I'm still surprised that country hasn't been tried by a major New York FM in decades. I know it failed back in the 80s or early 90s but today's country is so much different. Poppier, more cross-over. If done right, it could be a big success in New York. Boston's Country did horrible in the late 80s and early 90s too but once WKLB came on board and did it right.....Country is now #2 in Boston in total audience. Give it a try, NYC!
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America's Music
- Thread starter dhoule
- Start date
The problem, from what I've heard, is the difficulty in selling country music to advertisers. New York just doesn't fit the stereotypes of country music. It's unfortunate that #1 market NYC has one of the most boring radio dials in the country. There is such an overkill of urban/rhythmic formatted stations. But apparently this is what advertisers are saying people in NYC should listen to, so that's why these stations succeed.
It's a shame, there are a lot of country music fans out there.
NYC can't even support a rock format. I've been thinking, is the first time since rock came out that NYC has had no station playing new rock music?
NYC can't even support a rock format. I've been thinking, is the first time since rock came out that NYC has had no station playing new rock music?
mrbrightside said:
Pretty much, unless you want to count the Free FM era of 92.3 (I know they played stuff on weekends and for a few months at night, but nothing was really new). I think this is even more of a disgrace than no country station, given all the acts that have been based in and around NYC (no offense to country music lovers).
mrbrightside said:
There sure are. I'm one of them. I went to the Kenny Chesney concert at the Meadowlands a few weeks ago. The place was completely sold out. When I was walking through the parking lot I was noticing that all the license plates were from NJ, NY, and CT, so it's not even like people can argue that these were country fans from distant states that made the trip in to see the show.
Hopefully, WLTW HD2 will return to the air soon, and resume its New York Country format. It had been rebroadcasting Clear Channel's Country Road channel till May this year, then got involved with the ill fated 106.3 translator experiment. WLTW HD2 then went off the air at least a month ago, apparently due to technical problems.
The website for WLTW HD2 has once again been streaming New York Country for quite some time. That may be an indication that when WLTW HD2 eventually returns, it will once again be carrying the country format. Perhaps they will follow the lead of a few other stations, and install equipment that transmits a more powerful HD2 signal.
While this is certainly not what country fans would hope for, it may be the best we can expect in New York at this time. New York Country sounded pretty good, and I enjoyed the DJ's as well as the classic country tunes they mixed in during mornings.
The website for WLTW HD2 has once again been streaming New York Country for quite some time. That may be an indication that when WLTW HD2 eventually returns, it will once again be carrying the country format. Perhaps they will follow the lead of a few other stations, and install equipment that transmits a more powerful HD2 signal.
While this is certainly not what country fans would hope for, it may be the best we can expect in New York at this time. New York Country sounded pretty good, and I enjoyed the DJ's as well as the classic country tunes they mixed in during mornings.
dhoule said:
If you look at US Census data the reasons the statements above are true becomes instantly obvious.
"America's Music" appeals most to "traditional American white" people, mostly of Northern European descent.
People who would fit that description are now a minority in the New York Radio Market which is almost 40% Black and Hispanic, and about 10% Asian. Whites now represent less than half the population, and most of them are of Southern European decent, and those folks trend to not have the same cultural preference for Country music as people whose ancestors came from Northern Europe.
Meanwhile, the Boston radio market has a Black and Hispanic population of less than 14%, and a large population of folks who were descended from Irish and English stock, and those folks come from traditions of string based Celtic and English folk music, which is where American Country had its roots.
So, you can see why Country might be more successful in a place like that than in New York.
If you look at Census ethnic data for the last several decades you will notice that "traditional white Americans" have left the New York metro area in the millions, and have been replaced first by American blacks from the South, and then by immigrants from all over the world. This is not the same market it was when Country formats worked here.
Putting Country music on a full metro main FM channel is growing less and less likely, as successful AM formats move over to FM where most of the listeners are. The number of FM channels is fixed, if there were two or three times as many, Country might find a slot, but not now nor in the foreseeable future.
Recently, we have seen the start of a female leaning all news FM station in NYC, in Chicago there are two all news FM stations, and in Philly and Boston there are two Sports talk FM stations in each that are simulcasting from AM. This will happen some day in New York and eat up even more of the FM channels.
While there may be a lot of Country fans in the New York area there just aren't enough to be economically worth a commercial FM channel. The only thing that might work is a listener supported Country station on the education band. WFDU, WFMU and WKCR play some country now, possibly they could expand that schedule, promote more, and start to attract a larger audience.
TimeIsTight said:
Of course, the latter two stations don't play the kind of country that commercial country stations play (and I thought there was no country music show on FMU at all now that Laura Cantrell left the station). Can't speak for FDU, although as a college station I would assume that they don't play "Today's Hot New Country" on their specialty programs, either.
Barry said:
Does WLTW-HD2 really need to be on the air? No one has HD radios. If it streams on the web, it's just as good as being in HD.
I think replacing the HD transmitter is the last priority for Clear Channel. They could have bought a new one in a day. The fact that it's been off for over a month says a lot about Clear Channel's stance on HD radio now: not worth fixing. If their analog transmitter failed they would have a new one up and running in hours.
TimeIsTight said:
The largest "white" ethnic segments here in central Connecticut are Italian and Polish. Tell me how WWYZ is doing so well here with so many non-British/Celtic people around. Could it be that the stereotypes about "trending not to have the same cultural preference" diminish, if not disappear, two or three generations after Grandpa Tony or Grandma Stasia got off the boat? There's no reason a hit country station wouldn't attract ears in New York City metro, despite what the geniuses on Madison Avenue think of the population there. But if the geniuses keep repeating their mantra to the advertisers, then yes, it's never going to happen in NYC. Maybe when (or if) the economy recovers to pre-Recession levels and radio somehow becomes a desireable advertising outlet again, someone will be willing to bite the bullet and give the format a try.
Actually, Poland is in Northern Europe, as are other countries with a polka tradition like Czechoslovakia, Germany etc. Country music is very popular in the Upper Midwest which is full of people whose ancestors came from those parts of Northern Europe.
And its just a trend, not an absolute, 70-30, 80-20 or whatever. There are always exceptions.
Mom and Pop who owned stations used to "take a shot" at a format they themselves liked, but in today's big money radio corporate ownership world they do extensive consumer research first, especially in the top market. The decisions are made by asking regular people "what kind of music do you listen to and who are your favorite artists?" Not enough of the right kind of people say Country, or mention Country artists.
When some big bucks outfit shells out for a rare and expensive NYC FM channel they will look for the format that has the potential to bring in the biggest bucks. Unfortunately, given the current demographics of the New York radio market there are more "better choices" than Country than there are frequencies available.
I would like to hear a punk country station.
On a separate note, many country songs talk about rural life ("International Harvester," "She Thinks My Tractors Sexy," "Rain" etc), and deride city life on some level. Country music would appeal to suburban/rural audiences based on the themes of much of the music that gets played. Of course some songs will have crossover mass appeal, but Lite/Fresh can play those tunes.
Same as I wouldn't expect a R&B/Hip-Hop station like Power or Hot to work in the Appalachian Mountains of West VA, I wouldn't expect country to do great in NYC. The 'burbs is a different story (re. WJVC, Thunder, WWYZ, etc).
Same as I wouldn't expect a R&B/Hip-Hop station like Power or Hot to work in the Appalachian Mountains of West VA, I wouldn't expect country to do great in NYC. The 'burbs is a different story (re. WJVC, Thunder, WWYZ, etc).
ansky212 said:
And how many people were there?*
It takes a cume of around 5 million to be #1 in New York.
* It was 55,300. A record. But by no means a sign of a need for a radio format.
Curious, Turnpike, that the newest procurer of one of those glistening New York City FM signals elected to go for what HAD to've been envisioned as 25-35 year old suburban caucasian females. Merlin & Associates believe they've found a market void. We shall see. David Gleason says it'd take 5,000,000 cume for such a station to grasp the top rung. That'd probably involve the allegiance of every 25-35 soccer mom in the NYC Metro plus a few other time zones.
Doubly curious is that the heavy hot-dogs at Merlin 101.9 have had some notable experience with Country. That bloodline has been noted often in forum discussions. And there was some random speculation about a Country format on the 101.9 weekends. Such was talk, of course. Still ...... b@$+@rdizing the Loretta Lynn song : 'If yer lookin at me .... you're lookin at sub-burbs'. If any royal/silver-spoon/gold-card Class B New York City station stands a chance of putting on anything that resembles a country format, it is WEMP and its obvious shopping mall truant officers.
But .... sigh .......
if 'America's music' is defined, in no particular order, as either being Country, Gospel, Jazz, Rock and Roll and/or Standards, then the NYC FM dial and its major stations with their respectable signals are not likely to invite us to the company Christmas party soon.
Doubly curious is that the heavy hot-dogs at Merlin 101.9 have had some notable experience with Country. That bloodline has been noted often in forum discussions. And there was some random speculation about a Country format on the 101.9 weekends. Such was talk, of course. Still ...... b@$+@rdizing the Loretta Lynn song : 'If yer lookin at me .... you're lookin at sub-burbs'. If any royal/silver-spoon/gold-card Class B New York City station stands a chance of putting on anything that resembles a country format, it is WEMP and its obvious shopping mall truant officers.
But .... sigh .......
if 'America's music' is defined, in no particular order, as either being Country, Gospel, Jazz, Rock and Roll and/or Standards, then the NYC FM dial and its major stations with their respectable signals are not likely to invite us to the company Christmas party soon.
The issue isn't really if country is viable in NYC. The documented history is that it can get OK ratings, but it won't attract as much advertising as other formats. Therefore, a company that owns one or two stations in the market can't afford to run a format that isn't going to be a revenue success. Only a company with a lot of frequencies can afford to allow one of them to be a loss leader.
Given those facts, which station would flip to country? All of CC's stations are doing well, so none of them are likely to flip. CBS is more likely to simulcast talk on one of its 3 FMs than run a weaker music format. It has to be on a full power FM to reach the suburbs. All of those frequencies are taken. Until the FCC allows one of the larger groups to buy another FM, it's unlikely to happen.
Given those facts, which station would flip to country? All of CC's stations are doing well, so none of them are likely to flip. CBS is more likely to simulcast talk on one of its 3 FMs than run a weaker music format. It has to be on a full power FM to reach the suburbs. All of those frequencies are taken. Until the FCC allows one of the larger groups to buy another FM, it's unlikely to happen.
What about New York City owned station WNYE 91.5? With a decent signal, but consistently microscopic ratings of .1 (cume of only about 100,000 listeners, and dropping), this vastly underutilized station may have little to lose by trying out country music for at least a part of their broadcast day.
If even a small portion of the local country fans tune in, their ratings could go up significantly-do the math.
If even a small portion of the local country fans tune in, their ratings could go up significantly-do the math.
Too bad Buckley doesn't have an FM.
Their short lived "Elephant" address at worcountry.com is now just a redirect to wor710.com.
Their short lived "Elephant" address at worcountry.com is now just a redirect to wor710.com.
ai4i said:
Interesting. However www.gocountryny.com is still operating. It comes from KKGO in LA, and it signed on at the same time as the Elephant. However, the web page hasn't been updated in a year.
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