Savage said:
WFDF was not a daytimer. It has been on 860 (FRC days), 1310 and then 910 since the 30's. On 910 it was always 1 kw directional at night, and they went to 5 kw days in the 50's. It was the first station in Flint, as well.
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AM HD TURNOFF PACE ACCELERATES
- Thread starter Savage
- Start date
WFDF was not a daytimer. It has been on 860 (FRC days), 1310 and then 910 since the 30's. On 910 it was always 1 kw directional at night, and they went to 5 kw days in the 50's. It was the first station in Flint, as well.
I stand corrected. No, WFDF was not a daytimer. But it was a low-watts Flint station which Mickey Mouse Michigan spent a giant stack on, moving it to Farmington Hills and putting up a complex high-power AM directional system. 8 towers, 25kw unlimited, 50kw daytime. That's a lot of steel, copper, real estate and engineering.
My point was: if Disney's current policy is to shut off AMs pending sale, that represents a sea change in corporate attitudes about their AM-HD facilities, as compared with ten years ago or so when they invested millions in WFDF.
My point was: if Disney's current policy is to shut off AMs pending sale, that represents a sea change in corporate attitudes about their AM-HD facilities, as compared with ten years ago or so when they invested millions in WFDF.
Lets face it the AM band is on the way out in most cases, no not all since there will always be one or two cases that work where nothing else in any other part of the country does but in 99.9% of the time AM is not listened to much anymore by the general public. The AM station with FM translator works well but only because of the FM translator. If 250 watt FM radio stations with five to six hundred foot towers were allowed then this would work just as well and the AM station wouldn't be needed at all. AMHD is a problem added on to another problem to make an even bigger problem and in some cases station owners have invested so much money into AMHD that hasn't gone anywhere and now with the bad economy they are not sure where to turn next, maybe just turn them off, sell them off, and cut their loses.
Savage said:
Disney shut of a couple of dreadful facilities in very small markets... stations that were just not contributing and which were unlikely to be sold quickly. The major market stations like WQEW and KDIS and such are apparently considered valuable brand reinforcement extensions, and will likely stay for a while.
WFDF might very well have the highest transmission facility cost per listener of any radio station in America. Third best AM signal in the Detroit market -- almost as good as #2 and light years ahead of whatever is #4, yet almost no listeners. The two top AM signals are, of course, WJR and WWJ, both usually ranked top ten in the market in ratings and revenue. Hard to say what potential WFDF has; but a new owner, new programming, and turning off the HD would be a great way to start finding out.
KB1OKL said:
It wasn't always that way. WQEW/1560 used to have one of the most pristine AM Stereo audio chains anywhere. The Big Band format sounded great, especially in Stereo on skywave. Today 1560 sounds horrible. The IBOC exciter sounds lousy, anywhere it has been installed. AM was never meant to sound like this. You're lucky if you can get 4 to 5 kHz response, thanks to using IBOC. WBZ in Boston used sound better than any other station in the market, especially while they were using C-QUAM (Stereo). It's hard for me to listen to 'BZ now, especially with the hiss that's always there.
UPDATE: I got a private e-mail from a reader in Michigan who points out some WFDF fun facts of which I was unaware. Not only did The Mouse shell out construction and engineering megabucks to move the old Flint station into the market and upgrade it to 50kw, they also bought three other AM stations - including 900 WFRO in Fremont, Ohio - and took them silent to make the monster WFDF possible.
Talk about "the mountain laboring and giving birth to a Mouse..." (Literally!)
Talk about "the mountain laboring and giving birth to a Mouse..." (Literally!)
Disney's Philadelphia area affiliate, 640 WWJZ, turned off their IBOC a few months back, and they sound much louder and clearer than WQEW, even on a narrowband receiver, and even in areas where their signal is weaker than WQEW's. Even by the limited standards of what the analog portion of an AM IBOC signal can do, WQEW sounds very dull and undermodulated.KB1OKL said:
I always thought CKLW was #2 signalwise, behind WJR. I know WWJ has gone 50kw on a former regional frequency of 950, as have 1270 and several other Detroit market signals - but they've all mostly got something like nine-tower arrays. So while it's hard to figure how they could have better facilities than the 60-year old 5-tower CKLW system, I will defer to localoscillator - he has "boots on the ground" in Detroit and knows whereof he speaks. If WFDF indeed has the second- or third-best facility on AM in the market, that's quite an accomplishment.
Meanwhile; UPDATE! Barry McLarnon reports that AM-HD's pop-count has inched downward once again, to 244 total (83 on unlimited hours, with about half on graveyard channels.) Clear Channel and Bonneville have backed towards the exits, likely hoping nobody notices, by turning off major signals in HD.
Let's keep it up! Let's set a goal of fewer than 200 AM-HDs by early 2011!! ;D
Meanwhile; UPDATE! Barry McLarnon reports that AM-HD's pop-count has inched downward once again, to 244 total (83 on unlimited hours, with about half on graveyard channels.) Clear Channel and Bonneville have backed towards the exits, likely hoping nobody notices, by turning off major signals in HD.
Let's keep it up! Let's set a goal of fewer than 200 AM-HDs by early 2011!! ;D
semoochie said:
800 is a Mexican clear channel, and CKLW protects the entire Mexican border. It's really not that big a signal towards much of the previous US market, which is to the more on the protected side of the pattern.
Savage said:
Could you specify???? Thanks....
CKLW does indeed have a great signal, and CFCO is another solid signal over Metro Detroit. In my previous post, I (unintentionally?) excluded the Canadian signals. These days, they're easy to forget. Unlike in days gone by when THE BIG 8/CKLW was at times #1 simultaneously in three US markets (Detroit, Toledo, and Cleveland) and CFCO/630 along with CHYR/710&730 had solid followings, the Canadian AM's are less than shadows of their former selves. They tend to compete with Radio Disney to see who can have the fewest listeners -- on the US side of the border. CKLW, however, airs a local Canadian news/talk format that does quite well in its home county(Essex).
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