Are there any stations any of you are aware of allocated on a channel and have co-channel issues from the primary clear channel station? Was listening to 1530 yesterday afternoon, during critical hours WTTI in Dalton, GA was having interference from WCKY in Cincinnati, OH (fortunately WTTI also has a translator on 93.3 FM which they promote). Have heard this same issue in the winter months during daytime. Seems like this was an allocation that may have worked on paper but in reality the WCKY takes over during critical hours and earlier during winter months.
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AM Stations "Clobbered" by the Primary Clear Channel Station
- Thread starter Ke4kls
- Start date
When I first moved up here to NE PA, Ke4, the loudest and closest local was WMBT Shenandoah. They've been dark now for over ten years. They were 2500 watts omni -- strict daytimer -- and a fine Oldies station.
One afternoon nearing sunset, I had them on the car radio while driving through this 'pass' between Fountain Springs and Ashland. The stretchh of road is about one mile. The sky was still bright-sunny, but the sun itself was just behind the mountains. WCKY was blowing WMBT into oblivion. And WMBT's lone stick couldn't've been maybe 5 miles east of the drive.
WWKBW does the same thing sometimes, especially in the winter, with those early sunsets. At times, 'KB can sound like a local Pottsville station and sometimes even louder.
Those instances only seem to treat stations to the west of here well, though. WRFD 880 from Ohio, ravaging WCBS 880 NYC at the same time of day, is common.
One afternoon nearing sunset, I had them on the car radio while driving through this 'pass' between Fountain Springs and Ashland. The stretchh of road is about one mile. The sky was still bright-sunny, but the sun itself was just behind the mountains. WCKY was blowing WMBT into oblivion. And WMBT's lone stick couldn't've been maybe 5 miles east of the drive.
WWKBW does the same thing sometimes, especially in the winter, with those early sunsets. At times, 'KB can sound like a local Pottsville station and sometimes even louder.
Those instances only seem to treat stations to the west of here well, though. WRFD 880 from Ohio, ravaging WCBS 880 NYC at the same time of day, is common.
I have heard the reverse scenario, WRFD being clobbered by WCBS before it signs off for the day. I've only heard that well to the east of Columbus, around Zanesville. Closer in around Newark, maybe 35 miles from WRFD's tower, WRFD is listenable up to its signoff but sometimes WCBS can be heard underneath (not powerful enough to cause much damage.
I've also heard the reverse when it comes to 720, where WGCR out of North Carolina can pummel WGN before it signs off.
I've also heard the reverse when it comes to 720, where WGCR out of North Carolina can pummel WGN before it signs off.
If you look at the CH rules, you'll see that the high end of the AM band has stronger skywaves during CH, requiring better protection to Class As. Now that Class B Regionals can have up to 50000 watts, there are similar problems on Regional Channels.
When high power was confined generally to 640-1220 and 1500-1580, you had little problems with CH with the 1230-1490 range from US stations. 1500-1580 is where you look first for CH signals. WJFK 1580 in Morningside, MD, WFME 1560 in New York City, and even 25000 watt WWRL 1600 New York City are often heard first during CH.
When high power was confined generally to 640-1220 and 1500-1580, you had little problems with CH with the 1230-1490 range from US stations. 1500-1580 is where you look first for CH signals. WJFK 1580 in Morningside, MD, WFME 1560 in New York City, and even 25000 watt WWRL 1600 New York City are often heard first during CH.
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K
kf4rca
Guest
I can hear WTTI here in the early morning hours after sunrise. I figured they were directional this way to protect WCKY. Anyway, it sounds like an FCC screw up to put those stations so close on the same frequency. Maybe they just decided to live with it.
I was in the Oklahoma City area years ago and the station on 890, then known as KBYE would get destroyed by WLS every evening before sunset until their local signoff.
KBXD 1480 Dallas with its 50 kW day power is my most recent example of a DXing a critical hour assassin. 50 kW on regionals was a bad idea.
WCKY blows another one out of the water on a routine basis here in the Chicago area. I've told this particular story before, but here goes again....
The Elmhurst, IL 1530 daytimer, formerly owned by car dealer, the late Joe Gentile, was/is blasted routinely by WCKY during critical hours. Gentile, who also did double-duty as morning man, was typically unable to hear his own radio station (then WJJG) at his dealership, about 20 miles away during critical hours. A power boost from 780 watts to 1800 watts didn't help much. So they went back down to 760 watts. But now apparently they have a CP to try again at 4kw (if they haven't already).
The Elmhurst, IL 1530 daytimer, formerly owned by car dealer, the late Joe Gentile, was/is blasted routinely by WCKY during critical hours. Gentile, who also did double-duty as morning man, was typically unable to hear his own radio station (then WJJG) at his dealership, about 20 miles away during critical hours. A power boost from 780 watts to 1800 watts didn't help much. So they went back down to 760 watts. But now apparently they have a CP to try again at 4kw (if they haven't already).
I suspect KSIB Creston IA 1 kW true daytimer on 1520 gets hammered in the same manner by KOKC (KOMA) during critical hours. But, KSIB also has a 25 kW FM that probably handles most of their listenership.
Whe did WMBT go dark forever?
KZQZ St. Louis, MO is another Class B Regional 50000 Watt Daytime station on 1430, heritage call letters WIL, that causes CH interference.
There are now many high power Class D Daytime stations on Regional Channels that "forget" to power down or change patterns. A lot are nondirectional, adding to the problem. It was bad enough when they were 5000 watts nondirectional Daytime.
Stations with similar Day and Night DA patterns that direct their signals into the Ocean or Canada are less of a problem, even if they "forget" to power down.
There are now many high power Class D Daytime stations on Regional Channels that "forget" to power down or change patterns. A lot are nondirectional, adding to the problem. It was bad enough when they were 5000 watts nondirectional Daytime.
Stations with similar Day and Night DA patterns that direct their signals into the Ocean or Canada are less of a problem, even if they "forget" to power down.
@ Mario :
I don't know the exact date for WMBT's demise. I just know that their tower is no longer there.
WMBT was (I think) co-owned by the county's newspaper The Pottsville Republican. I imply no political significance whatsoever.
When WMBT was a 1000-watt omni daytimer, they were a regular sunset catch on Long Island.
I don't know the exact date for WMBT's demise. I just know that their tower is no longer there.
WMBT was (I think) co-owned by the county's newspaper The Pottsville Republican. I imply no political significance whatsoever.
When WMBT was a 1000-watt omni daytimer, they were a regular sunset catch on Long Island.
KZQZ Daytime (also CH by default) IDF to the maxima NE and SW is 3500 mV/m @ 1 km, in excess of a typical Class I-A nondirectional which is about 2840 mV/m @ 1 km.
When I was in college during the late '60s in southeast Iowa (Mount Pleasant), I was well out of range from KSIB, and never heard it.
During the day, 1520 was basically blank. There was a 1510, WKAI from Macomb, IL, about 60 miles away from me. 500 watts ND, IIRC. Still listenable, but not a factor in terms of generating splatter. (The 1510 in Macomb is still going, but with different call letters).
Usually, what would happen during late afternoons in winter, is that KOLM with 10kw from Rochester Minnesota, would be the first station to roll in during CH. Format was the same as KOMA (top 40), so for a few minutes, you might not be sure what you had. Eventually, KOMA on day ND pattern would start trashing KOLM , and finally take over completely. KOLM would then sign off, and not long after that, KOMA would power down, but still be listenable with a good signal. Alone, save for an occasional whiff of WKBW either during KOMA fades or underneath.
Back to 1510, WKAI....as you might expect, WLAC would clobber them at my locations during those late afternoons. But of course, we were well beyond their intended service area.
The local stations that would experience this have, for the most part, gone away.
WASP-AM in Brownsville, PA would have WBBR start walking all over them as early as 2:30 PM
in the winter months. By 4 WASP was pretty much unlistenable. But that station went dark earlier
in this decade.
WBCW-AM, a local talk station in Jeanette, PA, was on 1530 and would likewise disappear under
WCKY by mid-afternoon in the winter. I recall several times they actually signed-off rather than fight it.
WBCW was sold and moved to 770 where it is now WKFB. Sometimes at the very end of the broadcast
day WABC will start to intrude. But it's much less than what they experienced on 1530.
WASP-AM in Brownsville, PA would have WBBR start walking all over them as early as 2:30 PM
in the winter months. By 4 WASP was pretty much unlistenable. But that station went dark earlier
in this decade.
WBCW-AM, a local talk station in Jeanette, PA, was on 1530 and would likewise disappear under
WCKY by mid-afternoon in the winter. I recall several times they actually signed-off rather than fight it.
WBCW was sold and moved to 770 where it is now WKFB. Sometimes at the very end of the broadcast
day WABC will start to intrude. But it's much less than what they experienced on 1530.
At the time I was living probably seven miles from their tower. I had heard them play a sign-off announcement
as early as 3PM.
as early as 3PM.
File this one under "why did they bother?" For the better part of 15 years, from late 1969 to 1985, a station existed in north suburban Seattle (Mountlake Terrace) on 1510 @250watts, called at various times KURB, KKNW and KKZU. KGA Spokane was then a 50K flamethrower with an E-W pattern billed as the "Trucker's Station." Nights and critical hours it followed I 90 pretty much from The Pacific to the Dakotas, at least. December of course being the only billing month where these guys in MLT ever had a chance of breaking even was the month where they had to sign off at 415pm, but really the interference started more like 230 some afternoons. I remember a jock coming on late in his shift, back announcing both his song and the one in Spokane- and he got it right so that tells me he was monitoring air signal. Another time he said something along the lines of "right on time, here come the cowboys to evict us from our spot in the dial."
Eviction was the key word here. Once they got evicted from their tower location in 1980 they moved to a rural spot several miles east, away from what little population there was in the area at that time. I suspect there were days when nobody was listening at all after 3pm. Like, zero. I do know that the last afternoon jock there (or one of the last), who I met later, said they could not monitor their own air signal but for maybe 5 hours a day in the winter.
Why it was ever conceived, or licensed, I do not know.
Eviction was the key word here. Once they got evicted from their tower location in 1980 they moved to a rural spot several miles east, away from what little population there was in the area at that time. I suspect there were days when nobody was listening at all after 3pm. Like, zero. I do know that the last afternoon jock there (or one of the last), who I met later, said they could not monitor their own air signal but for maybe 5 hours a day in the winter.
Why it was ever conceived, or licensed, I do not know.
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