AM HD TURNOFF PACE ACCELERATES

[Savage]

Well, if you were here in Rochester making money with your "low power" signal on 1040 (20kw daytime, 13.2kw critical hours, sending a lobe over the market which is equivalent to 46kw nondirectional) you'd care plenty about first-adjacent noise.

Aside from your ill-informed dismissal of WYSL's facility, you also apparently don't know squat about the seriousness of IBOC skywave interference. (Or you're engaging in typical HD-cult denial, possibly both.) Martin Stabbert ordered IBOC off on Citadel major-market 50kw stations after TWO weeks of operation in 2007. WJR was killing WABC for morning-drive commuters. He was interested in protecting his flagship stations' coverage and revenue. Compare and contrast Stabbert vs. CBS: common sense as opposed to stubborn, self-defeating idiocy.

Since apparently you're going Guy-Wire on WYSL here, we can all note for the record (a) Stabbert is an impeccably credentialed apolitical guy who sees HD-AM for the stupidity which it is, and (b) aside from CBS and two or three other cynically HD-invested zealots, the technical train-wreck which is IBOC has been universally rejected in both the broadcast and consumer electronics industries.

 

[spunker88]

OK. What compelling "stuff" can you hear on 1550 and 1570 that 1560's IBOC "denies" the listeners of New York's metropolitan area?

Should 1560 decide to sign off for good: What do you believe the entire cume for an ENTIRE YEAR that 1550 AND 1570 will garner in Market #1? Beside yourself, I'd be willing to guess ZERO listeners! I can understand how a low power 1040 can be adversely affected by a 1030's IBOC and has a legitimate gripe. I can't see why or how anyone else should give a bleep about 1st or 2nd adjacent channel interference from IBOC! Co-channel interference is FAR and AWAY AM broadcasting's real "nightmare"!
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I doubt regular listeners care, but I like to DX the AM band and its kind of a waste when one station occupies 3 spots on the dial to offer a low quality and unreliable digital signal when they could run a full bandwidth better sounding analog signal and only occupy 1 spot. Also the fact that few people in NYC are actually listening to Radio Disney on AM-HD considering their demographic is children and teenagers. Other Radio Disney affiliates have been going off air or pulling HD in the last few years, because its just not worth it.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

What compelling "stuff" can you hear on 1550 and 1570 that 1560's IBOC "denies" the listeners of New York's metropolitan area?

Try to follow along: IBOC interference on AM interferes with adjacent-channel signals inside their IF contours. No one in 1560's coverage area is trying to listen to the first-adjacents. However, plenty of people are trying to do so in those signals' home markets and are subjected to the constant buzzing noise generated by 1560's noise generator...er, HD exciter.

See Savage's comments about Martin Stabbert (DOE for the now-defunct Citadel chain). That tells you all you need to know.

 

[KB1OKL]

Its nice to see HD is still off on Radio Disney 1560 from NYC, but they are still running narrow bandwidth analog audio. // At least I can actually hear stuff on 1550 and 1570 now.

OK. What compelling "stuff" can you hear on 1550 and 1570 that 1560's IBOC "denies" the listeners of New York's metropolitan area?

Should 1560 decide to sign off for good: What do you believe the entire cume for an ENTIRE YEAR that 1550 AND 1570 will garner in Market #1? Beside yourself, I'd be willing to guess ZERO listeners! I can understand how a low power 1040 can be adversely affected by a 1030's IBOC and has a legitimate gripe. I can't see why or how anyone else should give a bleep about 1st or 2nd adjacent channel interference from IBOC! Co-channel interference is FAR and AWAY AM broadcasting's real "nightmare"!
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I'm a DX'er and am constantly listening to the AM band with very good equipment, IBOC is far and away a much worse form of interference than Co-channel interference. For one thing IBOC is a constant source of non-musical noise and is not music and co-channel interference is not constant it's usually only certain forms of music and when the song's over it's gone.
I can just imagine how bad the sideband noise from the many IBOC AM stations they have there in metro NY is, it's horrible here in MA. WQEW was one of the worst ones. You should hear WBZ, WOR and WFAN here, there are many others but those are usually the worst offenders, it's a disgrace. I get IBOC noise from Chicago here many nights.
I wonder what the people who like to listen to music online would do if suddenly "adjacent" music stations were allowed to ruin the station you wanted?

 

[iyiyi]

Like I said, WYSL has a legimate bitch about WBZ's IBOC. Local radio is a tough sell regardless. I seriously doubt that WBZ greatly affects WYSL's day/critical hours. I am certain WBZ clobbers the WYSL 500 watt night signal. Some folk might consider 500 watts "low power". Nobody is dismissing or going "guy wire" on any person or radio facility. HD radio has plenty of problems and shortcomings. Whether I like it or not, digital radio is coming and coming quickly. Audiovox is jumping in with inexpensive HD receivers, just like they did 40 years ago with FM. Remember those little underdash FM converters that played through the AM car radios? Audiovox! I still have one. HD will happen very quickly! Like the Boy Scouts say, "Be prepared"!

Calm down. Nobody is trying to yank your chain. When I reach your level (successfully own and run a radio station) I'll look at things from that perspective. Until then -- if it is OK with you -- I'll respect you and your cause. I can't argue with success and you have proven yourself worthy of respect.

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[Savage]

Well, thanks, but I have to correct you again. Yes, WBZ does interfere with our 13.2kw critical hours. It also interferes with 20kw daytime in the winter months. Nothing (at least nothing which the FCC currently licenses on the AM band) can overcome IBOC skywave. If WABC's 50kw couldn't negate the incoming skywave from WJR, why would anyone think a lesser power would?
We are talking about a system here which is amazingly similar to Soviet-era shortwave jammers. It's a noise generator and it's degrading the band.

I will also dissent from your sentiment about "HD Radio coming quickly." Recently it was revealed that fewer than 35 stations (out of 13,000) converted to HD in the past two years; the countervailing numbers of stations shutting the system off have produced a net loss of "digital radio" in the US. Notwithstanding your claim about low-priced receivers HD Radios are like hens' teeth at retail. The only bright spot for HD is how the system has been used as a pretense for the launch of analog translators; it's a nifty way for big groups to wiggle around ownership caps (get that? HD is being used to leverage more ANALOG listening.) Other than that: it's dead.

 

[spunker88]

Are the big companies still advertising HD Radio anymore, especially on AM? Clear Channel has been doing a lot of marketing for its iHeartRadio app, where they are probably getting more listeners despite the fact that it requires internet. They have also been grabbing FM signals for stations like WGY. I heard an ad on 880 WCBS about a year ago that mentioned listening in HD at 101.1 HD-3 but said nothing about listening to 880 in HD.

Was browsing iBiquity's website when I came across this hilarious page title and immediately starting laughing:
"The Buzz About HD Radio Broadcasting". Its the one thing on that site that I fully agree with, there definitely is a buzz with HD Radio.

 

[KB1OKL]

Whether I like it or not, digital radio is coming and coming quickly. Audiovox is jumping in with inexpensive HD receivers, just like they did 40 years ago with FM. Remember those little underdash FM converters that played through the AM car radios? Audiovox! I still have one. HD will happen very quickly! Like the Boy Scouts say, "Be prepared"!


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The unfortunate bamboozling of the car makers is just the latest blip in the dwindling fortunes of I-Block.
Every year there is another new savior for HD and obviously none of them have worked so far. HD is a loser because the technology is bad, it doesn't work anywhere near as well as analog radio and doesn't sound much better if at all and I'm talking FM, AM IBOC? Forget it, it's not only a loser but it is detrimental to the AM band which is already way too noisy.

IBOC is just a gimmick, I don't understand why radio people don't realize that, then again maybe they do?

I think the old saying "you can lead a horse....." comes into play here.

 

[mmnassour]

If HD complaints start being a source of continual warranty claims for the manufacturers, then I can't imagine HD being in car radios much longer. The only reason we've seen so few so far is that there are only a few high-end radios out there that are listening to anything but HD Radio. Put them in Ma and Pa Kent's Impala with the AM/FM/CD and I'm betting they'll become a larger hassle than they're worth to the manufacturers.

 

[nd2023]

Floor mats are more useful than HD radios in cars. Someone complained about the terrible HD reception, and the manufacturer gave that person floor mats for their car as compensation for not being able to change the radio. AM IBUZ is just hastening the death of the AM band.

WINS, WBZ, and KDKA are all available on the FM band in either analog or HD. CBS doesn't need to let its historic flagship news stations interfere with each other. KDKA and WBZ are a buzzfest in NJ, about halfway between Boston and Pittsburgh. WINS sometimes suffers IBUZ interference from KDKA at night, inside the New York market.

So there might not be any 1550 or 1570 stations in NYC, but Radio Disney's IBUZ goes hundreds of miles at night and that interferes with other 1550 and 1570 stations within their own protected coverage areas.

 

[KB1OKL]

WQEW Radio Disney has their hash generator back on and it's whooshier than ever, it now occupies 1533 to 1587 50 kHz of noise, big improvement, yes the stations on 1540 and 1580 are receivable but sound terrible. Their analog audio is now very distorted again., it still sounds like the frequency response is about 200 to 3000 Hz.

 

[spunker88]

WQEW Radio Disney has their hash generator back on and it's whooshier than ever, it now occupies 1533 to 1587 50 kHz of noise, big improvement, yes the stations on 1540 and 1580 are receivable but sound terrible. Their analog audio is now very distorted again., it still sounds like the frequency response is about 200 to 3000 Hz.

No, I was hoping they came to their senses and shut it off for good. I was actually getting CJLV 1570, a 10kw French music station from outside of Montreal every night. It was surprising how much better you could hear them. 1550 was interesting because with CBE Windsor gone it actually was DXable. I kept getting something in Spanish that I could never ID.

 

[badjef]

WQEW Radio Disney has their hash generator back on and it's whooshier than ever, it now occupies 1533 to 1587 50 kHz of noise, big improvement, yes the stations on 1540 and 1580 are receivable but sound terrible. Their analog audio is now very distorted again., it still sounds like the frequency response is about 200 to 3000 Hz.

No, I was hoping they came to their senses and shut it off for good. I was actually getting CJLV 1570, a 10kw French music station from outside of Montreal every night. It was surprising how much better you could hear them. 1550 was interesting because with CBE Windsor gone it actually was DXable. I kept getting something in Spanish that I could never ID.

I don't know where you are, but our 1550 is WAMA with a Spanish language format. It is a 10kw day, but "supposed to be" 133w at night.

A cool DX if true.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[ddsparxx]

So that what I may be hearing at night in VA...

As for any IBOC sideband interference from Radio Disney 1560, I seem to hear NONE at 1550 and 1570 early morning hours before dawn while WQEW's signal is strong enough to be heard here. Maybe Disney Enterprises or whoever owns WQEW has it on only on days...? If they were smart, they should just leave it off.

 

[KB1OKL]

So that what I may be hearing at night in VA...

As for any IBOC sideband interference from Radio Disney 1560, I seem to hear NONE at 1550 and 1570 early morning hours before dawn while WQEW's signal is strong enough to be heard here. Maybe Disney Enterprises or whoever owns WQEW has it on only on days...? If they were smart, they should just leave it off.

I think last night was the first night it was on in several weeks.

 

[KB1OKL]

WQEW radio Disney 1560 NY's IBOC is off again after the return of IBOC last night after several IBOC free weeks.Their sidebands were completely crushing their neighbors on 1550 and 1570 but the hash was heard close to their 2nd adjacents: 1540 and 1580 causing potential interference to them.

 

[dxho]

WQEW radio Disney 1560 NY's IBOC is off again after the return of IBOC last night after several IBOC free weeks.Their sidebands were completely crushing their neighbors on 1550 and 1570 but the hash was heard close to their 2nd adjacents: 1540 and 1580 causing potential interference to them.

I was seeing indication of IBOC last night on WQEW. The Disney affiliate here is the only AM holdout in my area, including...

WRVA, after running it for years only during the days, had been running it full-time for months, until the last few days. It's been completely off since.

 

[ddsparxx]

WQEW's noise machine seemed to be off last night.

 

[Savage]

Whoopsy! Another notch downwards as McLarnon's site reports KOGO has turned off the Hisssss. Total pop now = 216! First round's on me!

 

[satech]

Amusingly, 710 WOR just reduced the bandwidth of their audio to 4.5 kHz, while neighboring 770 WABC has increased the bandwidth of their audio to the full NRSC 10 kHz, making the difference in quality between WOR's IBOC signal and WABC's analog-only signal even more drastic!