity in half from 10 kHz to 5 kHz, and
> reduce the signal to noise ratio also.
All the Clear Channel stations cut their bandwidth to 5khz. In fact, I didn't realize WLW was using 5khz until I read about it. And I listen to them often. But even if the fidelity was noticably reduced, so what! Isn't it the aim of IBOC system to transition to digital?
> Needs an external outside antenna execept when you are very
> close to the transmitting tower. (For most AM stations, if
> you can't see the tower, you will probably need and external
> antenna).
You are right. Many of the AM stations are on the graveyard frequencies and I doubt you will be able to hear the digital signal at night unless you are under the tower, as is the case in analog. Can you actually say that these stations wouldn't be better off on HD-2s and HD-3s in the future?
> Provides digital jamming hiss instead of secondary coverage.
Again, digital hiss substites the monkey chatter in the secondary coverage area.
> Your suggestion that everyone buy new radios for the new
> hybrid transitional system, and then, again, buy or
> reprogram the radios and transmitters for the the all
> digital system later, is expensive, impractical, wasteful,
> unworkable, unaceptable (to the public) and foolish.
The same argument could be made for computers, cars etc. When the compact disc player came onto the scene, what happened to all those record players? Sorry, technology evolves and things become obsolete. Heck, I'll probably need a new computer in a few years. A computer costs hundreds. Most of the obsolete radios will likely be under $50.
> The problem is, that the HD radio iBiquity NRSC-5a system on
> both AM and FM is severly flawed, jams other stations, and a
> better, more compatible system should be adopted.
Based on the reports I'm hearing, FM seems to be working very well. The jamming caused to FM stations would be noticed only by DXers. The general public generally doesn't listen to FM at the 40-50 dBu level. For AM, the jamming to ajacient signals occurs in areas where you would instead hear chatter from an analog only station. Again, that may be a problem for DXers, but most people do not listen to AM at the 0.5 mv/m level.
> HD radio on AM:
> Only works within a few miles of the transmitting tower.
> Jams adjacent channel stations in the daytime.
I bet WLW puts a digital signal at least 50 miles from the tower. You are right in that IBOC will work only within a few miles of some AM stations, but isn't that the case right now with the graveyard frequencies?
> Creates digital hiss on most existing analog recievers that
> can not be tuned out.
That is patently false! I recently traveled to Denver where most of their AM stations were broadcasting in IBOC. After I set the buttons on the radio of my rental car, I had not trouble receiving the stations and there was no hiss.
> Will cut AM fidelity in half from 10 kHz to 5 kHz, and
> reduce the signal to noise ratio also.
All the Clear Channel stations cut their bandwidth to 5khz. In fact, I didn't realize WLW was using 5khz until I read about it. And I listen to them often. But even if the fidelity was noticably reduced, so what! Isn't it the aim of IBOC system to transition to digital?
> Needs an external outside antenna execept when you are very
> close to the transmitting tower. (For most AM stations, if
> you can't see the tower, you will probably need and external
> antenna).
You are right. Many of the AM stations are on the graveyard frequencies and I doubt you will be able to hear the digital signal at night unless you are under the tower, as is the case in analog. Can you actually say that these stations wouldn't be better off on HD-2s and HD-3s in the future?
> Provides digital jamming hiss instead of secondary coverage.
Again, digital hiss substites the monkey chatter in the secondary coverage area.
> Your suggestion that everyone buy new radios for the new
> hybrid transitional system, and then, again, buy or
> reprogram the radios and transmitters for the the all
> digital system later, is expensive, impractical, wasteful,
> unworkable, unaceptable (to the public) and foolish.
The same argument could be made for computers, cars etc. When the compact disc player came onto the scene, what happened to all those record players? Sorry, technology evolves and things become obsolete. Heck, I'll probably need a new computer in a few years. A computer costs hundreds. Most of the obsolete radios will likely be under $50.
K
k9ez
Guest
Re: HD Radio-A different view.
Here we go again. You obvisouly have had no time listening nor any real life research on this. But taking a few talking points...... and I continue.....
> The problem is, that the HD radio iBiquity NRSC-5a system on
> both AM and FM is severly flawed, jams other stations, and a
> better, more compatible system should be adopted. Now is the
> time for the public and the FCC to make that decision,
> before final approval. We will all have to live with our
> decision for a very long time, and the conversion will be
> costly. In spite of what the radio cartel claims, the AM and
> FM bands are the public's airwaves, broadcasters are only
> temporary licensees.
> HD radio on AM:
> Only works within a few miles of the transmitting tower.
HUH, I am able to pick up some AM HD stations 90 miles away. Kind of shoots your info down doesnt it???
> Jams adjacent channel stations in the daytime.
Adjacents are lined up to not be listenable during the day. Even if there were adjacents, they would be covered by the analog splatter.
> With present AM channel assignments, is virtually unuseable
> at night.
So far you may be right.
> Creates digital hiss on most existing analog recievers that
> can not be tuned out.
Oh really? I cant hear any hiss on FM, and only the widest AM receivers have any hiss. There are very few out there. Trust me I haev been looking and listening.
> Will cut AM fidelity in half from 10 kHz to 5 kHz, and
> reduce the signal to noise ratio also.
Most stations are already at 5kHz. Though I am a big AM lsitener and would prefer the 10kHz, most people never even noticed the change.
> Needs an external outside antenna execept when you are very
> close to the transmitting tower. (For most AM stations, if
> you can't see the tower, you will probably need and external
> antenna).
Completely false! You obviously have never listened to an HD station. I am getting my local HD station 40+ miles out. Again, I am receiving AMs at 90 miles out. FMs at about 40-50 miles with a Class B.
> Provides digital jamming hiss instead of secondary coverage.
How so? Please explain this. Also, the FCC does not guarrantee secondary coveerage.
>
> And the FM HD radio system is almost as bad.
Explain this. How is the FM part as bad? Be ready to support your agruments here. I know I am ready. You cannot just go and make blanket statements without some support.
> Your suggestion that everyone buy new radios for the new
> hybrid transitional system, and then, again, buy or
> reprogram the radios and transmitters for the the all
> digital system later, is expensive, impractical, wasteful,
> unworkable, unaceptable (to the public) and foolish.
When (and it will be a while) the system goes all digital you dont need to buy anything new. Your HD Radio will cover all of the totally digital stations. I have a reciver now that has HD1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 all ready to go.
> Why not just adapt a truly compatible and much less
> expensive system that exists now for FM, such as FM eXtra
> (www.dreinc.com) and hold off on the final approval on
> adaopting an AM digital system until a truly compatible,
> workable alternative materializes and is proven.
> More information is available at:
> http://worldsupercaster.blogspot.com
>
I dont read bloggers. Why should I? A bunch of folks putting down whatever they feel like without feeling the need to support their statements?? No Thanks.
Here we go again. You obvisouly have had no time listening nor any real life research on this. But taking a few talking points...... and I continue.....
> The problem is, that the HD radio iBiquity NRSC-5a system on
> both AM and FM is severly flawed, jams other stations, and a
> better, more compatible system should be adopted. Now is the
> time for the public and the FCC to make that decision,
> before final approval. We will all have to live with our
> decision for a very long time, and the conversion will be
> costly. In spite of what the radio cartel claims, the AM and
> FM bands are the public's airwaves, broadcasters are only
> temporary licensees.
> HD radio on AM:
> Only works within a few miles of the transmitting tower.
HUH, I am able to pick up some AM HD stations 90 miles away. Kind of shoots your info down doesnt it???
> Jams adjacent channel stations in the daytime.
Adjacents are lined up to not be listenable during the day. Even if there were adjacents, they would be covered by the analog splatter.
> With present AM channel assignments, is virtually unuseable
> at night.
So far you may be right.
> Creates digital hiss on most existing analog recievers that
> can not be tuned out.
Oh really? I cant hear any hiss on FM, and only the widest AM receivers have any hiss. There are very few out there. Trust me I haev been looking and listening.
> Will cut AM fidelity in half from 10 kHz to 5 kHz, and
> reduce the signal to noise ratio also.
Most stations are already at 5kHz. Though I am a big AM lsitener and would prefer the 10kHz, most people never even noticed the change.
> Needs an external outside antenna execept when you are very
> close to the transmitting tower. (For most AM stations, if
> you can't see the tower, you will probably need and external
> antenna).
Completely false! You obviously have never listened to an HD station. I am getting my local HD station 40+ miles out. Again, I am receiving AMs at 90 miles out. FMs at about 40-50 miles with a Class B.
> Provides digital jamming hiss instead of secondary coverage.
How so? Please explain this. Also, the FCC does not guarrantee secondary coveerage.
>
> And the FM HD radio system is almost as bad.
Explain this. How is the FM part as bad? Be ready to support your agruments here. I know I am ready. You cannot just go and make blanket statements without some support.
> Your suggestion that everyone buy new radios for the new
> hybrid transitional system, and then, again, buy or
> reprogram the radios and transmitters for the the all
> digital system later, is expensive, impractical, wasteful,
> unworkable, unaceptable (to the public) and foolish.
When (and it will be a while) the system goes all digital you dont need to buy anything new. Your HD Radio will cover all of the totally digital stations. I have a reciver now that has HD1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 all ready to go.
> Why not just adapt a truly compatible and much less
> expensive system that exists now for FM, such as FM eXtra
> (www.dreinc.com) and hold off on the final approval on
> adaopting an AM digital system until a truly compatible,
> workable alternative materializes and is proven.
> More information is available at:
> http://worldsupercaster.blogspot.com
>
I dont read bloggers. Why should I? A bunch of folks putting down whatever they feel like without feeling the need to support their statements?? No Thanks.
Re: HD Radio-A different view.
I'm in the Houston area and easily receive the class "C" FMs' HD service 75+ miles out of town. I have ZERO complaints about the IBOC stations here so far.
I'm in the Houston area and easily receive the class "C" FMs' HD service 75+ miles out of town. I have ZERO complaints about the IBOC stations here so far.
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