AM on FM

[Bat Fastard]

No doubt, AM operators nationwide are looking into the new ruling that (I think) clears the way for daytime and stand-alone AMs to be eligible for FM translators.

Two questions:

1) Are ALL such daytimers and stand-alones REALLY eligible for FM translators? Seems I read something about some threshold of eligibility relating to those who already have such applications in the pipeline. Is that correct?

2) With the recent demise of WDKN in Dickson, I'm wondering about the AM stations that might actually have something that resembles a level playing field after so many years of being behind the 8-ball, facilites-wise.

So...where are the stations that would benefit from having an FM translator for their AM?

The Waynesboro AM would certainly be one.

 

[anotherguyTN]

WTRO 1450 in Dyersburg has a translator on 101.7. This increases their coverage at night, but it's on the same frequency as a K-LOVE translator in Brownsville, and where I live in Alamo the signals conflict. I wish they were on another frequency.

The most useless FM translator for AM in West TN is the one WTJS 1390 in Jackson has on 94.1, Considering that WTJS now has two FM stations on 105.3 and 94.3 (Which never made sense to me since there were already two FM news/talk stations in Jackson) this translator does absolutely nothing to increase or improve coverage anywhere.

 

[w9wi]

No doubt, AM operators nationwide are looking into the new ruling that (I think) clears the way for daytime and stand-alone AMs to be eligible for FM translators.

Two questions:

1) Are ALL such daytimers and stand-alones REALLY eligible for FM translators? Seems I read something about some threshold of eligibility relating to those who already have such applications in the pipeline. Is that correct?

ALL AM stations are eligible. (heck, WSM-650 could have one if it wanted...)

The eligibility question is on the side of the translators. Only translators that already held licenses or construction permits as of May 1st may be used to relay AMs. Also, translators below 92MHz aren't eligible. (that segment is reserved for non-commercial FM stations -- apparently the small number of non-commercial AM stations were not considered.)

Translators' 60dBu signal cannot extend past 25 miles of the AM tower or the 2mV/m daytime AM signal, whichever is smaller.

See http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-09-59A1.pdf. (note WGNS's Bart Walker is quoted in the footnotes on page 2)

2) With the recent demise of WDKN in Dickson, I'm wondering about the AM stations that might actually have something that resembles a level playing field after so many years of being behind the 8-ball, facilites-wise.

It was announced on the channel 4 news last night that WDKN is coming back. (and for the whole story that was exactly what I was thinking: this is a station that could benefit from an FM translator!) There is only one eligible translator in Dickson right now, and it's relaying WNKJ Hopkinsville. But I suppose you could move a translator from somewhere else.

I would imagine just about every AM station is looking at obtaining one or more translators.

 

[firepoint525]

If every AM station got an FM translator, guess which band would soon become irrelevant? ;D

As I recall, WAMB here in Nashville used to have one (wasn't it sold to Bott?), but I think it only broadcast at night. Not sure why that was, unless it had something to do with interference to WANT.

 

[w9wi]

If every AM station got an FM translator, guess which band would soon become irrelevant? ;D

As I recall, WAMB here in Nashville used to have one (wasn't it sold to Bott?), but I think it only broadcast at night. Not sure why that was, unless it had something to do with interference to WANT.

WAMB when it was on 1160 had one, but it was licensed on a different basis. At the time, it wasn't yet generally permitted for FM translators to relay AM stations. However, when Radio Marti was authorized, Congress required the FCC to accomodate AM stations suffering from interference from the resulting Cuban jamming. A number of AM stations in Florida received power increases. WAMB got the FM translator. Because the Cuban jamming was only a problem at night, the translator was only authorized to operate at night. WANT didn't exist yet - and in any case if I recall properly the translator was initially on 106.7. (it got bumped from that frequency when the station that's now The Fan came on the air) A station in Jackson, Misssissippi also got an FM translator out of this deal.

The translator transferred to Bott when they bought the 1160 AM facility. I know they operated it initially, haven't listened in quite awhile so I'm not certain they still do.

WAMB on 1200 is not eligible for a translator under the Cuban interference program, but now that FM translators are routinely available to AM stations they've acquired the one on 99.3 in Donelson. (I think it initially relayed Way FM?) Since that translator was licensed regularly, WAMB can operate it 24/7.

I'm sure every AM station is looking at obtaining an FM translator, but I'm sure only a fraction will actually get one. And the translators will in many cases have less useful daytime coverage than the associated AM. That said I will not be at all surprised if we see, once their translators are on, some of these stations mysteriously fail to notice the AM transmitter is off.....

 

[firepoint525]

I just assumed that WAMB's 106.7 frequency was sold to Cumulus. (Interesting to note that back about that time, a very low power "station" could be heard on 106.9 near the Broadway/West End split, usually promoting whatever artist was on that big billboard there back about that time.)

Didn't WAMB also simulcast on 92.9 many years ago? (This was before I moved here, but I remember seeing one of those engraved plastic signs on their studio door saying "AM 1160/FM 92.9" or something like that.) Seemed like every FM frequency they ever used eventually ended up being transferred to someone else.

Bott is apparently still using 98.7, because I still occasionally hear their programming there. But I live far enough west of Nashville that I am usually able to pick up WHOP from Hopkinsville on that frequency.

Yes, 99.3 was a WAY-FM translator at one time. Apparently, WAY-FM can now be heard well enough in Donelson on other frequencies that they no longer need(ed) the 99.3 spot on the dial.

 

[knoxbob]

What if there are not any FM translators in your area. Can you buy one from far away and move it to you COL and then use it?

 

[firepoint525]

We've come full circle. In the early days of FM radio, the FCC required FM to originate their own programming (not simulcast with AM) for at least X hours a day! This was to give FM a chance to take root and establish an identity separate from AM. Well, it worked! Maybe too well! Now, AM stations are having to get FM translators, just in an effort to stay relevant!

There are a couple of problems with this:

1) Do we really want to hear "swap shop" type programs and farm reports on FM?

2) The time-honored tradition of just letting something "track" when you have a graveyard shift at an AM station pumping out just 54 watts at night will be gone! :'(

 

[firepoint525]

WTRO 1450 in Dyersburg has a translator on 101.7. This increases their coverage at night, but it's on the same frequency as a K-LOVE translator in Brownsville, and where I live in Alamo the signals conflict. I wish they were on another frequency.

Ah, yes, 101.7. That was the frequency for WCMT-FM in Martin when I lived in west TN and worked for WCMT. Interesting to note that WCMT-AM put WCMT-FM on the air in 1967 or 1968 so that they would be able to carry high school football games live. Now WCMT-AM has their own FM translator. This is all spelled out on their website, wcmt.com.

The most useless FM translator for AM in West TN is the one WTJS 1390 in Jackson has on 94.1, Considering that WTJS now has two FM stations on 105.3 and 94.3 (Which never made sense to me since there were already two FM news/talk stations in Jackson) this translator does absolutely nothing to increase or improve coverage anywhere.

I wonder if they are "holding" one of them, pending a sale to someone else. Maybe it is sort of a "placeholder/placekeeper" situation, programming something/anything on a given frequency until they can sell it.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

There are a couple of problems with this:

1) Do we really want to hear "swap shop" type programs and farm reports on FM?

Let me suggest you have asked the question the wrong way. "Are there communities where swap shop and farm reports meet the interests and needs of the (potential) listeners?" It there is a thirst, a tolerance for that programming, and it makes it financially feasible for the station to exist and operate, what difference does it make whether AM or FM is the "religious preference" of the Transmitter?

 

[w9wi]

What if there are not any FM translators in your area. Can you buy one from far away and move it to you COL and then use it?

As I understand it (and I'm pushing my knowledge of the rules here), you can move a translator as a "minor change" if the new facility and the old one have some coverage area in common. (even if it's only a few square inches) It may also be necessary that the new facility be on the same frequency as the old one; on an adjacent frequency; or on a frequency separated by 10.6 or 10.8. (IF interference)

So you couldn't move the 93.9 translator in Gallatin to 107.3 in Knoxville as a minor change.

(you could move it as a "major change" but you'd have to wait for the next filing window -- which could take years -- and you'd likely be competing with dozens of applicants for new translators.)

If nobody chimes in with definitive information I'll go look it up.

 

[firepoint525]

There are a couple of problems with this:
1) Do we really want to hear "swap shop" type programs and farm reports on FM?

Let me suggest you have asked the question the wrong way. "Are there communities where swap shop and farm reports meet the interests and needs of the (potential) listeners?" It there is a thirst, a tolerance for that programming, and it makes it financially feasible for the station to exist and operate, what difference does it make whether AM or FM is the "religious preference" of the Transmitter?

I thought it was clear that that was a joke. However, there already are FM stations that I know of that have such programming. Some are freestanding FMs that have never had an AM sister station. Others are FM stations (not translators) that simulcast AM sister stations. However, I thought the main purpose behind FM translators was to increase the potential reach of an AM station at night. Aside from that, nearly all such FM stations are in rural areas, so it is unlikely that I would ever hear such a station.

 

[anotherguyTN]

WTRO 1450 in Dyersburg has a translator on 101.7. This increases their coverage at night, but it's on the same frequency as a K-LOVE translator in Brownsville, and where I live in Alamo the signals conflict. I wish they were on another frequency.

Ah, yes, 101.7. That was the frequency for WCMT-FM in Martin when I lived in west TN and worked for WCMT. Interesting to note that WCMT-AM put WCMT-FM on the air in 1967 or 1968 so that they would be able to carry high school football games live. Now WCMT-AM has their own FM translator. This is all spelled out on their website, wcmt.com.

The most useless FM translator for AM in West TN is the one WTJS 1390 in Jackson has on 94.1, Considering that WTJS now has two FM stations on 105.3 and 94.3 (Which never made sense to me since there were already two FM news/talk stations in Jackson) this translator does absolutely nothing to increase or improve coverage anywhere.

I wonder if they are "holding" one of them, pending a sale to someone else. Maybe it is sort of a "placeholder/placekeeper" situation, programming something/anything on a given frequency until they can sell it.

Both the translators in Jackson and Martin were originally supposed to be for WAY-FM, but then they backed out at the last minute and sold them. In the past few months WAY-FM also sold off their translator in Union City to WCMT's owners as well. The Martin and UC translators being sold didn't bother me so much because Air 1 is in UC now, and has better coverage than the translators would have.

The sale of the Jackson translator has bothered me more for two reasons. One is that for years WAY-FM has talked of getting a translator in the Jackson area, but then when they almost had it they sold it off. The second reason is the fact that it has never served any useful purpose in the Jackson area to improve coverage of anything that wasn't already on a full power FM station. At first it was used to rebroadcast WYNU, and then the "TJ Network" after they were already on 105.3 and 94.3. I wish that WAY-FM had held on to it.

If you're referring to 94.3 being a "placeholder", they have never done anything more than rebroadcast a Jackson or Humboldt area station and occasionally try to market themselves as a Dyersburg area station in the process, even with the previous owners. At first they rebroadcast 105.3 when it was alternative and later CHR, then Froggy 104.1, 1190 in Humboldt, and finally back to 105.3 with the "TJ Network". I'd definitely like to see it be sold or at least changed to something that isn't already being done in West TN.

 

[Gregg Rivers]

Not sure why this keeps coming up... but it seems to me the TJ-Network is helping the old WTJS-AM reach people it couldn't before. It's helping that station make a profit and increasing employment in the area. I'm not sure that's wasteful at all!
WAY-FM obviously couldn't make things work finacially. They did what they had to do. Sell!
WYNU was indeed using one of the low powered FMs as a placeholder until the sale went through. That's just something we had to do.
The one thing you have to remember is privately owned or corporate owned stations have to do TWO things... Serve the public AND make a profit! If either of those two things are missing, "Turn out the lights, the party is over!"
Thankfully the new TJ-Network is doing BOTH for the first time in a long while. Time to PARTY!
But I still don't understand why simulcasting gets under your skin so bad ??? Stations have done this for years.

 

[ONAIR4U]

I like the TJ network, mostly.

 

[firepoint525]

Both the translators in Jackson and Martin were originally supposed to be for WAY-FM, but then they backed out at the last minute and sold them. In the past few months WAY-FM also sold off their translator in Union City to WCMT's owners as well. The Martin and UC translators being sold didn't bother me so much because Air 1 is in UC now, and has better coverage than the translators would have.

What is WCMT planning to put on this translator? Yet another repeater for WCMT-AM? Give us a break, Paul! :

The sale of the Jackson translator has bothered me more for two reasons. One is that for years WAY-FM has talked of getting a translator in the Jackson area, but then when they almost had it they sold it off. The second reason is the fact that it has never served any useful purpose in the Jackson area to improve coverage of anything that wasn't already on a full power FM station. At first it was used to rebroadcast WYNU, and then the "TJ Network" after they were already on 105.3 and 94.3. I wish that WAY-FM had held on to it.

WAY-FM has been divesting themselves of translators in recent years. See my earlier comment about them selling off 99.3 in the Donelson area east of Nashville.

If you're referring to 94.3 being a "placeholder", they have never done anything more than rebroadcast a Jackson or Humboldt area station and occasionally try to market themselves as a Dyersburg area station in the process, even with the previous owners. At first they rebroadcast 105.3 when it was alternative and later CHR, then Froggy 104.1, 1190 in Humboldt, and finally back to 105.3 with the "TJ Network". I'd definitely like to see it be sold or at least changed to something that isn't already being done in West TN.

Where are these two 94-FM translators located? Are they close enough to each other to interfere with each other's signal?

 

[firepoint525]

Not sure why this keeps coming up... but it seems to me the TJ-Network is helping the old WTJS-AM reach people it couldn't before. It's helping that station make a profit and increasing employment in the area. I'm not sure that's wasteful at all!
WAY-FM obviously couldn't make things work finacially. They did what they had to do. Sell!
WYNU was indeed using one of the low powered FMs as a placeholder until the sale went through. That's just something we had to do.
The one thing you have to remember is privately owned or corporate owned stations have to do TWO things... Serve the public AND make a profit! If either of those two things are missing, "Turn out the lights, the party is over!"
Thankfully the new TJ-Network is doing BOTH for the first time in a long while. Time to PARTY!
But I still don't understand why simulcasting gets under your skin so bad ??? Stations have done this for years.

Thunderbolt has had some redundancy of coverage for years, particularly with regard to the Titans and Vols. Both can be heard on both their Obion and Weakley County stations, even though all their properties can easily be heard in either county! : I'm guessing this is just to sell advertising.

 

[anotherguyTN]

The last time I was in Union City the former WAY-FM translator was off the air. It might be that they're going to rebroadcast 1410 in UC, which might make sense at night.

WAY-FM selling off translators in the Nashville area makes some sense since their signal has been improved in some of those areas where the translator isn't necessary now. Selling off the UC translator also wasn't so bad since Air 1 has a full power station there now. However they put their translator in Murray. KY in as planned at about the same time the one in Jackson was supposed to come on, and I wish they had done the same in Jackson rather than selling it off.

94.3 is WTJJ, which is a full power FM station in Dyer. 94.1 is a translator that is in Jackson. It tends to block out 94.3 in Jackson, but since they're carrying the same signal it really doesn't matter.

In reference to Gregg's questions, I'll admit I'm not a big fan of News/Talk, especially on FM. I'm not against simulcasting, but I just don't see why it's necessary to have 4 FM frequencies with News/Talk in a city the size of Jackson. Nashville has only one, and Memphis doesn't have any. Why does Jackson need 4?

I'd say the same thing though about any format. I like K-LOVE but I think they have had more stations and translators than they need in West TN. But they changed the station in UC to Air 1 and the one in Ripley to God's Country and moved it to Hayti, MO, so they don't overlap as much now.

 

[firepoint525]

The last time I was in Union City the former WAY-FM translator was off the air. It might be that they're going to rebroadcast 1410 in UC, which might make sense at night.

On a typical night, an FM simulcast (in Union City) of WCMT-AM might make some sense. Syndicated network news talk shows used to be heard in Union City during the evening and overnight hours, and this simulcast would bring that back.

However, on evenings when WCMT is carrying Weakley County area high school football or basketball games, I don't think that would be of much use to Union City area listeners unless the opponent is an Obion County school. I'm guessing that WCMT-AM with an FM translator would carry mostly Westview High School, with WCMT-FM carrying the outlying high schools in Weakley County, rather than the WCMT-AM/WCMT-FM simulcast that they have done for years.