AM HD Radios receive C-Quam AM Stereo!

[wnmb]

Mike, I met Dave some years ago just briefly. He is a great broadcaster. As to the HD Radio, not a single Radio Shack store has one anywhere on the Grand Strand, or within a 75 mile radius of here. So I got on the phone and found one at a Radio Shack in Chapel Hill. It is being sent overnight and I will have it by 2 p.m. Saturday. I can't wait to see if it is really going to decode and play my AM Stereo. If so, I will post or send you an mp3 file. If this is truly the case, and I believe what I've heard from these other files, it's great news!

 

[Black_Shire]

Mike, I met Dave some years ago just briefly. He is a great broadcaster. As to the HD Radio, not a single Radio Shack store has one anywhere on the Grand Strand, or within a 75 mile radius of here. So I got on the phone and found one at a Radio Shack in Chapel Hill. It is being sent overnight and I will have it by 2 p.m. Saturday. I can't wait to see if it is really going to decode and play my AM Stereo. If so, I will post or send you an mp3 file. If this is truly the case, and I believe what I've heard from these other files, it's great news!

Bill, please do post your C-QUAM AM Stereo reception results with it. I'm in Fairbanks, Alaska, and there is an AM Stereo station (KIAM 630) forty-seven miles away in Nenana, which comes in pretty well on my mono AM receivers. If you have good results with the Accurian, I'll try one myself to get KIAM in AM Stereo.


-- Black Shire

 

[Mike Walker]

Dave is indeed a great broadcaster. And a great person. Little did I know when I went to work for him in 1980 that I was getting not just an employer for four years, but a friend for life!

I look forward to your mp3 file(s)!

 

[wnmb]

My Radio Shack HD unit arrived this morning. It is now sitting on the table in our den playing C-Quam AM Stereo from WNMB. There is no doubt. The separation is evident, and I am listening to a lot of signal. I will be going to the Radio Station later today and will make an MP3. I am no HD radio fan, but it is indeed very exciting to hear the AM Stereo coming from this unit! Bill. 8)

 

[700WLW]

My Radio Shack HD unit arrived this morning. It is now sitting on the table in our den playing C-Quam AM Stereo from WNMB. There is no doubt. The separation is evident, and I am listening to a lot of signal. I will be going to the Radio Station later today and will make an MP3. I am no HD radio fan, but it is indeed very exciting to hear the AM Stereo coming from this unit! Bill. 8)

Yea, maybe I'll get one too, then I could listen to Scott Sloan WLW in stereo ! I'll have to order my HD radio on-line from Circuit City (they don't have any in-store, and after going over there yesterday, I saw that they had yanked most of the table-top AM/FM units from the shelves, including the non-HD Receptor, but they had tons of Sony pocket-radios) - I'de go to our local Radio Shack, but most things are way over-priced, and we have one of Radio Shack's unscrupulous jerks, who tries to sell you everything you don't need, and always talks-down, in the process.

 

[Black_Shire]

My Radio Shack HD unit arrived this morning. It is now sitting on the table in our den playing C-Quam AM Stereo from WNMB. There is no doubt. The separation is evident, and I am listening to a lot of signal. I will be going to the Radio Station later today and will make an MP3. I am no HD radio fan, but it is indeed very exciting to hear the AM Stereo coming from this unit! Bill. 8)

Bill, I thank you very much for posting this good news! A question: What kind of external AM antenna (if any) does it have? If it has the common small un-tuned loop on the plastic frame, I may need to home-brew a tuned box loop or edge-wound "diamond" loop to pull in KIAM 630's AM Stereo signal from 47 miles away (our ground conductivity isn't great here).


-- Black Shire

 

[wnmb]

I am going to paste here a link to the AM Stereo forum on Yahoo where I uploaded the mp3 of about a one minute aircheck this morning from WNMB. It was recorded from my just arrived Accurian HD Radio. I don't think the pasted link will stay active once I shut down my computer and I don't seem to have a way to load the mp3 directly to this forum. Is there one of you I can e-mail it to and get you to post it here?
The Accurian was sitting in my production room. Our studios are located about a dozen miles from the transmitter and antenna site, and the production room is full of computers. That having been said, the audio was pretty decent and it is clearly playing AM Stereo.

here's the Yahoo link:

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EJuWRf...UJS1ixM1uILarYwLSOpM/Accurian HD 12 30 06.mp3

 

[wnmb]

The AM Antenna on my Accurian is simply the little untuned loop covered in plastic.

We broadcast with 500 watts using a Harris Gates One, Delta AM Stereo generator, and Optimod 9100B processor.
From the studios we got the transmiiter site (about 12 miles away) on an Armstrong Digital STL. (currently using analog settings)

 

[Black_Shire]

The AM Antenna on my Accurian is simply the little untuned loop covered in plastic.

We broadcast with 500 watts using a Harris Gates One, Delta AM Stereo generator, and Optimod 9100B processor.
From the studios we got the transmiiter site (about 12 miles away) on an Armstrong Digital STL. (currently using analog settings)

I thank you very much for this information. On second thought, the untuned loop may actually work for my application because all of my radios (even the pocket receivers) get KIAM in mono pretty well using just their internal ferrite loopstick antennas.

I wish I could help you with posting the WNMB mp3 file, but I know just enough about computers to be dangerous!


-- Black Shire

 

[Chuck]

I am going to paste here a link to the AM Stereo forum on Yahoo where I uploaded the mp3 of about a one minute aircheck this morning from WNMB. It was recorded from my just arrived Accurian HD Radio. I don't think the pasted link will stay active once I shut down my computer and I don't seem to have a way to load the mp3 directly to this forum. Is there one of you I can e-mail it to and get you to post it here?
The Accurian was sitting in my production room. Our studios are located about a dozen miles from the transmitter and antenna site, and the production room is full of computers. That having been said, the audio was pretty decent and it is clearly playing AM Stereo.

here's the Yahoo link:

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EJuWRf...UJS1ixM1uILarYwLSOpM/Accurian HD 12 30 06.mp3

That sounds better than many web streams and has nice stereo imaging. I may have to get one of those radios the next time they offfer them for $99.00.

 

[Black_Shire]

Bill, that sample sounded sweet! I plugged a set of earbuds into my old laptop computer here, and I was delighted by the warm, rich AM sound with excellent stereo separation.

I hear that Clear Channel is selling KFBX 970 AM here in Fairbanks. Would you all be interested in buying it? (The relatively "fat" tower should have ample bandwidth for C-QUAM AM Stereo.) We haven't had an AM music station here since KCBF 820 "Classic Country" went to an all-sports format a couple of years ago. :-(


-- Black Shire

 

[hipporadio]

Apparently several of the new AM HD Radios receive C-Quam AM Stereo... in comparison to radios like the Sony SRF-A100 from the 80s which was flat to 10khz, and the Carver TX11a which was flat to 15k! But let's admit it...opening up am THAT wide means lots more interference unless you're REALLY close to the tower!

YES Mike--I owned both--and will admit to enjoying AM-stereo back in the day. I purchased the Carver TX11-B tuner in 1987 to enjoy my AM Oldies station in fine (mono) quality at home. Interesting, that this is an AM tuner that actually had TOO MUCH BANDWIDTH. It was practical only within a few miles of the tower. Still--I loved it, and you could shift to a narrow 7.5kHz bandwidth ("narrow"--right!) and avoid some of the interferrence and noise.

It's outmoded today in the AM world--especially with IBOC roaming around. I use it to recieve a VERY GOOD small market Oldies station recently rebuilt with a new Harris digital rig and Orban proc in my old hometown. I feed it from about two-miles from the TX at 64k mp3 mono over a VPN on a T-1 at my brother's business just to have a good wide-variety Oldies station to enjoy in decent fidelity (one DOESN'T exist in Chas-Town today).

They stream on the net in stereo with the usual maladies. You may wish to listen at www.superoldies1580.com They offer a MUCH wider playlist than do the few remaining large-market oldies outlets. BTW--I LOVED "Magic" in Charlotte back in the summer of 1999! It was a "fav"... VERY SORRY it's gone!

 

[hipporadio]

Have you personal knowledge that a single radio has been returned due to either cause? If you have no figures, it's just as reasonable to assume that the number is zero as that it's large!

I returned one... ;D

Thanks for a totally reasonable answer to a totally reasonable question. I was chasing one returned for programming, actually, but it was nice to see someone answer. Was your's one of the Famous "defective Receptors?" They have a reputation.

Clouseau

Inspector... Check out my review at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/cu...omer-reviews.sort_by=-SubmissionDate&n=172282

I believe you'll find it at the top of the the second page of reviews... Beyond the ones that exclaim "...needs a good antenna", "...high hopes--very disappointed", "Terrible reception", "I just sold my HD radio", and "another dumb idea"... 'Last check--61 of 71 said "Yea baby"--guess ten iBiquity employes voted against me... DARN--pass me that bottle of Scotch--I kinda like "single malt" ;D

I DID NOT purchase this radio... I "borowed" it for ten days from a friend who decided to return it to Amazon. 'Gave it a very good spin. BTW... I own the mono (non-HD) version of this radio--one of the five best on the market. The HD version pales in comparison. Sound is better with two speakers, but radio reception falls way short of the original. I actually wanted to like this radio--but couldn't!

 

[700WLW]

I always thought, your review was most-excellent, either way - BTW, I see the Receptor HD is back up to 8,000 in rankings (big surprise).

 

[hipporadio]

I always thought, your review was most-excellent, either way - BTW, I see the Receptor HD is back up to 8,000 in rankings (big surprise).

All the way up to 8000... WOW! 'Guess a few folks want to hear those "stations between the stations"--ya know--the ones you can only hear within the better-than-local 85dBu signal area... The ones that have disappeared from the air right after CC hands out some "pink slips" at those stations... And the ones the RIAA has decided to attack in court for unpaid copyright fees! How long can this farce last for free?

 

[Mike Walker]

BILL YOUR LINK IS BROKEN! I should never leave the house! I was gone a few hours to visit my mother (in Morganton, NC). When I got back, Bill's link had come, and GONE! YIKES!

Please repost, or e-mail it to me at [email protected]

I would LOVE to hear it!

"In other news" I also loved Magic in Charlotte. Too bad all the oldies statons have gone. That never would have happened without consolidation. Damn it! There are some good 'uns on the net. WOLF FM (available on Shoutcast) is a good example. There are others, too.

 

[700WLW]

I always thought, your review was most-excellent, either way - BTW, I see the Receptor HD is back up to 8,000 in rankings (big surprise).

All the way up to 8000... WOW! 'Guess a few folks want to hear those "stations between the stations"--ya know--the ones you can only hear within the better-than-local 85dBu signal area... The ones that have disappeared from the air right after CC hands out some "pink slips" at those stations... And the ones the RIAA has decided to attack in court for unpaid copyright fees! How long can this farce last for free?

I posted a very positive review, for the Sony ICF-S10MK2 on Nov. 28th on Amazon - it has only gotten 3 votes, but the Sony is ranked 570th, so you can imagine how poorly the Receptor HD has done, ranked at 8000 !

 

[Mike Walker]

Link to WNMB Audio

Bill asked if I would host this audio for him (of WNMB North Myrtle Beach in AM Stereo, recorded on the Accurian). I'm happy to, Bill! http://www.theproductionroom.net/wnmb.mp3

 

[hipporadio]

Actually Kahn may have been the best system in retrospect. But it ain't THAT clear that one system is technically superior to another...

Many today miss an important fact when revisiting the AM stereo sojourn beginning in the mid-80s. At that time many “better-healed” 1 and 5kw Class 3 and 4 AMs had recently surrendered their older tube-type transmitters for first-generation solid-state rigs. Although these transmitters were more efficient and offered very good audio quality—they were incompatible with the C-QUAM system due to the high level of IPM (Incidental Phase Modulation) generated as a product of their early solid-state modulation scheme. This could clearly be heard on a MONO AM station when listening in the switch-selectable stereo mode on the Sony stereo AM radios available at that time. IPM (on a mono signal) appeared as quasi-separated “fuzz” on the two Sony radios without pilot detection. Ironically, the best candidates for C-QUAM operation were the big “clears” with tube-type Harris MW-50s or Collins-Continental 317Cs plus lower-powered AMs with older tube-type rigs. The problem with the later was the age and lower audio quality of their transmitters (many left over from the 60s), thus most AM stereo operations were limited to large market Class 1s that were already migrating away from music and saw little need to experiment long-term with stereo technology.

With the purchase of my first AM in 1986—I could hardly wait to add stereo to our Oldies format. We had an eight-year-old Harris MW-1, and despite the very good audio quality afforded by that rig, Mr Engineer said “No can do”. I remember a local competitor installing a Motorola C-QUAM/CRL compliment into their 1957 Gates 5kw transmitter—what an audio disaster! The market thought it was a joke also. By the time we upgraded our facility with a new Harris “Gates” series 1kw rig in 1993 the AM stereo flame had extinguished, so we didn’t bother with stereo. In many respects the C-QUAM system was a winner and provided a definite audio enhancement, but at the time of its intro and “push”—many facilities simply could not accommodate it.

My conclusion was that C-Quam left the station much cleaner, but by the time the signal reached a real radio, Kahn's AM stereo signal was in much better condition for providing a reasonable listening experience.

I studied AM stereo extensively in the mid-80s and concluded that the Kahn system deserved to be bypassed... And didn’t the marketplace Mr Kahn so championed do just that? I only heard Kahn stereo on ONE station in the mid 80s—“66 WNnnnBC”. Granted, C-QUAM suffered at night from RFI that caused “platform motion”—but doesn’t the AM band suffer after sundown in general? I could never accept the dismal separation, limited bandwidth, and “cocktail party” effects from that system. I don’t believe the listeners would have also.

In 1994 we ran “borrowed” Delta AM stereo for a month—it sounded VERY GOOD locally on my Carver TX-11B wideband AM stereo tuner... But by that time—the thrill was gone. We could not justify its cost in a rapidly depreciating AM radio climate.

I've preached for years to engineers at AM stations..."the radios may not have great highs, but that's no reason to kill the bass too!"

Agreed Mike! Man, I hated that—and would never permit it. It was bad enough that most Pac-rim consumer electronics manufacturers like Sony and Panasonic chopped off lows in their AM sections... THEN many AM stations would add further insult to injury regardless. I’m enthused that the top six $120-150 table/portable radios available today offer a solid low end on AM—and five of them actually demodulate a hint of “hi-fi”... ‘Just in time for the IBOCers to limit transmitted AM bandwidth to just 5kHZ!

 

[Chuck]

I've preached for years to engineers at AM stations..."the radios may not have great highs, but that's no reason to kill the bass too!"

As a long time audio guy, I can give you this advice: "Bass is your friend." It is amazing what other bumps and warts you can hide if the low end is OK. It's probably why some people like the BA Receptor.