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AM power question

R

rchesnav

I know unless you have a clear channel you have to operate at reduced power at night, but how much do you have to crank down? Going to work this morning at 5am, I just happened to tune into 980 for the news. I could barely hear it in front of the studio on 315. I figure they have a microwave link to their tower, which would be line-of-sight, so I should be in line somewhat with the antenna but the signal was being trashed by 1 or 2 other stations. Once I got on I-81N in the dip before the Avoca exit, I switched to 910 and got it clear as a bell. Is 980 highly directional?
 
Speaking of 910 AM, that was the former WGBI, which comes with a story, true or not. Legend says that many years ago, the Megargee family had the opportunity to acquire a 50K designation, but didn't want to spend the bucks(no surprise there)necessary to have themselves an AM giant right here in NE PA. Instead, that 50K went to Fort Wayne, Indiana, and WOWO. In the here and now, it makes little difference since AM is all but a novelty, but how many of us listened in the dark as kids to WOWO? I know I did...

If the story is bogus, let's hear it.
 
You have 4 classes of AM's and some sub-classes inbetween. The 1-A clear channel is what most people think of when they think of 50Kw AM's. But a 1-B has some restrictions. A class 2 which often is made up of stations that are 50Kw during the day but with varying powers and directional patterns. KYW is a 2-B. Then you have the class-3's which were called regionals. They are usually the 5Kw stations with varying powers and patterns. Then you have the class-4's which are for the most part the 1Kw-D 250w night, and many of them are non-directionals. AM radio works like a puzzle piece. Usually the rule of thumb is that the older the license, the better the signal. The later you came to the band, the more power or pattern restrictions your license would have. Mr. Walker refered to who you had to protect. Usually, the youngers protect the olders. Maybe that helps.
 
but how many of us listened in the dark as kids to WOWO? I know I did...

If the story is bogus, let's hear it.

I don't think the story is bogus at all. I have heard it from many people who worked for that family and I truly believe it's true. Anytime you have a story like that which turns out to be a falsehood, there are too many variations to it. Thiis story's facts from many different storytellers have remained consistent and while that does not make it the absolute truth, I think it's pretty darn close.

Yonkstur
 
With regard to WILK'S night directional pattern, it protects WTRY in Troy, N.Y., and WRC in Washington, D.C.
The pattern looks much like a 4-leaf clover.
 
There's lots of stories floating around about missed opportunities at high powered AM, FM and even TV signals in this market, but you have to keep in mind that these were opportunities during the birth of radio and tv. Nothing was proven back then and not everyone would invest a lot of money in something that didn't have "legs".
 
I've got a flier on my wall for the "NEW WILK-FM at 107.3" with 3000 actual watts from Penobscot Mtn (equivalent to 20000 watts which was the class B max at that time). There's a picture of a building a tower and a coverage area. How bout that for a good one. I believe its from 1946, Bob Lenio gave it to me from his excellent collection of radio memorabilia. I do not know if it actually came on the air.

One defunct station that was on the air was the old 92.3 WQAN-FM. It was the Scranton Times FM and was on air from 1946 or 47 to around 1955 or so (on before 630 AM came on). I've found info laying around and I've met old announcers who described the operation to me . The antenna was a 4 bay all Horz on the same Bald Mtn tower where 100.5 FM, 98.9 FM and the aux. for WEZX are located. WQAN-FM operated with 2000 watts which from Bald was equivalent to 15 or 20 kw. WGBI-FM went on around this time from a tower a few hundred feet from WQAN-FM. Of course WQAN-FM is the predecessor to WEZX. The WQAN-FM studio building was torn down around 2000 because of a collapsing wall...the well room and electrical box along its back wall are all thats left other than the tower itself which as I mentioned still stands.

Kevin
 
Here is WILK (980)'s night time pattern. It is weak in the town of Luzerne, and all but non-existant in Courtdale, even though they are relatively close, in mileage, to the towers in Plymouth.

The former WRC (now WTEM) in Washinton, also on 980, now runs 5000 watts at night, and often bounces in, causing interference for WILK in some of their weak coverage area.

WOFX (formerly WTRY) in Troy / Albany NY also runs 5000 at night and occassionsionally interferes with WILK's 1000 watt night time signal.
 
masterg said:
Speaking of 910 AM, that was the former WGBI, which comes with a story, true or not. Legend says that many years ago, the Megargee family had the opportunity to acquire a 50K designation, but didn't want to spend the bucks(no surprise there)necessary to have themselves an AM giant right here in NE PA. Instead, that 50K went to Fort Wayne, Indiana, and WOWO. In the here and now, it makes little difference since AM is all but a novelty, but how many of us listened in the dark as kids to WOWO? I know I did...

If the story is bogus, let's hear it.
Click to expand...

The story may be true, but WOWO was at 1190, and WGBI originally ran at around 880, if I am not mistaken.
Of course, we all listened to WOWO at night 'in the dark as kids', and we all assumed that it ran 50,000 watts at night, but now it is listed as "Nighttime Power 9800 Watts", so either they reduced the night time power, or it always was lower than their daytime 50K.

My brother once picked up WGBI at night ten miles west of Pittsfield Mass. Not bad for 500 watts!

Here is an article about the (relatively) recent demolishing of the old WGBI AM tower on the hill near the Montage exit.
 
Kevin Fitzgerald said:
I've got a flier on my wall for the "NEW WILK-FM at 107.3" with 3000 actual watts from Penobscot Mtn (equivalent to 20000 watts which was the class B max at that time). There's a picture of a building a tower and a coverage area. How bout that for a good one. I believe its from 1946, Bob Lenio gave it to me from his excellent collection of radio memorabilia. I do not know if it actually came on the air.
Click to expand...

Roy Morgan told me that they ended up having to make a choice between operating an FM station or a TV station, due to financial considerations.
They opted to go with WILK TV, channel 34, so I don't think the 1946 FM station ever hit the air.
Channel 34 went off the air when its equipment was combined with channel 16's, which had been WARM TV in Scranton, and WNEP was born.

One defunct station that was on the air was the old 92.3 WQAN-FM. It was the Scranton Times FM and was on air from 1946 or 47 to around 1955 or so (on before 630 AM came on). I've found info laying around and I've met old announcers who described the operation to me ...
Of course WQAN-FM is the predecessor to WEZX...
Click to expand...

I don't recall WQAN, but when WEJL - FM (106.9) came on, a few years before becoming WEZX, they seemed to have a problem - at least in the Wilkes-Barre area - with a self-interfereing signal,
which would cause the radio to beep in a very annoying fashion about every 20 seconds. I don't know the story behind that, but it made the station quite unlistenable.
 
Zenith Transoceanic said:
The story may be true, but WOWO was at 1190, and WGBI originally ran at around 880, if I am not mistaken.
Of course, we all listened to WOWO at night 'in the dark as kids', and we all assumed that it ran 50,000 watts at night, but now it is listed as "Nighttime Power 9800 Watts", so either they reduced the night time power, or it always was lower than their daytime 50K.
Click to expand...

WGBI was on 880 before the Big Shift in 1941. However, at that time WOWO was also on a different frequency. I want to say 1160 but don't remember for sure & don't have my references handy.

WOWO was indeed 50,000 watts at night for many years. The nighttime reduction to 9,800 watts is relatively recent -- a NYC station on the same frequency wanted to increase nighttime power; they bought WOWO & made the reduction to allow that to happen.
 
When WARD moved to 1550, we went to 10,000 watts daytime and a mere 500 watts at night. With the 500 you could barely get it in Wilkes-Barre. If I remember correctly the drop in power was to protect a Canadian station.
 
People Talking about reducing power at night brought back a lot of memories. When I worked at WMPT (South Williamsport) in 1968 (Class IV on 1450) we were granted 1KW daytime. Dave Castlebury brought this HUGE Raytheon 1KW and our then engineer Alan Preuss designed a antenna and audio switch to change between the old Gates 250 (older than the Chief Engineer) and the Raytheon. Dave was quite a sports fan and lived in Muncy, Pa, out of the nighttime range of the station) but he wanted to listen to the high school games we broadcast. He would drive out to near the railroad tracks at Muncy and there he could hear the station. We would also be told to raise to daytime power BUT, if someone came to the parking lot, lower the power right away. I'm pretty sure hat the FCC would have had field strength readings to dispute any claims we might have made that we were on night time power.

One other side note, WMPT was located a few hundred yards fro the Little League World Series stadium, in the early days of ABC coverage they would ask us to reduce power during any of the games they were broadcasting because our RF was casuing lines in their video.
 
Kelly Watts said:
People Talking about reducing power at night brought back a lot of memories. When I worked at WMPT (South Williamsport) in 1968 (Class IV on 1450) we were granted 1KW daytime. Dave Castlebury brought this HUGE Raytheon 1KW and our then engineer Alan Preuss designed a antenna and audio switch to change between the old Gates 250 (older than the Chief Engineer) and the Raytheon. Dave was quite a sports fan and lived in Muncy, Pa, out of the nighttime range of the station) but he wanted to listen to the high school games we broadcast. He would drive out to near the railroad tracks at Muncy and there he could hear the station. We would also be told to raise to daytime power BUT, if someone came to the parking lot, lower the power right away. I'm pretty sure hat the FCC would have had field strength readings to dispute any claims we might have made that we were on night time power.
Click to expand...

Ironically, in 1983 the FCC granted an across-the-board nighttime power increase to Class IV stations; if WMPT was still around today (it isn't) it could legally leave the 1kw on 24/7...
 
1450 In Williamsport was always iffy because of State College and Pottsville. Urban legend has it that when Dave Castlebury wanted to build WMPT he waited till there was a long period of time without rain before he took the field strength readings.

Oh, back when the FCC required an independent frequency check and calibration, WMPT used Dick Ziel in Lockport, N.Y, (Near Buffalo) I can rememebr there were nights when it took Dick a long time to find WMPT's signal in the quagmire of 1450. While he was hunting we would run a 1KC tone to hep him find it. Ah the good old days!
 
WOWO blanketed the northeast at night back in the day until the owners of NYC based daytimer, WLIB on 1190, purchased WOWO for the purpose of downgrading WOWO's signal, upgraded WLIB, and then sold WOWO.
WOWO's strongest night direction went right into Fort Wayne, now it barely puts enough signal into the COL to be legal. When they had their class 1-B status, a night null faced toward the then KLIF, 1190 in Dallas - Fort Worth.
 
scottsan said:
When WARD moved to 1550, we went to 10,000 watts daytime and a mere 500 watts at night. With the 500 you could barely get it in Wilkes-Barre. If I remember correctly the drop in power was to protect a Canadian station.
Click to expand...
You're right, Scott. That Canadian station is 1550 CBE, Windsor. In the mid 70s, I programmed 1550 WBVM, Utica, NY which protected CBE Windsor to the max: 1 kW Daytime, No PSA. Small consolation, it was non-directional. Signed on in December at 7:30, signed off at 4:30. The ultimate daytimer. Brutal.
 
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