AM's Return

[hipporadio]

OK, first, for full disclosure purposes—I LIKE AMPLITUDE MODULTION [DONE WELL]... I can provide into evidence MANY stations that provide a “useful and edifying” experience on that band... My new Pontiac auto with its standard Delphi radio provides “decent” AM reception – albeit at a whopping 3.5kHz audio bandwidth :-[

I have a close Purdue-educated “engineer” friend who works in Product Development at Delphi in Kokomo, IN... We discuss “AM issues” on a continuing basis. I want MORE – he wants LESS—simply because of interference issues. He would rather LIMIT BANDWIDTH and lesson customer complaints when “dad” attempts to tune the college football PxP on an AM station 60-miles from his driveway... UNDERSTANDABLE.

AM radio is bordering the cusp of its existence... Can we wait ANY LONGER – NO, NO, and NO! “Something” HAS to happen, less this natural resource fades to silent static. The Canadians [as Canadians often are] elected a “quick ‘n soiled government-sponsored exit”—move AM to FM at any cost... "Interesting" as a matter of public policy given the large geographical expanses that could have benefited from AM probagation to many of their remote locales.

I own several dozen radios—MANY offer exemplary AM reception and audio quality, but I “shopped” AM performance before I handed over the credit card – I recognize that “Bill ‘n Bob at the Best Buy” may not have pursued the same... INFACT, they likely ended-up with a radio that treated AM as a FIFTH-CLASS CITIZEN... SAD—VERY SAD :-[ ...Hence, my new “disconnect” with Libertarian values, and a recall for that “sinful regulation”—Hey Sony, BUILD DECENT AM RADIOS [like you used to]... The “technology” to do-so is CHEAP and decades old... A NO-BRAINER, and a definite augmentation to a positive consumer experience. I HATE to call upon government for this, but understand that this IS NOT unprecedented as EVERY radio receiver carries an “FCC certification” – so amend the terms of that certification in the interest of AM improvement and basic public security.

I have my “laundry list” of receiver parameters [and you likely know what they are already], but would beseech you readers here to provide yours – I can guess what the may be already. Let's BRING IT ON and begin an "AM reciever "Wish List".

 

[clouseau]

There is an interesting thread on an engineering listserve I belong to. It's thought is.... we all grew up with AM sound.... are we now moving to "I-Pod" sound. (Because let's face it, an I-Pod is not exactly High Fidelity.

It brings up an interesting thought about whether we are trading AM sound for a new type of distortion.

Clouseau

 

[hipporadio]

VERY GOOD POINT, Mr. Inspector! I own an iPod [and a PC with WinAmp to boot]... I have shifted audio files to the “convenient” 64k format [and below]”—FORGET about any nuance of “audio quality” within this realm – yet the “yutes” consume it as a sacred standard while they remain blind to the AM-FM switch on the very-few radios they may have... ‘Seems only the youthful college Republicans know how to tune an AM radio... Can you say "Rush"?

HIPPO-WISH #1... MANDATED AMAX on ALL but the $20 WalWorld clock radios... Hold-on, they sound better than many AM sections in the typical home sorround-sound systems :

...Care to expand the “wish list”?

 

[oldiesfan6479]

My new Pontiac auto with its standard Delphi radio provides “decent” AM reception – albeit at a whopping 3.5kHz audio bandwidth

3.5 kHz--just like an un-EQed Telco line.

Can you say "Del Sharbutt, Mutual News"? Or, "we now pause for
station identification...this is the Los Angeles Dodgers Radio Network."

 

[scanman1]

Remove IBOC from the band (I have an HD Radio and HATE the sound of digital on AM). Restore the full NRSC compliant 10Khz bandwidth to the analog audio. All manufacturers should at least add a narrow/wide bandwidth switch (variable bandwidth would be better). C-quam would also be standard and be defeatable if desired. All future HD Radios would also have all the aforementioned features.

 

[KB1OKL]

I recently picked up an old Fisher mono 90-R tuner which I'm going to restore, the AM section has three bandwidths, it works, just needs alignment and probably a few tubes.

 

[Savage]

Since returning our directional 20kw AM to full NRSC bandwidth, 10 kHz two years ago (we experimented with 6 kHz for a few months) we have received nonstop compliments about the quality and clarity of our signal. It blows the local 50kw NDA running IBOC out of the water - FIVE miles from their transmitter site (WYSL is coming in on its major lobe from TWENTY-TWO miles away.)

We process with the Omnia 3a set pretty up pretty aggressively.

If every consumer AM radio audio sucked as much as all the HD pundits claim, nobody would react because nobody would hear the difference. "The proof of the pudding...." etc. Sorry, remaining IBOC proponents (BOTH of you) but all the public gassification about how "5 khz analog is fine, nobody can hear the difference" has turned out to be just another demonstrable IBOC lie.

 

[Play Freebird]

I have a close Purdue-educated “engineer” friend who works in Product Development at Delphi in Kokomo, IN... We discuss “AM issues” on a continuing basis. I want MORE – he wants LESS—simply because of interference issues. He would rather LIMIT BANDWIDTH and lesson customer complaints when “dad” attempts to tune the college football PxP on an AM station 60-miles from his driveway... UNDERSTANDABLE.

The answer to this dilemma is simple; use a sliding-cutoff low pass filter controlled by signal strength of the desired station.

If the desired signal is strong (say, above 5 mV/m) the filter would pass the full 10 kHz of audio, but would gradually narrow with weaker signals down to a cutoff of 3 to 4 kHz. Include some hysteresis in the control circuit to avoid excessive high frequency variation, it would behave much like the "stereo blend" feature in most FM receivers. Some single-ended hiss reduction (similar to Dynafex) and an impulse noise blanker would also help.

To take this a step further, receivers could sense the level of both first-adjacent carriers and choose the sideband with the least amount of interference to be demodulated with a synchronous detector. This kind of stuff is increasingly easy to do with DSP.

 

[elchupacabras]

There is an interesting thread on an engineering listserve I belong to. It's thought is.... we all grew up with AM sound.... are we now moving to "I-Pod" sound. (Because let's face it, an I-Pod is not exactly High Fidelity.

It brings up an interesting thought about whether we are trading AM sound for a new type of distortion.

Clouseau

My thoughts exactly. I-Pod audio, with anything more than a 5:1 compression ratio SUCKS!

I don't think it is too much to ask to add 3 IF stages to a radio with AMAX standards. Make them all have C-Quam decoders, as mentioned, with a bandwith switch. It would save the band. There is another option that is even better, although controversial, but the sound is great: Kahn's CAM-D. It could promote a digital signal while preserving the analog (actually cutting down on the RF), while preserving analog bandwidth at 7.5-8 khz.

There might be another DAYTIME option only, but this may open up a can of worms as well. In order to lessen the noise factors, permit stations to increase their wattage. Where I live now in Mexico, we have several 100-250kw AM's, and they really get out during the day and are able to get out over the noise in Mexico City with no problems (other than frying the poor birds that rest on its TX line).

I understand the logic of going down to 3.5 khz on the receiver side, but it does the industry no favors, when kids reportedly say they won't listen to AM because of the audio quality (even though they will listen to awful sounding web streams). Let's face it. If you are 35 and under, you don't listen to AM. (I guess I just revealed my age, because I still listen to a lot of it!)

 

[stacker]

The conventional wisdom that "no one under 35" listens to AM is B.S.

Listeners listen for content, not the delivery mechanism.

AM sounds great on a good receiver. Give me a good receiver that passes what is transmitted. The sound gives FM a run for the money. Unlike FM, AM doesn't need the pre-emphasis that is necessary for FM to overcome the s/n problem at the high end. Good AM provides big booming bass and nice crisp highs.

Radio manufacturers say that they have narrowed the bandwidth on AM to avoid complaints due to interference. That's nonsense. They have narrowed the bandwidth on AM because they can save a few cents per unit.

 

[clouseau]

If only... Remember we seem to think that radio makers will spend as much as a dollar in their AM tuning sections. Just isn't happening.

And this idea of "If you program it, they will come..." I would LOVE to believe that. But I do not.

I hold up, as an example, one of the guys I respect greatly in todays AM radio, Bob Savage. We do not agree on a few things. And honestly, in some of them that we disagree, he might be right. But ask him this. IF music worked on AM, then why doesn't he do it? I don't say this in a disparaging way at all. He does a local station, rimshotting a major market with a lot of local programming and a few 2nd tier talk fill ins. And it seems to work well. There's a reason why he isn't "Avon's Classic Rock Station". It just doesn't work on AM. I would suspect Bob has the ability to program this station in that format right now, very effectively. If not, which I doubt, I KNOW he has at least as good a rolodex of people in the business as I do who would advise for free. It's not for lack of ability.

As I see it, AM "IS" viable when carefully crafted and well maintained, both from a technical and programming viewpoint. However "I" am still having a problem with the idea that "If you put it on the AM air, they will come."

I suspect Bob will post his opinion here shortly. My apologies if I stepped on his toes.

Clouseau

 

[Carmine5]

The conventional wisdom that "no one under 35" listens to AM is B.S.

Listeners listen for content, not the delivery mechanism.

Whenever I read arguments about AM being dead to those under 35, I always think of the 'tweens' who clamor to listen to Radio Disney. On AM! I know many under 35 who regularly listen to news on AM. I believe younger generations are more broadcast band agnostic then we give them credit for (if they're listening to radio at all).

Would chill or death metal work on AM? Why not? Kids love this stuff and nobody else in my market is doing it. And how about finding under 35 talk radio talent? Everyone is agog (or aghast) over Limbaugh and Hannity, but who is cultivating new, upcoming talent for the next generation, so that talk radio will be relevant to them?

As for music on AM, KSPA 1230 has done very well with its long running adult standards format. A broadcaster I greatly respect, Bill Norman, has been successful with his oldies in stereo on WNMB 900, a format he's been running for years. WCIN in Cincinnati and WCWA in Toledo are experimenting with smooth jazz.

In all cases, these are formats exclusive to the market. And while they may not be drawing a large enough audience to attract FM station owners, they're finding and satisfying a niche audience, getting advertisers and making money.

C5

 

[Savage]

Precisely, Carmine5. The attitude that "nobody listens to AM" is a defeatist self-fulfilling prophecy born of corporate cluster-group management attitudes. More succinctly stated, cluster bosses write off anything that doesn't rank in the top 5 in-demo as "not worth the effort."

When they get to the point where they've got an assortment of Bs or Cs which are billing in the top echelon in a given market, they're stealing a point or two of market billing from competitors and they're ahead of last year's revenues (or at least ahead of the market) it's: game over, we're done. ("What, stick around longer this afternoon to brainstorm a new plan for the freakin' AM? Forget it. I'm heading for the links. Or maybe directly to the 19th hole.")

Not for nothing, but you can see the "AM attitude" visited even on Class A FMs in clusters where they're mixed with bigger signals. If there's five minutes and sofa change left over at the end of the day, it gets tossed indifferently at the 'A.'

Just one of the not-so-good byproducts of cluster management of radio groups. Individual stations, once proudly programmed and sold by enthusiastic entrepreneurs, are now just bland "strategic options" often managed by people with little experience in or passion for radio. You know: the same nitwits who actually believe in HD Radio.

 

[elchupacabras]

Whenever I read arguments about AM being dead to those under 35, I always think of the 'tweens' who clamor to listen to Radio Disney.  On AM!  I know many under 35 who regularly listen to news on AM.  I believe younger generations are more broadcast band agnostic then we give them credit for (if they're listening to radio at all). 

Would chill or death metal work on AM?  Why not?  Kids love this stuff and nobody else in my market is doing it.  And how about finding under 35 talk radio talent?  Everyone is agog (or aghast) over Limbaugh and Hannity, but who is cultivating new, upcoming talent for the next generation, so that talk radio will be relevant to them?

As for music on AM, KSPA 1230 has done very well with its long running adult standards format.  A broadcaster I greatly respect, Bill Norman, has been successful with his oldies in stereo on WNMB 900, a format he's been running for years. WCIN in Cincinnati and WCWA in Toledo are experimenting with smooth jazz. 

In all cases, these are formats exclusive to the market. And while they may not be drawing a large enough audience to attract FM station owners, they're finding and satisfying a niche audience, getting advertisers and making money.

C5

Look, I am not anti-AM. I've programmed a number of AM's in my career and actually prefer the sound and propagation. But I am also a realist.

Have you checked the 12+ numbers for Radio Disney? Typically in the toilet sales and ratings wise.

Death metal? Tried that on AM in the early 90's. Believe it was SMN's "Z" format. Died a quick death.

Is AM dead? Hell no. Is it dying? Yes. Why? TX and RX issues.

Am I defeatist? Not on your life.  The best way for these formats to survive is to go on HD-2 feeds in addition to their AM frequencies.

I LOVE AM, by damned, so don't accuse me of not. But if you look at the breakdown in Arbitron, 30+ numbers are virtually non-existent on MW (AM) band. It is reality my friends. An ugly one, but it is the truth.

 

[Savage]

As if you need Arbitron ranking to sell and make a profit. Yes, it's one avenue. The easy one. But not the only one.

This, I believe, was Carmine's point regarding the facilities he cited.

You structure your sales effort on Arbitron only at your peril. "Live by the numbers, die by the numbers," as the saying goes. After all, it's only a matter of time before you have a bad book. Then your sales department turns into a "cancellation booking department."

 

[Carmine5]

As if you need Arbitron ranking to sell and make a profit. Yes, it's one avenue. The easy one. But not the only one.

This, I believe, was Carmine's point regarding the facilities he cited.

You structure your sales effort on Arbitron only at your peril. "Live by the numbers, die by the numbers," as the saying goes. After all, it's only a matter of time before you have a bad book. Then your sales department turns into a "cancellation booking department."

That is exactly right, Mr. Savage. Some industry experts, citing irrelevancy, even advocate throwing away "the book." I think for AM you just about have to.

A highly prolific poster here has, in the past, criticized me for mentioning KSPA and WNMB. "Look at their numbers", he says. But I can tell you that both stations are successful. Art Astor, owner of KSPA, whom I've met lives well enough to support a stable of classic cars. Bill Norman is in the process of buying his second station...AM, of course. Neither are filing for bankruptcy, taking their stations dark or changing formats.

In both cases, they have long term local advertisers who are passionate about the stations and are obviously seeing results from the buys they make.

C5

 

[elchupacabras]

Look, it can be done. I ran ethnic programming, and up until I resigned as PD, the station was getting 5.0+ ratings and beating FM's. I have programmed niche and enjoy doing it. But to suggest it will be as popular as most FM's is a stretch. There are plenty of niche AM's who are making money, primarily in small to medium markets.

We can't continue to live the lie that radio will remain the same as it has been for so many years. It is a reality. Those of you who don't want to adapt (and nobody likes change) might as well be flat earthers. But the reality is that advertisers are at a premium these days. Walmart has killed the mom and pop business that used to support radio. Agencies only buy so many deep. You can only fill your logs with so many oddball out retailers.

 

[Savage]

"A certain AM station I know" fills its logs with enough "oddball-out" advertisers to be the number two billing AM in its medium market, outbilling several smaller FMs, grows revenues every year and has made a profit every year for 12 years consecutively. This station gets plenty of agency buys even though it's generally an Arbitron no-show.

It depends on your sales effort and programming, and NOT NECESSARILY what shows in Arbitron.

Yes, advertisers are indeed at a premium. That makes it essential that they receive value for their money. If your station offers a good value and produces results for clients - see, that would be dependent upon your PROGRAMMING - the revenue will follow as will overall success.

 

[pocket-radio]

Yute's don't buy their ipods because of the sound. It's the convenience of downloading and playing 100 songs they like. Same for AM radio. While any improved sound is welcomed, it's the content that drives listeners to the band. Rush, Beck, Hannity, local news & sports are all great reasons.
Iblock, Inoise, & icrock will destroy am radio, for those unwilling to adopt another technology.