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AM HD was a fail... but FM HD not so much

B

beantownradio25

Guest
I am a supporter of HD Radio, I beleive that FM HD has a very bright future ahead of it, however I must say that AM HD was a fail. :-[

When I first head of AM HD, I thought it was the savior of this dying band. However, it is far from it. I don't think anything could save the band at this point, AM Stereo was a great concept but it's days have came and gone.

I think that one by one we will see the major market Clear Channel AM's go back to analog only.

FM HD is a different story however... ;D
 
It sure is. AM HD is the devil's work, but FM HD works, works well, and will work even better when power increases work their way through the installed base of stations (and new ones yet to convert).

Spectacularly effective tuners and radios like the Sony XDR-F1HD, and the Insignia pocket HD do what many said couldn't be done...make HD solid and effective, even with simple antennas, into deep fringe areas.

Analog still covers more warm bodies...but that gap has closed quite a bit in the last couple of years.
 
Yeah, 10 people in a market have an HD radio, compared to 2 people 3 years ago. The gap between analog and HD is closing.
 


Of the next five thousand radios you see, how many will be HD-capable? Two? Three? People, stick a fork in this mess, it's done!
 
Mike Walker said:
It sure is. AM HD is the devil's work, but FM HD works, works well, and will work even better when power increases work their way through the installed base of stations (and new ones yet to convert).

Spectacularly effective tuners and radios like the Sony XDR-F1HD, and the Insignia pocket HD do what many said couldn't be done...make HD solid and effective, even with simple antennas, into deep fringe areas.

Analog still covers more warm bodies...but that gap has closed quite a bit in the last couple of years.

I really hope so because what I've seen so far is really disappointing. I got a new car stereo with a built in HD tuner (JVC Arsenal KD-AHD69) and while the analog tuner works wonders (I hear stations that were literally just static with my old factory radio) the HD is a constant fade-fest, and you can't even turn it off (Well, you kinda can, but once you change the channel it turns itself on again)! I've got a station less than 20 miles (WSKX) away that just cuts in and out all the time. I was excited about the New Country they got for an HD2 but it's unlistenable. WMKK's HD1 and HD2 come in great, but the WEEI feed on HD3 is a drop out fest. The majority of the time, the damn HD light just blinks endlessly. I only get TWO HD stations reliably (WERZ and WHEB), mainly because those transmitters are less than 5 and 10 miles away, respectively. Don't even get me started on AM-HD. I gave it a chance, and I'm NOT impressed. Thankfully the stereo itself is great though.
 
Zach said:
Nick said:
Yeah, 10 people in a market have an HD radio, compared to 2 people 3 years ago. The gap between analog and HD is closing.

I think Mike was referring to the gap between primary analog coverage and digital coverage, not the number of users.

I think Mike passed gas and mistook it for something meaningful.
 
OK, first off let me wholeheartedly agree with the OP about AM HD being an epic failure. A disaster. And, lastly, it's a fine litmus test to separate the clued-in (who have shut it down) from the clueless (who haven't).

Now, onto FM HD. I have more mixed feelings about this portion of the technology. It has/had potential to provide something interesting. However, in practice, it rarely delivers.

First of all, there are the well-documented peculiarities of how the digital signal will just dump out on you when less than perfect. If you're listening to an HD-2, that means you abruptly cut to silence. If you're on the HD-1, more often than not you notice a half-second difference between the HD and analog feeds. Very annoying.

However, worst of all is how the opportunity for owners to capitalize on HD has been squandered. Recently, I was in Salt Lake City - an area tailor-made for HD radio if ever there was one. Transmitters with awesome power and line of sight tower over the entire metro area, so the digital signal does a lot better than in most areas. Lots of stations, yet all are are at least 0.4 MHz spaced - so the nasty aftertaste of adjacent signals (be they rimshots or adjacent market signals) being blotted out is not present here. Technologically, HD works better here than anywhere else in the US. Yet, there is trouble in paradise.....

I've noticed that a number of stations that were supposed to add HD as long as 2 years ago still haven't done it (KENZ, KUBL, etc.). And, a couple of stations that used to have HD-2 signals as little as 10 months ago no longer offer them (KBEE, KBER, KSFI, etc.). Worst of all, those that do program HD-2's offer a mixed-bag of formats. My favorite waste of bandwidth involves a Classic Country format which is also offered over a Provo-area based analog translator on 99.1. This 'station' can be heard on THREE different stations' HD-2s: KISN 97.1 HD-2, KZMY 99.5 HD-2 and KNRS 105.7 HD-2! All three transmit from the same area with almost identical signal patterns! Talk about a waste, a good 1/3 of the HD-2 offerings in this market consist of the exact same thing. Some value there!

Of the rest, the best seems to be the classic alternative format ("Radio Radio") offered on KOSY-FM 106.5 HD-2. It's awesome! Aside from that, there's nothing else compelling offered via HD - which isn't that different from what you see in most markets. There used to be a 50s-60s-70s oldies format on 98.7 HD-2, but now KBEE no longer offers an HD-2 feed.

In other words, there just isn't enough value offered to the average listener for them to bother with HD. At least satellite radio offers a ton of format options which seem to justify the price of entry to many consumers. HD really doesn't. And therein lies the problem. It's not just the technology, it's what station owners have (and haven't) done with it. There's no reason for the average consumer to go out and buy an HD radio. The "added value" just doesn't equate to the cost/trouble of purchasing a new HD radio.

So, is FM-HD a failure too? Well, based on the lackluster offerings and absolute lack of interest shown by consumers, you could say that it is. However, it doesn't have to be. Unlike AM HD, it has potential. But, breathtakingly poor management of this new aspect of the medium has definitely stunted its growth so far. We shall see how it goes, but at this rate it will never take off. Why? Because it's a 2010 answer to a 1990's question. Technology moved past this point about 10 years ago. Sure, there's nothing to say that the few of us with HD radios won't get to use them for a long time. But I am having serious doubts that HD radio will ever be relevant. For that to change, 'lightning' will have to strike and strike soon. So far, there's no evidence of that in the forecast......
 
Not to mention, FM HD has that low-bitrate lossy-codec sound which is anything but High Definition. Our ears tell us something isn't quite right.

Yes, the signal-to-noise ratio of the HD codec is theoretically greater than analog FM, and the system helps with multipath in certain spots, but otherwise the performance is mediocre; it gives music a tainted timbre. The Dolby codec used in DTV is far superior.
 
Savage said:
And that's for FM. The AM version is 32 kbps. Small wonder the codec sounds SO swell.... ::)

I don't care what the computer geeks say, you can't squeeze decent audio from 32 kbps and you never will. This is why we should never let computer people dictate to us what "sounds like the source" because they all have tin ears. You (the Royal You, not you, Savage) can tout your codec's 48 kbps as being "just like the CD" but no, sorry, it sounds like crap to me.

Give me FLAC or give me death. Or death by mp3. ;)
 
A 100K blowtorch makes up for some of HD's failings. But a 6K peanut popper FM HD sucks!

If you live next door to the stick you're in good shape.. Heck 6k analog only takes ya so far..

nobody mentions this..
 
Disclaimer: I know it's a matter of taste. But to my ears, I have yet to hear an HD FM station - even including those running only the HD-1 digital single stream - where the digital sounds uniformly as good as the analog.

FWIW, I think AM generally sounded better pre-NRSC, too. If the powers-that-be had followed through and mandated receiver standards and enforced interference from consumer devices, NRSC might have proven to be a good thing. But the way things worked out all the pre-emphasis did was make AM shrill and hard-to-tune on many radios.

And the adjacent-channel brick wall from NRSC becomes a laughing matter in the era of IBOC. What's the point any more? We should turn off the NRSC limiters and go back to Audimax-Volumax or Sta-Level days.
 
No point at all in being circumspect and proper when the FCC has permitted continuous wideband splatter.
Let them peaks fly! A healthy amount of splatter might just be enough to keep a few more "HD" lights flashing uselessly and
help the public understand that HD on AM is nothing more than an open sewer, engineering-wise.
 
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