AM station Downgrading

[Harvey_Dogg]

The easiest way to start an internet station is to join Live365. They have plans starting at $59 a month. They take care of the license fees and reporting for you.

 

[ContinuousWave]

Most translators would not meet the many requirements for primary FM stations including second and third adjacent protection, "two-way" protection of service and interfering contours, directional antenna standards (no changes in patterns over 2 dB per 10 degrees, no forward to back of more than -15 dB, etc.). Translators, like LPFMs are guests on the dial. The only way to properly migrate AM stations is to reallocate TV channels 5 and 6 to FM broadcasting and extend the band to 76 MHz, thus meaning everyone would have to purchase a new radio. A more logical approach in our current state is to properly market HD Radio and migrate more AM listening to HD subchannels on AMs that are co-owned with FMs.

Why do you keep bringing up the TV5 and 6 idea when you and others have been told on FB and by prior FCC actions, that's NOT GONNA happen...its a dead horse..quit kicking it. It's dead

 

[ContinuousWave]

As for streaming, I've been testing it in my SUV using my 5G phone with unlimited data...when it works its great....but is it perfect?? Not even close.. I get interruptions, jitter,sometimes loss of the stream for no reason..PITA having to restart it in traffic. On the open highway it's a little easier since I have few distractions compared to city traffic. There have been places the stream will quit but I have full service on the phone, full bars on the indicator so WTH?? Streaming may work fixed but as an in motion service, it's still FAR from being 5 9s or better....SiriusXM with its problems IMPO is better right now...as they lose operational sats with no planned replacements that will change.

 

[Greg Strickland]

This is a good conversation. All the best to everyone. I am sympathetic to a small-town AM owner who finds their station is not sustainable.

 

[Michi]

Why do you keep bringing up the TV5 and 6 idea when you and others have been told on FB and by prior FCC actions, that's NOT GONNA happen...its a dead horse..quit kicking it. It's dead

If you read the entire post, I stated that spectrum expansion in the USA would not necessarily work given the current state of radio and streaming in this country. Instead, the industries (both the broadcasting and consumer electronics) need to do a better job at marketing HD Radio so it can be better leveraged to be used as a replacement for many (but not all) AM stations. We also need to come to the realization that second and third adjacent (especially the latter) protections are really not necessary, especially for lower powered stations.

But putting the many reasons why expanded spectrum will not work aside, the matter is simple, there is simply not enough room in the existing 100 channels to migrate AM stations (especially with the existing second and third adjacent protection requirements). This is not Mexico.. we simply have too many FM stations already (thanks 80-90)... When there are only so many cells in the prison, you have to either have to build more cells or you have to double and triple up the cells you have.

The reality is the only way that FM could extend to 76 MHz, you would need an act of Congress and we all know that will never happen. However, with more TV stations jettisoning low band for the brighter waters of UHF, it is the only true long term solution if we are that serious about "saving" AM broadcast stations. Most of the rest of the world has abandoned VHF (especially low band) for TV. The spectrum is useless for broadband use. Perhaps, some decade, we will follow Ireland and give the whole low band to the hams. (The thought of running ATV on 54-60 during a cycle peak does sound inviting...)

 

[R.D.P.]

we simply have too many FM stations already (thanks 80-90)... When there are only so many cells in the prison, you have to either have to build more cells or you have to double and triple up the cells you have.

I also know that if you expand the FM band, then everyone and their brother will want to locate to these new spots and that would further clog up the dial and cause many communities to have more radio stations than they're able to support.​

Dan <><

 

[DavidEduardo]

But putting the many reasons why expanded spectrum will not work aside, the matter is simple, there is simply not enough room in the existing 100 channels to migrate AM stations (especially with the existing second and third adjacent protection requirements). This is not Mexico.. we simply have too many FM stations already (thanks 80-90)... When there are only so many cells in the prison, you have to either have to build more cells or you have to double and triple up the cells you have.

Mexico was already over-radioed on FM, given that AM had died in the late 90's for the most part. Mexico has an average age about 15 years younger than that of the US, and those under 40 are almost entirely FM listeners or users of streaming apps.

If the second adjacent protections were eliminated, as they have been for decades in much of the world, we'd be able to legitimize existing translators and close perhaps 75% of all AMs in the US.

The reality is the only way that FM could extend to 76 MHz, you would need an act of Congress and we all know that will never happen. However, with more TV stations jettisoning low band for the brighter waters of UHF, it is the only true long term solution if we are that serious about "saving" AM broadcast stations.

Given that nearly half of all radio listening is in the car, and the average car is over 12 years old in the US, adding to the band will not work economically.

Any solution has to be market driven. New bands won't work and getting widespread HD usage will take too long... if ever.

 

[gr8oldies]

As for streaming, I've been testing it in my SUV using my 5G phone with unlimited data...when it works its great....but is it perfect?? Not even close.. I get interruptions, jitter,sometimes loss of the stream for no reason..PITA having to restart it in traffic. On the open highway it's a little easier since I have few distractions compared to city traffic. There have been places the stream will quit but I have full service on the phone, full bars on the indicator so WTH?? Streaming may work fixed but as an in motion service, it's still FAR from being 5 9s or better....SiriusXM with its problems IMPO is better right now...as they lose operational sats with no planned replacements that will change.

Much as folks here want to chop those towers down, we're nowhere near being able to do that

 

[semoochie]

Mexico was already over-radioed on FM, given that AM had died in the late 90's for the most part. Mexico has an average age about 15 years younger than that of the US, and those under 40 are almost entirely FM listeners or users of streaming apps.

If the second adjacent protections were eliminated, as they have been for decades in much of the world, we'd be able to legitimize existing translators and close perhaps 75% of all AMs in the US.

Given that nearly half of all radio listening is in the car, and the average car is over 12 years old in the US, adding to the band will not work economically.

Any solution has to be market driven. New bands won't work and getting widespread HD usage will take too long... if ever.

Are you saying that life expectancy in Mexico is significantly shorter than the US?

 

[DavidEduardo]

Are you saying that life expectancy in Mexico is significantly shorter than the US?

No, family size is much larger, and the population overall is growing. That means that there are always more young people than older ones.

}

Without immigration, US population growth is negative.

 

[Andrew Skotdal]

Radio Insight is Reporting an AM station in Portland is Downgrading, Any Information about it?

Amador Bustos sold the land under the KQRR transmitter site. KQRR shut that site down on Monday and the phasor and some of the gear are going to a non-profit organization in Texas. In the meantime, KQRR is moving and will diplex and transmit from an existing omni-directional tower on the Columbia River. The downgrade to 5000 W Day/50 W Night for KQRR made a dramatic improvement on the KKXA nighttime signal. I live near the Montlake/UW area of Seattle and KKXA is now audible all the way home (though the static gets going on my terrible car radio after Northgate). Listening reports would be welcomed. The Nighttime Interference Free contour was 44.5 mV/m for KKXA. The new NIF is now 7 mV/m. I used to lose KKXA around the I-5/405 interchange going south some nights due to skywave. Not any more.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

Amador Bustos sold the land under the KQRR transmitter site. KQRR shut that site down on Monday and the phasor and some of the gear are going to a non-profit organization in Texas. In the meantime, KQRR is moving and will diplex and transmit from an existing omni-directional tower on the Columbia River. The downgrade to 5000 W Day/50 W Night for KQRR made a dramatic improvement on the KKXA nighttime signal. I live near the Montlake/UW area of Seattle and KKXA is now audible all the way home (though the static gets going on my terrible car radio after Northgate). Listening reports would be welcomed. The Nighttime Interference Free contour was 44.5 mV/m for KKXA. The new NIF is now 7 mV/m. I used to lose KKXA around the I-5/405 interchange going south some nights due to skywave. Not any more.

Andrew
I could hear KKXA and KQRR up here at night some 1500 miles away incentral alaska.. often, both at the same time.. was an interesting mix
****

 

[semoochie]

Amador Bustos sold the land under the KQRR transmitter site. KQRR shut that site down on Monday and the phasor and some of the gear are going to a non-profit organization in Texas. In the meantime, KQRR is moving and will diplex and transmit from an existing omni-directional tower on the Columbia River. The downgrade to 5000 W Day/50 W Night for KQRR made a dramatic improvement on the KKXA nighttime signal. I live near the Montlake/UW area of Seattle and KKXA is now audible all the way home (though the static gets going on my terrible car radio after Northgate). Listening reports would be welcomed. The Nighttime Interference Free contour was 44.5 mV/m for KKXA. The new NIF is now 7 mV/m. I used to lose KKXA around the I-5/405 interchange going south some nights due to skywave. Not any more.

As I mentioned in another thread, the Oaks Park transmitter site is on the Willamette River, not the Columbia, which is nowhere near the community of license. The FCC site lists KQRR's application as "pending", so if they shut down their licensed site, they have nowhere to go and no translator, unless they took away 1150's, which lost its transmitter site years ago and is temporarily operating with TIS equipment, until they can diplex with KBPS, which is moving its tower and got slowed down by the pandemic!