AM stations on the air for FM translators

[ftballfan]

I bet there are quite a few AM stations that are only on the air so they can be simulcast on an FM translator.
One example is WYGR in Wyoming. It's a 500W daytimer on 1530AM which is simulcast on 94.9 FM. The 94.9 translator gets out about 20 miles from its stick.

 

[gbranch]

KDOK Kilgore, TX is a similar situation. The AM station is a 1 kW unlimited on graveyard 1240. There is a 105.3 translator in Kilgore that gets out about 20 miles, and a 101.9 translator in nearby Longview that gets out about 10 miles. So, although the AM out-coverages the translators during the day, it only has an effective range of about 5 miles at night.

The owner/operator, Chuck Conrad probably has the numbers, but I suspect less than 10% of his listeners use the AM.

KDOK is live and local with a very well programmed 60's-80's classic hits format. http://kdokradio.com/

 

[Poledo]

Alternative WGMP 1170 in Montgomery, Alabama would fall in this category. I doubt anyone except for a few hardcore Alt-Rock fans on the fringe of the AM coverage area would bother listening if it wasn't on a translator in stereo on 104.9.

 

[RadioDaze]

In Danville, Virginia, Lakes Media bought two 1 kW AMs solely to add FM translators and market the stations as FM broadcasters. Daytimer WWDN 1580 (previously longtime R&B WILA) is now classic hits "104-5 The Dan"--via W283BN. WMPW 970 (formerly Southern gospel WVOV), which operates at only 54 watts at night was first CHR "Amp 103.7" but is now classic country "Country Legends 103.7"--via W279AO. I'm not certain, but judging by the decreased signal strength of both AMs here in Durham, NC (approx. 50 miles southeast of Danville), I don't think either of the AMs are operating at full power. This works very well for Danville, as the service area is fairly contained and a full-power FM move-in would be either technically or cost prohibitive as the city is surrounded by three large radio markets (Greensboro, Roanoke, and Raleigh-Durham).

Lakes operates another station in South Hill, Virginia, WSHV (1370 kHz 4.2 kW Day/.410 kW Night) with an R&B format as 96.7 FM via W244CP.

In Wilmington, NC, Carolina Beach-licensed WSFM, a 10 kW daytimer at 1180, is operated via translator W240AS as FM classical outlet "(95.9 Bach FM). Wilmington is another geographically compact market that a 250-watt FM translator can cover quite well (on th TV side, the CBS affiliate there, WILM, is also low power)

 

[firepoint525]

In Dickson, TN, WDKN-AM 1260, which returned to the air under new owners in 2009 after being off the air for four months, added an FM translator at 101.5 a year or two ago, and their station is now called "the one." That name has been overused in the Nashville area, but I believe that this new translator is primarily heard only in Dickson County. Years ago, WDKN had a full-fledged FM sister station, but like so many small-town FMs, it became a Nashville move-in.

There is also an urban gospel station here in the Nashville area at 102.1 (Nashville) and 101.9 (Clarksville), but probably very few people know about their station at AM 830 that those two re-broadcast.

 

[w9wi]

In Dickson, TN, WDKN-AM 1260, which returned to the air under new owners in 2009 after being off the air for four months, added an FM translator at 101.5 a year or two ago, and their station is now called "the one." That name has been overused in the Nashville area, but I believe that this new translator is primarily heard only in Dickson County. Years ago, WDKN had a full-fledged FM sister station, but like so many small-town FMs, it became a Nashville move-in.

There is also an urban gospel station here in the Nashville area at 102.1 (Nashville) and 101.9 (Clarksville), but probably very few people know about their station at AM 830 that those two re-broadcast.

Peripheral to the topic but 101.9/102.1 are now relaying 102.5's HD-2. AM 830 is now simulcasting 102.5's main channel -- I believe, for the benefit of *another* translator, 97.5 in Murfreesboro. I don't think 102.5's 60dBu reaches the Boro so they had to use something else as the primary.

(and to close the circle... for those outside Nashville, the aforementioned 102.5 is the Nashville move-in that used to be WDKN-FM.....)

==

WKDZ AM 1110 Cadiz, Kentucky would be another one of those AM stations that's being wagged by a couple of translators. 96.5 & 100.9 to be specific.

 

[Kent]

When you consider the aging AM audience, it's hard to see any future for the band other than FM translators. Even most of your 50,000 watt heritage AM's will have an average age out of the 25-54 demo in the next 5 years if they haven't hit that point already. There are a handful of all sports AM's that are still doing relatively well 25-54, but even many of them are looking to FM as their future.

If I had an AM station on an FM translator, I would only mention the AM in the legal ID. I wouldn't promote it in the least and would never mention the frequency. Only the die hard AM listeners and radio junkies would know anything about it at all. It just makes sense to be an FM station.

 

[firepoint525]

In Dickson, TN, WDKN-AM 1260, which returned to the air under new owners in 2009 after being off the air for four months, added an FM translator at 101.5 a year or two ago, and their station is now called "the one." That name has been overused in the Nashville area, but I believe that this new translator is primarily heard only in Dickson County. Years ago, WDKN had a full-fledged FM sister station, but like so many small-town FMs, it became a Nashville move-in.
There is also an urban gospel station here in the Nashville area at 102.1 (Nashville) and 101.9 (Clarksville), but probably very few people know about their station at AM 830 that those two re-broadcast.

Peripheral to the topic but 101.9/102.1 are now relaying 102.5's HD-2. AM 830 is now simulcasting 102.5's main channel -- I believe, for the benefit of *another* translator, 97.5 in Murfreesboro. I don't think 102.5's 60dBu reaches the Boro so they had to use something else as the primary.
(and to close the circle... for those outside Nashville, the aforementioned 102.5 is the Nashville move-in that used to be WDKN-FM.....)

I am taking this as proof enough that we need to get rid of the outdated requirement that an FM translator cannot reach beyond the daytime reach of its "mother" AM station. This thread alone is proof of that. (And what about FM translators (like WAY-FM's) that are just repeaters for existing FM stations? What is the rule there?)

Just as an aside, I thought that "the Game" was going to (eventually?) become a statewide network, which would mean affiliate stations, and if necessary, FM translators, all across Tennessee. Hence my comment on an earlier thread that "local" coverage on the Game could no longer be Nashville-centric.

 

[RadioDaze]

If I had an AM station on an FM translator, I would only mention the AM in the legal ID. I wouldn't promote it in the least and would never mention the frequency. Only the die hard AM listeners and radio junkies would know anything about it at all. It just makes sense to be an FM station.

In Chapel Hill, North Carolina last fall, talk-formatted WCHL (1360 kHz, 5kw non-directional day/1kw directional night) activated a 250-watt FM translator, W250BP 97.9, and did just that, dropping all reference to AM 1360.

Up the road in Danville, Virginia, last week, soft a/c WBTM (1330 kHz, also 5kw non-directional day/1kw directional night) launched an FM translator at 102.5, though they're still referencing the "1330", but in a secondary way that will allow an easy phase-out.

 

[w9wi]

I am taking this as proof enough that we need to get rid of the outdated requirement that an FM translator cannot reach beyond the daytime reach of its "mother" AM station. This thread alone is proof of that.

Yikes. Please, no!

That requirement has already been removed for translators in the 88-92 band, which relay non-commercial stations. That's why, if you listen to 90.7 across the top of the hour, you'll hear an ID for KAWZ Twin Falls. No, the E-skip is NOT in from Idaho. (or, why, while driving through Meridian, Mississippi on a beautiful sunny day, you'll hear an EAS alert for a Severe Thunderstorm Warning. In Marin County, California.)

IMHO this provision has achieved the exact opposite of what most of us agree radio should be: it creates low-powered FM stations which not only don't have any local content, but which are in fact prohibited by the FCC from providing any local content. At least right now, these national LPFM networks must be non-commercial and cannot operate on frequencies above 92.

(And what about FM translators (like WAY-FM's) that are just repeaters for existing FM stations? What is the rule there?)

For non-commercial translators operating below 92 and commonly-owned with the station being relayed, see above...

For commercial translators commonly-owned with the station being relayed, it's the same rule as for AM: the translator may not extend the theoretical coverage of the station.

For translators *not* commonly-owned with the station being relayed, the translator may be located anywhere but must receive the main station's signal over the air.

For non-commercial translators operating above 92, the translator may be located anywhere but must receive the main station's signal over the air.

 

[joebtsflk1]

and to add to the above, at least in class C territory, if your translator is being fed through satellite (88-92) or is rebroadcasting another OTA signal beyond the parent's 60 dB contour, HAAT is limited to 100 meters at 250 watts. Higher HAAT = reduced power.

If rebroadcasting an FM's HD-2, no limit to height other than keeping inside the parent's 60 dB. If rebroadcasting an AM, nolimit to height other than keeping within the parent's daytime 2 mV/m contour or 25 miles, whichever is less.

 

[firepoint525]

For commercial translators commonly-owned with the station being relayed, it's the same rule as for AM: the translator may not extend the theoretical coverage of the station.

There is still that little matter of 102.1 being a translator for 102.5 in the downtown Nashville area for many years, regardless of what the 102.5 format may have been at any given time. We simply could not (and probably still cannot) have a discussion about 102.5 on the Nashville board without someone complaining about their "weak signal." It followed the discussion (of 102.5) like a trailer follows a U-Haul truck.

It just seems like, under the scenario that you described, that Cromwell turned off "the Light" in Nashville, just so they could play "the Game" in Murfreesboro. But if the Game ever becomes a statewide satellite network, such a shell game will become unnecessary.

This is no loss to me. I am definitely NOT in the target audience for the Light (their billboards were downtown!) and probably could not receive their signal on at least some of their frequencies.

 

[w9wi]

It just seems like, under the scenario that you described, that Cromwell turned off "the Light" in Nashville, just so they could play "the Game" in Murfreesboro. But if the Game ever becomes a statewide satellite network, such a shell game will become unnecessary.

Well, "The Light" is still on 102.1. 102.1 may not have the monster translator signal 89.9 has, but it's pretty darned good. I think it reaches a pretty high proportion of the target audience.

A new AM daytimer in a large city just doesn't seem like the kind of facility that's going to build an audience for itself. I've come to the conclusion that not only does AM 830 continue to exist solely for the purpose of feeding translators, but that translators are the sole reason AM 830 was built in the first place.*

I wouldn't be holding my breath for Cromwell to find a full-power affiliate in Murfreesboro. IMHO even if The Game goes statewide, it's going to stay on the translator in Rutherford County.



* I realize WQZQ-830 is not technically a "new" station, but when you have a new frequency, a new city-of-license, and a new transmitter location in a new market, you *are* a new station.

 

[firepoint525]

Okay, that it clears it up for me, at least some. I haven't listened to either the AM station or the FM translator in a while, so I would not know any of that.

Agree with you on your parenthetical material at the bottom. When I lived in Clarksville, AM 1550 (which is where they were at the time) simulcasted 102.9, then known as Q-102, all day, except for carrying Rush Limbaugh middays. Yes, Clarksville had its own Limbaugh affiliate back when I lived there.

So what is 102.1 (and for that matter, 101.9) "translating" now?

 

[w9wi]

Agree with you on your parenthetical material at the bottom. When I lived in Clarksville, AM 1550 (which is where they were at the time) simulcasted 102.9, then known as Q-102, all day, except for carrying Rush Limbaugh middays. Yes, Clarksville had its own Limbaugh affiliate back when I lived there.

Interesting. I didn't realize Limbaugh was on 1550. I wonder if anyone outside downtown Clarksville could hear him?

So what is 102.1 (and for that matter, 101.9) "translating" now?

102.5's HD-2.

 

[firepoint525]

Agree with you on your parenthetical material at the bottom. When I lived in Clarksville, AM 1550 (which is where they were at the time) simulcasted 102.9, then known as Q-102, all day, except for carrying Rush Limbaugh middays. Yes, Clarksville had its own Limbaugh affiliate back when I lived there.

Interesting. I didn't realize Limbaugh was on 1550. I wonder if anyone outside downtown Clarksville could hear him?

I lived in the Hilldale area (Ashford Place apartments near Clarksville High School and Richview Middle School), and I could hear him from there. I remember hearing commercials for the Franklin Street Pub there in Clarksville, but that is about it for local advertisers.

So what is 102.1 (and for that matter, 101.9) "translating" now?102.5's HD-2.

Can you tell that I don't have an HD radio, and don't know much about one? So is 101.9/102.1's signal going out further than this HD signal, or does that not apply here?