• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

AM radio: A dying breed

DavidEduardo said:
What else can they do? Even with the new tower location, the station is a rimshot. It was good "back in the day" as a classical station, but has never found a niche ever since.

As Mediafrog and Ryan say, this is a way of cutting the losses during the pandemic and looking for future possibilities, including a sale. The format is way too old to be commercially successful.
Click to expand...
Guess I'm "way too old", because in the home of TD Jakes, Marvin Sapp, Kirk Franklin, Fredrick D. Haynes, and Fred Hammond, I feel like this market needs a representation of that..

I know most of you guys on here are radio professionals and are all about the numbers side of things. I'm on the other side. I'm a radio listener, a radio hobbyist, and a aircheck collector. Too bad today's radio is all about the almighty dollar. Not the listener anymore...
 
Radio has always been a business and driven by money. It takes money to operate a station. It was easier to make before 1986 when so many new stations came on the air. Today there are triple the number of stations but not triple the revenue. In other words one station's revenue was split three ways not long after 1986. These days with all the various advertising venues, there is even less money to go around. Even in Christian radio major ministries went from buying time to offering a product on their broadcast and sharing the revenue with stations. In other words, stations ended up with pennies on the dollar from the days when ministries paid for their airtime. Sure, it would be nice to have TD Jakes, Marvin Sapp and the other cream of the crop ministries you mention on a station but I suspect it is hard to get the dollars to work out today given the current business models. Make no mistake, it has always been about money. In fact I find it hard to phantom the investment of building a station 40 years ago, paying for a fulltime staff and laying out cash for all the other requirements the FCC demanded. I was in a town of 3,400 at a daytime only with a fulltime staff of three plus a first class licensed broadcast engineer. We couldn't afford a dedicated line for a radio network or an AP or UPI ticker for our promised 20% news commitment to the FCC. Our costs then were $5,000 a month and in the very best year the station only did $70,000 but typically lost about $10,000 to $20,000 a year.
 
neosolbrudda said:
Guess I'm "way too old", because in the home of TD Jakes, Marvin Sapp, Kirk Franklin, Fredrick D. Haynes, and Fred Hammond, I feel like this market needs a representation of that..

I know most of you guys on here are radio professionals and are all about the numbers side of things. I'm on the other side. I'm a radio listener, a radio hobbyist, and a aircheck collector. Too bad today's radio is all about the almighty dollar. Not the listener anymore...
Click to expand...
For the last 100 years, lasting and successful stations have all been based on the concept of financial gain. In early years, companies built stations to promote their brands of radios, insurance companies, newspapers, and other businesses. WGN was the voice of The World’s Greatest Newspaper, and WLS was there for the world’s Greatest Store. Earle C Anthony built KFI to sell Packards.

Soon, advertisers discovered radio had immense selling power, and we got radio networks and major advertisers creating national sponsored shows... about 95 years ago.

Good programming attracted listeners that advertisers wanted to talk to. Then, about 92 years ago, we got ratings and advertisers could pick shows that talked to their best consumers. And show that did not reach potential customers died.

Nothing has changed, really, since then. Radio strives for the largest audience that advertisers want to reach. If we satisfy listeners that advertisers want to reach, we prosper... and those listeners get music and entertainment and news for free.
 
Last edited:
One of the most interesting comparisons is U.S. radio in the mid-60's vs. radio in the UK.

In the US, Motown and the British Invasion were exploding on pop radio. We heard songs from those two varieties constantly on Top 40 stations in every market, big and small, across the country. In the UK, the BBC had a few hours of pop music, very carefully screened and presented by presenters who sounded much like they would prefer something a lot more traditional, perhaps from the prior century, in fact.

It took stations like Radio Luxembourg and pirates like Radio Caroline to play those new songs all day long... either on distant stations from a little principality in Europe or from ships floating at anchor outside the territorial waters of the UK. Guess which stations got most of the listening by those under 30 or so?

What made Radio Luxembourg and the pirates possible? Advertising. Those stations understood a need, and filled it. It was the desire to make a few pounds that drove enterprising souls to create those stations, not just a fondness for Herman's Hermits or those other guys from Liverpool...
 
neosolbrudda said:
I will let you guys worry about the business side of it all. I'm very happy and content with being the listener/collector.
Click to expand...
This is a business and most companies operate on the bottom line. But you do make a point, with 3 gospel heavyweights that live in the market that Black Gospel could not be viable. It's a whole lot of factors, but the main one is IMO not having the format on a Cedar Hill stick. It can be done and it can be a money maker, its how you market the station.
 
salemjedi54 said:
This is a business and most companies operate on the bottom line. But you do make a point, with 3 gospel heavyweights that live in the market that Black Gospel could not be viable. It's a whole lot of factors, but the main one is IMO not having the format on a Cedar Hill stick. It can be done and it can be a money maker, its how you market the station.
Click to expand...
And I thought this area was a part of the "Bible Belt"... We sure have other religious formats covered here. Why is Black Gospel on the outside looking in?...
 
neosolbrudda said:
And I thought this area was a part of the "Bible Belt"... We sure have other religious formats covered here. Why is Black Gospel on the outside looking in?...
Click to expand...
I always thought that the Bible Belt was Kentucky, Tennessee, South and North Carolina, Georgia, Alabama and Arkansas, with Nashville as the defacto capital of this belt (as well as the real capital of Tennessee). Although Texas, is in itself religious, the big cities, including DFW, are definitely not, and the same could be said for Atlanta, Memphis, Nashville, and New Orleans, etc.
 
neosolbrudda said:
And I thought this area was a part of the "Bible Belt"... We sure have other religious formats covered here. Why is Black Gospel on the outside looking in?...
Click to expand...
As you yourself mentioned in your first post when you started this discussion thread, there are licenses being turned in, and others, especially on the AM dial, have sold at "fire sale" prices. If you're truly interested in getting this type of programming and content on the air and you believe there's a market for it and you believe there are enough advertisers willing to open their wallets and make it financially viable, get yourself some financial backers with similar interests to yours and go for it! Or, you might try finding a church that has a built-in group of volunteers to help run the station who might consider the idea.
 
I think I'd approach the offices of these ministries with a plan to acquire a signal with a decent coverage and present a business plan to monetize the station. There's some decent syndicated music programming to save on initial costs of air talent. It might be pretty easy. Just remember Black Gospel is an older demo that ad agencies are not buying so all advertising must be direct. Direct buys can be tricky. You have to have enough listeners in an area to actually produce results from the advertising business trade area. I always found Christian radio that does any teaching & preaching segments almost never has decent number of advertisers. The Shepherd's Guide might be a nice resource for potential advertisers.
 
Last edited:
b-turner said:
I think I'd approach the offices of these ministries with a plan to acquire a signal with a decent coverage and present a business plan to monetize the station. There's some decent syndicated music programming to save on initial costs of air talent. It might be pretty easy. Just remember Black Gospel is an older demo that ad agencies are not buying so all advertising must be direct. Direct buys can be tricky. You have to have enough listeners in an area to actually produce results from the advertising business trade area. I always found Christian radio that does any teaching & preaching segments almost never has decent number of advertisers. The Shepherd's Guide might be a nice resource for potential advertisers.
Click to expand...
Here is what y’all don’t know, gospel music appeals to more than Big Momma. You can do a black gospel station that appeals to 18-49 black adults. Trust me the music is there and the money is there.
 
salemjedi54 said:
This is a business and most companies operate on the bottom line. But you do make a point, with 3 gospel heavyweights that live in the market that Black Gospel could not be viable. It's a whole lot of factors, but the main one is IMO not having the format on a Cedar Hill stick. It can be done and it can be a money maker, its how you market the station.
Click to expand...
Black gospel, even when done on better facilities with as young as possible a music mix, gets mostly 55+ audiences.

Ethnic communities have a younger average age. Black and Hispanic buys go against 18-49 or 25-49 or some subset. That means that a Black Gospel format would not get on the agency buys targeting African Americans, and selling a "religion based" station to local accounts is tough.

Christian Contemporary for mostly non-ethnic listeners tends to be strongest in the sales demos, even if the biggest operator does not sell advertising. But groups like Salem do extremely well with that format in some markets because the listeners are appealing to advertisers.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Black gospel, even when done on better facilities with as young as possible a music mix, gets mostly 55+ audiences.

Ethnic communities have a younger average age. Black and Hispanic buys go against 18-49 or 25-49 or some subset. That means that a Black Gospel format would not get on the agency buys targeting African Americans, and selling a "religion based" station to local accounts is tough.

Christian Contemporary for mostly non-ethnic listeners tends to be strongest in the sales demos, even if the biggest operator does not sell advertising. But groups like Salem do extremely well with that format in some markets because the listeners are appealing to advertisers.
Click to expand...
So can you explain the success WHAL in Memphis has had?
 
neosolbrudda said:
So can you explain the success WHAL in Memphis has had?
Click to expand...
Memphis is nearly half black and it is in the south where there is a lot of religious tradition. While the 6+ numbers look strong, i bet the numbers in the younger demos are bad and i bet the power ratio of ratings to revenue isn't great either. But it is finding a decent audience even if that is likely on the older side. That doesn't mean they are killing it in billings though. And it also doesn't imply that any success in Memphis would translate to success in Texas.
 
Ryan Williams said:
Memphis is nearly half black and it is in the south where there is a lot of religious tradition. While the 6+ numbers look strong, i bet the numbers in the younger demos are bad and i bet the power ratio of ratings to revenue isn't great either. But it is finding a decent audience even if that is likely on the older side. That doesn't mean they are killing it in billings though. And it also doesn't imply that any success in Memphis would translate to success in Texas.
Click to expand...
The station is about 12th or 13th in revenue, and it is #2 or #3 from 18-35 to 35-64 and 65+. It is very broad and works well in all demos. But it has a power ratio of 0.4 even with those big numbers.

Most of the audience is 55 and over; it looks well in younger demos because those age groups are highly competitive and a smaller share will still look very good. In 55+, there are fewer direct competitors.

KJMS, the hip hop / r&b station outbills it by 4 to 1.

And Memphis has a long tradition of successful Black stations, going back over half a century with WDIA.
 
I obviously have no way of knowing who listens my local gospel station, but I do know what I've heard, and that is mainly older (sounding) callers asking for prayers for healing and financial blessings. No major advertiser is going to go after an audience that is in no position to purchase its goods or services. And when you're dealing with the mom-and-pop advertisers or new ministries that are interested in this format, you run the very real risk of getting stiffed.

It seems like the only way a gospel station can keep going is if the owner has other profitable properties and is prepared to take the loss with gospel. (I'm not saying this to be mean or judgmental and quite frankly, I could use healing and a financial blessing myself!)
 
DavidEduardo said:
The station is about 12th or 13th in revenue, and it is #2 or #3 from 18-35 to 35-64 and 65+. It is very broad and works well in all demos. But it has a power ratio of 0.4 even with those big numbers.

Most of the audience is 55 and over; it looks well in younger demos because those age groups are highly competitive and a smaller share will still look very good. In 55+, there are fewer direct competitors.

KJMS, the hip hop / r&b station outbills it by 4 to 1.

And Memphis has a long tradition of successful Black stations, going back over half a century with WDIA.
Click to expand...
Have any of y’all actually worked at a black gospel radio station in Dallas/Ft. Worth?
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom