AM Station for sale..Which one?

[jry]

Isn't MOH doing a mix of sports and talk?
Some local High School stuff?

Anyways, its a class 4 (i've owned a few of them) they receive a ton of interference. What can you do? In fact, they are doing pretty well with what they have.

Vern is an old friend. When i was a kid, coming up in the biz and landed my first VP of O job, he gave me grade A treatment.

Now, he is ailing a bit. Doesn't need our criticism, rather, our prayers.

 

[pioneer71]

I didn't know the owner was ill. My prayers are with him and his family. They are running both talk and sports.

I am sure the owner bought the station thinking he can make some money. There are some things the station can do to increase profits and audience interest. As I said they do a solid job on high school sports. I am not trying to dump on WMOH . Look at how WSAI that is only airing Fox Sports when they have another All Sports station in the buiding. What's up witht WCKY not even airing a local morning show on a 50,000 watt station.. I give 1160 credit for putting Andy Furman on in the morning.


I am not trying to be critical but you can make money even with WMOH's limited range . They have, within their power, to present a far better morning show with some interviews, phones and add a sense of directon. Their product they present is lack of effort. Why does the morning show sound the way it does?

Let's face it --if your station is known for the best local news coverage,solid high school coverage and dependabe traffic reports and a morning show that gives the audience a real reason to listen you can improve yor revenue stream.. I got a buddy in a very smal market that has a very solid revenue base off their web site. Have you checked out WMOH's web site? Again these are elements within a station's control.

I hate to see a station missed the opportunity to improve their presentation. As I mentoned their news coverage is a shell of what it used to be. Why?

I love AM stations because you have to be very creatve to make money. Where there are a lot of FM's that sound nothing more than a music I-pod. Listen to WARM 98 where they are down to only two local jocks a day. Check out other AM's in other markets this size and see how they sound. and what their web sites looks like..

 

[stereolane]

WMOH has been irrelevant for a long time. However, the mixture of talk & sports is better than 24/7 sports, when that is already available in so many other places. They could have Metro Traffic / Shadow provide news in AM / PM drive, but sadly, Cincinnati is now covered by the Metro / Shadow Detroit office. It could be done, but would be an extreme case of "phoning it in"... and rip 'n read news content. The Lakota Schools have a radio station - I can only guess that there are students there who would take a job like that. At least they would be LOCAL.

Switching WMOH to classic country would be asinine. It sounds good the way it is, but they need to take it up a notch.

As to the value question... like most AM stations, WMOH is likely worth whatever the real estate is worth.

 

[Elephant]

I'm not sure why you guys don't seem to understand the WSAI situation.  Let's be honest.  Clear Channel owns it because they don't want somebody else to own it.  It's the weakest of the four good AM signals, but it could still be a problem for them if the right ownership got it.  Don't forget that it had pretty damn good numbers when it was Homer.  Put the Real Talk format on 1360, and it's a whole new ballgame.  They could sell it, but what would they get for it?  Not much probably.  Maybe they'd sell it to a minority or religious group. 

The strategy seems pretty simple to me.  ESPN wanted the big signal, and chances are they had somewhere else on FM to go if CC didn't make the move to WCKY.  Part of that is having Mike & Mike in the morning.  Not really a bad move, because you'll notice WCKY's numbers have more than doubled since the switch.  That's why there's no local morning show.  And, why would they put a local morning show on WSAI to compete?  They want an outlet for CC's FOX Sports Radio, and they also want control of ESPN Radio.  Does anybody remember the rumor about ESPN Radio going to 96.5 a couple years ago?  CC does NOT want something like that to happen.  Look at how successful these FM sports stations are in similar markets like Pittsburgh and St. Louis. 

As for WMOH, stereolane I think you're partially correct.  WMOH has probably lost some relevance, but it's still a community icon. And Metro isn't providing news anymore, unless you're Radio One and it was a done deal already.

 

[BobOnTheJob]

Isn't 1360's ground system in bad shape? I doubt CC cares about it much since it isn't a money maker like WLW. Even 10 years ago it had a better signal than is has now.

The condition of a ground system has less to do with an AM signal than it gets credit for. This topic has been discussed on the Engineering boards & even in the extreme case of going from a few ground rods to a full ground system, the difference in signal was in the single digit percents IIRC. Factoring out the fact that the Cincinnati metro was less spread out 45 years ago, the AM band is a different animal today & the factors that are often ignored include directional antennas that protect WSAI possibly not being in compliance & therefore sending more interference this way and here's the biggie : All of these stations on 1360 that operate with low power at night (example, WFLW Monticello,KY--just 170 miles from WSAI) did not operate at night at the time. 20 watts isn't always easy to measure...are all of these stations actually operating at their licensed flea power? Are all of them powering down at all from their day power? Are some of them purposely staying on day power on nights they air high school sports (yes, this does happen)? The sad fact is that AM compliance was once sacred. A station couldn't meet it's night time license terms and it went off the air at sundown--no questions asked. WSAI had a fire in 1969 that didn't allow their directional antenna to work...they went off the air at sunset--even though they had huge ratings. Eventually they got special permission to operate with 250 watts at night. The fact is that AM compliance rates somewhere below stocking the restrooms with paper towels...and the result is that the AM dial has more interference--quite a bit more--than it once did. Same thing in Indiana...in 1978, the #1 station in Columbus,IN at night was WNDE 1260 from Indianapolis. WNDE has the exact same facilities now as in 1978. But I dare you to pull them from the jumble of stations on 1260 in Columbus at night.

 

[jry]

Isn't 1360's ground system in bad shape? I doubt CC cares about it much since it isn't a money maker like WLW. Even 10 years ago it had a better signal than is has now.

The condition of a ground system has less to do with an AM signal than it gets credit for. This topic has been discussed on the Engineering boards & even in the extreme case of going from a few ground rods to a full ground system, the difference in signal was in the single digit percents IIRC. Factoring out the fact that the Cincinnati metro was less spread out 45 years ago, the AM band is a different animal today & the factors that are often ignored include directional antennas that protect WSAI possibly not being in compliance & therefore sending more interference this way and here's the biggie : All of these stations on 1360 that operate with low power at night (example, WFLW Monticello,KY--just 170 miles from WSAI) did not operate at night at the time. 20 watts isn't always easy to measure...are all of these stations actually operating at their licensed flea power? Are all of them powering down at all from their day power? Are some of them purposely staying on day power on nights they air high school sports (yes, this does happen)? The sad fact is that AM compliance was once sacred. A station couldn't meet it's night time license terms and it went off the air at sundown--no questions asked. WSAI had a fire in 1969 that didn't allow their directional antenna to work...they went off the air at sunset--even though they had huge ratings. Eventually they got special permission to operate with 250 watts at night. The fact is that AM compliance rates somewhere below stocking the restrooms with paper towels...and the result is that the AM dial has more interference--quite a bit more--than it once did. Same thing in Indiana...in 1978, the #1 station in Columbus,IN at night was WNDE 1260 from Indianapolis. WNDE has the exact same facilities now as in 1978. But I dare you to pull them from the jumble of stations on 1260 in Columbus at night.

Bob, i must respectfully disagree with you on this. We've got a bunch of real world experience with this. I have had stations with essentially no ground system. Had an awful time covering the market. Our old "600" site, built in the 40's, had a ground system that totally eroded. The signal went right down with it. We have been going through our AM's, replacing the ground systems. Holy cow, what a difference. So dramatic was this repair job on our 1390, that, as previously mentioned, we are fixing them all.

 

[BobOnTheJob]

Isn't 1360's ground system in bad shape? I doubt CC cares about it much since it isn't a money maker like WLW. Even 10 years ago it had a better signal than is has now.

The condition of a ground system has less to do with an AM signal than it gets credit for. This topic has been discussed on the Engineering boards & even in the extreme case of going from a few ground rods to a full ground system, the difference in signal was in the single digit percents IIRC. Factoring out the fact that the Cincinnati metro was less spread out 45 years ago, the AM band is a different animal today & the factors that are often ignored include directional antennas that protect WSAI possibly not being in compliance & therefore sending more interference this way and here's the biggie : All of these stations on 1360 that operate with low power at night (example, WFLW Monticello,KY--just 170 miles from WSAI) did not operate at night at the time. 20 watts isn't always easy to measure...are all of these stations actually operating at their licensed flea power? Are all of them powering down at all from their day power? Are some of them purposely staying on day power on nights they air high school sports (yes, this does happen)? The sad fact is that AM compliance was once sacred. A station couldn't meet it's night time license terms and it went off the air at sundown--no questions asked. WSAI had a fire in 1969 that didn't allow their directional antenna to work...they went off the air at sunset--even though they had huge ratings. Eventually they got special permission to operate with 250 watts at night. The fact is that AM compliance rates somewhere below stocking the restrooms with paper towels...and the result is that the AM dial has more interference--quite a bit more--than it once did. Same thing in Indiana...in 1978, the #1 station in Columbus,IN at night was WNDE 1260 from Indianapolis. WNDE has the exact same facilities now as in 1978. But I dare you to pull them from the jumble of stations on 1260 in Columbus at night.

Bob, i must respectfully disagree with you on this. We've got a bunch of real world experience with this. I have had stations with essentially no ground system. Had an awful time covering the market. Our old "600" site, built in the 40's, had a ground system that totally eroded. The signal went right down with it. We have been going through our AM's, replacing the ground systems. Holy cow, what a difference. So dramatic was this repair job on our 1390, that, as previously mentioned, we are fixing them all.

I can't claim a lot of first hand experience with ground system replacement...two to be exact--one was a directional where a farmer plowed up half the ground system on one tower (the array was out of tolerance) and one that was replaced due to extreme age (no audible coverage improvement). But I did pose this question on the Radio-Info Engineering board a couple of years ago...I base my opinion on the well thought out responses of some folks I have a lot of respect for. I'm not disagreeing with your results (although it would be interesting to know the before and after Field Strength values) but those results may be the exception rather than the rule. The thread is here : http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=148407.0

 

[jry]

On the 1390 project, Bob Jones had fudged the proof. The actual radials were WAY under what he filed.

When we fixed the system, the actual numbers went up to his "Corvette Proof" values. What most of us call a "diner proof".

I can give you the story behind that if you wish. Pretty funny.

One other story. We operated a Chicago area station that had a horrible ground system. There was essentially no efficiency and lots of problems with the phasor, etc.
The licensee finally fixed the ground system and it made a huge difference. The thing is, it was so screwed up, who knows.
It could just be that having the correct amount of copper in the ground improved the coverage only because of improved efficiency and having the proper resistance/reactance. I wished it had worked properly when we were there.

 

[Time Traveler]

With regards to WSAI being heard over a long distance in the 1960's - Back in 1964, I went to Harlan, Ky. with a friend who grew up there. That night, we were in his friend's car and he had one of the push-buttons on his car radio set to 1360. WSAI came in there with only an occasional drift from time to time.

Over the years I have received 1360-WSAI in Albany NY, Fort Myers Fl, and Tulsa Ok ...

 

[jry]

With regards to WSAI being heard over a long distance in the 1960's - Back in 1964, I went to Harlan, Ky. with a friend who grew up there. That night, we were in his friend's car and he had one of the push-buttons on his car radio set to 1360. WSAI came in there with only an occasional drift from time to time.

Over the years I have received 1360-WSAI in Albany NY, Fort Myers Fl, and Tulsa Ok ...

That is crazy. We may find ourselves back to the "good old days" when it comes to AM. I really believe that we will see a bunch more licenses turned in and a "cleaner" band. The guys that can hang on and keep the bills paid will probably see better coverage and maybe even more power output/better facilities.

 

[pioneer71]

JRY, I really appreciate the comments from you. I was wondering that if you had the dollars to invest what AM station or stations would go for and what formats would you pick?

 

[quadraphonic]

With regards to WSAI being heard over a long distance in the 1960's - Back in 1964, I went to Harlan, Ky. with a friend who grew up there. That night, we were in his friend's car and he had one of the push-buttons on his car radio set to 1360. WSAI came in there with only an occasional drift from time to time.

Over the years I have received 1360-WSAI in Albany NY, Fort Myers Fl, and Tulsa Ok ...

That is crazy. We may find ourselves back to the "good old days" when it comes to AM. I really believe that we will see a bunch more licenses turned in and a "cleaner" band. The guys that can hang on and keep the bills paid will probably see better coverage and maybe even more power output/better facilities.

But do they make any money, except'n when they rent it out to Brother Stair and others? ;D

 

[Pscc8082]

Maybe Bill Spry could look into this and invest into a station to compete in the ratings books. I think WLW is at an all time low. It may be a great time to look into an "innovative" talk radio format to compete. You could see a difference in the ratings books in Cincinnati.

 

[jry]

JRY, I really appreciate the comments from you. I was wondering that if you had the dollars to invest what AM station or stations would go for and what formats would you pick?

First and foremost, i am a Christian Broadcaster. We always went for stations that were the longest running/oldest in that format, in their respective markets. As of late, only FM's have been on my radar. Generally, you can have a stand alone Christian. But, only in the largest markets.
Don't let anybody fool you, the waters are still pretty "choppy" out there.

 

[gabigley1]

JRY, I really appreciate the comments from you. I was wondering that if you had the dollars to invest what AM station or stations would go for and what formats would you pick?

First and foremost, i am a Christian Broadcaster. We always went for stations that were the longest running/oldest in that format, in their respective markets. As of late, only FM's have been on my radar. Generally, you can have a stand alone Christian. But, only in the largest markets.
Don't let anybody fool you, the waters are still pretty "choppy" out there.

WOSU-AM is for sale in Columbus. What is the chance that Salem will pick up 820 AM in Columbus? Do you think a Christian Broadcaster will likely purchase the station?

 

[Limp73]

When you say "choppy" I'm guessing here is that WCVX (and sister WQRT) along with the other Cincy AMs in general are afoat and sailing but is having a rough time at present...if so I hope and pray it gets better.

1360 can potentially be a better signal if sold to the right people who care about its history and heritage in Cincinnati...what it was in the 60s and 70s,what it has been reduced to in the past decade and what it can potentially be.

First and foremost...fix it after it's purchased...then:

I'm thinking of several formats here
The loss of Smooth Jazz on 1480 can be transplanted on 1360,or Catholic programming can be moved here from 720 (WNOP) and can reach a larger area....Radio Maria,another Catholic broadcaster may want to consider 1360 and add a different flavor to those listeners who may want to have a choice between them and of EWTN's programming on 720....both can compliment each other with what they do in their respective organizations. (surely Archbishop Schnurr would give that a two thumbs up!)

Classic Country is another option...if Joe Mullins can afford it.
Old School R&B/Soul for those who miss the old WCIN..and I can go on.

But whoever buys it...keep the calls as WSAI

 

[jry]

JRY, I really appreciate the comments from you. I was wondering that if you had the dollars to invest what AM station or stations would go for and what formats would you pick?

First and foremost, i am a Christian Broadcaster. We always went for stations that were the longest running/oldest in that format, in their respective markets. As of late, only FM's have been on my radar. Generally, you can have a stand alone Christian. But, only in the largest markets.
Don't let anybody fool you, the waters are still pretty "choppy" out there.

WOSU-AM is for sale in Columbus. What is the chance that Salem will pick up 820 AM in Columbus? Do you think a Christian Broadcaster will likely purchase the station?

Well, not sure. Salem is trying to sell their Christian Daytimer in Columbus.

 

[jry]

When you say "choppy" I'm guessing here is that WCVX (and sister WQRT) along with the other Cincy AMs in general are afoat and sailing but is having a rough time at present...if so I hope and pray it gets better.

1360 can potentially be a better signal if sold to the right people who care about its history and heritage in Cincinnati...what it was in the 60s and 70s,what it has been reduced to in the past decade and what it can potentially be.

First and foremost...fix it after it's purchased...then:

I'm thinking of several formats here
The loss of Smooth Jazz on 1480 can be transplanted on 1360,or Catholic programming can be moved here from 720 (WNOP) and can reach a larger area....Radio Maria,another Catholic broadcaster may want to consider 1360 and add a different flavor to those listeners who may want to have a choice between them and of EWTN's programming on 720....both can compliment each other with what they do in their respective organizations. (surely Archbishop Schnurr would give that a two thumbs up!)

Classic Country is another option...if Joe Mullins can afford it.
Old School R&B/Soul for those who miss the old WCIN..and I can go on.

But whoever buys it...keep the calls as WSAI

Let me elaborate on "Choppy".
No one is back to where they were, pre 2006. Sure, some of the guys are posting some great increases, BUT, those gains are due to some fairly drastic cuts in staff and other expenses and do not necessarily reflect great gains in gross receipts. Remember that Q4 2010 had tons of political dollars in there as well. Take those out and lets see what you have. Without that money, what will 2011 really look like, revenue wise? CBS reported a 14% increase. 14% over 2009? Not so hot.
So, thats what i mean by "Choppy". No one is really out of the woods, yet. Everyone is nervously watching the income and the expenses. I see an uptick of hiring, which is good. Will we be restored to the levels of 2005?

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

First and foremost, i am a Christian Broadcaster. We always went for stations that were the longest running/oldest in that format, in their respective markets.

If you don't mind me asking...what prompted you to go secular talk with 1160?

 

[jry]

First and foremost, i am a Christian Broadcaster. We always went for stations that were the longest running/oldest in that format, in their respective markets.

If you don't mind me asking...what prompted you to go secular talk with 1160?

Good question. I don't mind covering this.
We had to do the same thing in Lexington.

Basically, when we did this deal, we had to take everything that Salem owned in the market.
Then, the question is, what to do with the extra station. While we were TBA-ing it, it wasn't
something i had to address. Once we knew we were programming it ourselves, its a different story.
Just about every Christian format was being represented in Cincinnati at the time. There were a lot
of Conservative voices that were shut out of the market, hence this decision.
The other thing is, how many folks were burning up the phones, back when we took WBOB down.
If there had been an opening for a Christian format, in the market, we would have done that.