Which is why I don't understand the attraction to the hobby. What you describe ended with the use of syndicated overnight shows.
What most DXers seek is the signal, not the program.
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AM Radio is dying
- Thread starter Ronnie Milsoup
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Which is why I don't understand the attraction to the hobby. What you describe ended with the use of syndicated overnight shows.
What most DXers seek is the signal, not the program.
Actually it was Harry Truman who famously mimicked Kaltenborn’s delivery, after the newscaster made one of his rare mistakes and called the 1948 election for Thomas Dewey.
Last paragraph of this article: About H. V. Kaltenborn
Film clip of Truman imitating Kaltenborn:
Thanks!
How many AM stations are there with light or no processing? You could also "unprocess" an FM signal, so it would still sound better than an AM signal.
If that previous poster was me, no, Ham radio licenses in the US were at an all time high 3 years ago. They topped out above 700K or so, and they just started dropping. Look at the numbers over the past 5 years or more.
And any perusal of the ham bands will indicate that many of those licensees are inactive hams. Even 20M is nothing like it was 20 years ago.
A lot of DXers are as much, if not more involved in the radio hobby than hams. Sure, there are some ham contacts that have actual convos. But there's a lot of other ones that are nothing more than a quick contact, especially on FT8. And even on SSB, I've heard countless 'you're 5 and 9, 73' "QSO's", where sometimes a location and exchange of calls is the only thing given. On CW it's usually "5NN 5NN 73 TU dit dit" contacts.
Neither aspect of the radio hobby can claim to be superior to the other one. The thing DX'ers and hams have in common, however, is they obviously love radio, and love seeing how far away they can hear a signal, or contact another signal.
Of course, none of this really matters to the topic of the thread -- whether AM is dying. It's not just AM Radio -- Radio is dying. Longwave and Shortwave went first. AM is following SW. FM will follow AM. Ham radio, which was brought up in this thread, will also probably eventually go the way of the Dodo. Who needs a $1000 ham radio and antenna to contact Australia when you've got a phone?
As a radio fan, I'm not necessarily applauding all that, but it's the reality.
And as BigA frequently says on here -- Radio is a lot of different things. He's right. The definition is changing. There are a few Pandora channels I actually like. I prefer OTA Radio, but there are channels on Pandora (which came with my phone) that have some genres I like to hear, genres that aren't played that much on OTA radio.
Is Pandora "radio"? Probably.
Many of the hams you're not hearing are using digital modes now, not digital voice, but digital data transmissions. Check out any WebSDR some night and you'll see an abundance of signals in the lower portion of most bands from 40 meters down to 10 meters, but when you try to listen to them, all you'll hear is a sort of electronic warbling. Ham radio isn't quite dead yet, and it's likely that the next two or three years -- the solar activity cycle peak -- will spark new interest in the hobby and increase the number of new licenses in the U.S. and elsewhere.
Except the ones that limit their range through geofencing, which is what you've been predicting that U.S. stations will be doing at an increasing pace as fees for music increase. What's changed?
Side note: FDR had a wonderful voice. I wouldn't mind hearing a newscaster who sounded like him today.
Radio is a means of transmission. It is literally sound transmission via radio waves.
Pandora and anything else that doesn't go through a transmitter is audio.
Radio is in decline. Audio is not.
K.M. Richards
Program Director, The Eighties Channel™
May I politely suggest, then, that you choose your words a bit more cautiously when talking about us consultants? We've been attacked so often over the years -- usually blamed for things that happened which were not our doing -- that our skins are no longer thick enough to easily shake off more of the same.
Perhaps I should have just said, all that local color became more pastel...
What was the context of that comment? Because the major radio companies aren't geofencing, and I don't expect them to. They target their web ads to the user ISPs. Small operators are the ones who tend to geofence because their advertising tends to be more local. On the other hand, if they use a streaming supplier that also targets web ads to the user, then there's no need to geofence. For example, stations that use TuneIn.
I didn't realize you were referring only to the major players in radio on the occasions you mentioned geofencing. But don't the stations that use TuneIn still have to fork over more money each year for rights to music, even if they've had the burden of triple royalties for unionized voice-over talent lifted? You're right in that I've run into geofencing much more on the smaller stations, but I was under the impression that you thought fewer and fewer stations of all sizes would be streaming in the future if costs kept increasing.
Once again, what was the context?
TuneIn pays the royalties for music that airs on their site.
The only stations who are complaining are the small ones. The major ones are selling a national platform that would be restricted by geofencing. The music industry keeps attacking iHeart for opposing their royalty. Yet iHeart is a major payer to SoundExchange, and has offered any artists a royalty if they register for it.
I don't think that's true, but for the sake of argument, let's say you're right. How do you account for being able to drive across the U.S. along I-90 with a 2M/440 radio scanning all the major simplex and repeater frequencies and after three days, the squelch broke only for repeater ID's?
I take care of eight, soon to be nine repeaters in my home county outside of Washington, D.C. Other than one 2M, which has occasional traffic, all the others will sit silently for weeks other than ID's. Neighboring communities are the same. Lots of licensed hams, but are inactive.
The same goes for HF. The bands have been crap for years, and many hams either live in an HOA and can't conveniently use outdoor antennas, or the noise floor and poor band conditions don't make it worthwhile.
I tell you what. If Hams don't get more active on 2M, 220, and 440 bands, they're going to lose them to competing use.
2m/440 is a victim of technology. Before cell phones, the only way to communicate from a vehicle (I will ignore CB for this discussion) was a VF/UHF radio. When I first started in the hobby, there were repeaters that actually had to have a net control during rush hour. Autopatch was really a significant driver. Then came cell phones. Mostly, nowadays it seems that repeaters are used primarily for nets, and special events (e.g. Marathons) and that is it. Not a lot of people talking on them any more.
You're right, Net's are the only activity on some repeaters in a given week. So, the question remains, where are all these hams you claim have passed their test?
As I responded earlier to another poster, many are using digital modes on the HF bands, letting their computers do most of the communicating. But they're still licensed. Also, while leisurely "rag chews" are fading into history, Parks on the Air brings thousands of hams out of hiding every weekend on phone and CW to rack up hello/goodbye contacts from, to and between state and national parks, with certificates being the goal.
I still enjoy AM in some capacity. I’m in my late twenties but I don’t think twice about listening to AM for sports programming or other content that I want to hear. Yeah, AM is definitely on its way out, but I think the big clear channel stations still have some relevancy. I wouldn’t complain if every AM decided to close up shop outside of the clear channel AM stations that remain (with some notable exceptions for AMs that put out a signal that’s at least comparable).
Realistically, are many AM stations out there that probably need to close up shop. For example, I don’t see any practical use for many of the graveyard band stations that still exist in 2024. There are many other lower-powered stations that probably also should pack it in. If you were left with, say, 3-5 “big” stations in most big cities, I think that would make some sense.
Using my home market (Seattle) as an example, it would be nice to keep 570 KVI, 710 KIRO, 950 KJR, and 1000 KNWN. These are the stations you can reliably hear around the entire region without reception issues (24/7). You’re not going to get FM quality audio from any of them, but they’re easily the most listenable. The rest of the AMs in this market all have significant limitations.
On the topic of dxing:
I was always fascinated with the idea of hearing a program on the radio that somebody else in a far off location is listening at the same exact time that you are. Maybe other people in 2024 don’t understand it, but I get enjoyment from dxing from time to time.
The same principle applies to why I still listen to the radio over using Spotify. My partner set up Spotify on my phone and is always begging me to use it. She doesn’t understand why I would rather listen to the radio but I prefer it. It makes me feel like I have company because I know somebody else is listening to the same exact thing that I am. For some reason I enjoy that.
Realistically, are many AM stations out there that probably need to close up shop. For example, I don’t see any practical use for many of the graveyard band stations that still exist in 2024. There are many other lower-powered stations that probably also should pack it in. If you were left with, say, 3-5 “big” stations in most big cities, I think that would make some sense.
Using my home market (Seattle) as an example, it would be nice to keep 570 KVI, 710 KIRO, 950 KJR, and 1000 KNWN. These are the stations you can reliably hear around the entire region without reception issues (24/7). You’re not going to get FM quality audio from any of them, but they’re easily the most listenable. The rest of the AMs in this market all have significant limitations.
On the topic of dxing:
I was always fascinated with the idea of hearing a program on the radio that somebody else in a far off location is listening at the same exact time that you are. Maybe other people in 2024 don’t understand it, but I get enjoyment from dxing from time to time.
The same principle applies to why I still listen to the radio over using Spotify. My partner set up Spotify on my phone and is always begging me to use it. She doesn’t understand why I would rather listen to the radio but I prefer it. It makes me feel like I have company because I know somebody else is listening to the same exact thing that I am. For some reason I enjoy that.
This should go into the Ham radio section, so this will be my last comment on the subject:
HF hasn't really been useful for digital modes due to band conditions, but I agree that DStar, DMR, and Yaesu Fusion, has taken advantage of Internet connectivity linking repeater rooms and reflectors all over the country. But the thing is, even all those digital modes of ham radio is relatively quiet. Was looking at our DPlus dashboard the other day, and even Reflector 001 was quiet for hours. Same with our Wires-X repeater parked in a normally busy room called 'America KC Wide', over 125 repeaters or nodes sitting in the room, but silent for hours.
And yes, I know some folks who have done the parks and islands on the air, but in between the two local clubs, there were two who did either. In my example, those are retired folks with ample time on their hands.
My last word on this is this: The POTA/SOTA (Summits) types seem to be on the younger side, not retirees. I'm not a ham, but do a lot of casual listening, and often run the calls I hear through QRZ.com to find out more about the operators. The POTA/SOTA folks don't seem to be the same bunch you hear complaining about their prostates, the weather, or how this country is going to pot.
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