If it worked that way, then as a taxpayer, and long-time customer, I think they should get more. Seems the votes cancel out.
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If it worked that way, then as a taxpayer, and long-time customer, I think they should get more. Seems the votes cancel out.
Wouldn't be the first time my vote got canceld out by someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.
Nor probably the first time it was cancelled out by those who know of what they speak.
Not only that, they didn't let many people into the electorate. And the electorate only got to vote for the house of representatives.
Said the guy who thinks people should make $45k or more a year to hand out microwaved hamburgers.
Both very good points. Mainly because of the above.
The Senate was to be representative of the states, while the House of Representatives was to be the people's house. It had nothing to do with whether the Founding Fathers trusted anyone, but about representation, because they didn't want government to be trusted, particularly as the be all to end all.
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That's the point of this discussion...we the people don't decide how much government employees get paid. Our representatives appoint management who make those decisions. The people themselves have very limited responsibilities for running the country.
The founders didn't trust the "tyranny of the mob." The senate was to be chosen by the various state legislatures. The upper houses of state legislatures were chosen by the elites; most of the electorate did not vote for them. The model was the House of Lords. City councils also had upper chambers again chosen by the elites of the electorate. The idea was to keep the great unwashed, represented in the lower houses, from doing anything crazy, stupid or against the interests of the wealthy class (major land owners and business owners).
The idea of not trusting government came much later. The elite may talk about distrusting government but they have always used government to protect and advance their interests. Distrust of government was promoted to counter populist distrust of wealth and big business.
In this thread, when the discussion of what Amtrak food-service workers make came to the front, there was so much conflicting information that it was obvious we were not dealing with "food fit for human consumption".
So I went poking around this morning. You see, I don't think I have been on an inter-city train since Amtrak came into existence so I have never had a conversation with a real food-service worker on Amtrak. I am going to post a link from Bloomberg. I am going to assume that it has a reasonable amount of "food fit for human consumption". After reading this I come to the conclusion:
What you see in food service and what the workers are paid for those running what amounts to "local service" Amtrak in the Eastern Corridor is totally different that what you see in food service and what the workers are paid for those trains running trans-continental service. One is a "hamburger run".... the other is a "steak and wine" run. One breaks even or makes money, the other loses "the family farm" in the process.
This thread reminds me of so much of the discourse going on in our country today. We are like the old Indian fable about the blind men examining and describing the nature of the elephant. The sight-less man's description of the wet slobbering trunk is quite different that the man holding onto an ear that is flapping in the wind. Then there is the guy trying to describe the left buttock of the animal.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ing-free-wine-to-steak-loses-millions-on-food
So I went poking around this morning. You see, I don't think I have been on an inter-city train since Amtrak came into existence so I have never had a conversation with a real food-service worker on Amtrak. I am going to post a link from Bloomberg. I am going to assume that it has a reasonable amount of "food fit for human consumption". After reading this I come to the conclusion:
What you see in food service and what the workers are paid for those running what amounts to "local service" Amtrak in the Eastern Corridor is totally different that what you see in food service and what the workers are paid for those trains running trans-continental service. One is a "hamburger run".... the other is a "steak and wine" run. One breaks even or makes money, the other loses "the family farm" in the process.
This thread reminds me of so much of the discourse going on in our country today. We are like the old Indian fable about the blind men examining and describing the nature of the elephant. The sight-less man's description of the wet slobbering trunk is quite different that the man holding onto an ear that is flapping in the wind. Then there is the guy trying to describe the left buttock of the animal.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ing-free-wine-to-steak-loses-millions-on-food
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I've taken both cross country (SLC to Philly) and Northeast Corridor Amtrak trips. The food on all of them was garbage.
Has nothing to do with how much they get paid.
Oh, come on! You guys are like kids in the back seat of the family car on a trip just a little too long. 
Or maybe a railroad trip a bit too long.
My intent was to stir up a bit of adult conversation. I am really curious. Do food service people on the Amtrak long-haul routes work under a different contract, different benefit, and different pay-rate than people on the Northeastern Corridor? Or are the contracts a "one-size-fits-all" arrangement?
Whether they are right or wrong, the Bloomberg link indicates rather clearly/forcefully that food service is a MONEY LOSER on the long-haul routes, and is at least break-even or at best a profit maker in the Metro Corridors. And a quick read indicated that the menu was different on the long-haul and short haul routes.
Now, maybe the different food, the different menus, are both BAD FOOD, but the indication was that the menus and the food are different... even if both a bad.
Reminds me of a trip to Washington years ago for a day of business conferences to be followed by a day of visiting our Congressmen and Senators. As the first day came to and end, a blizzard hit. Our little group (maybe 6 or 8 people) from Indianapolis were clustered in one hotel room to plan for the evening. "Maybe we should just eat here in the hotel?" One of the more successful and more outspoken guys in our group shot that idea down in a hurry. "I don't eat HOTEL food. I don't care what the menu calls it.... it's all the same thing! <long, long dramatic pause > No matter what the menu says, what they bring out of the kitchen is ALWAYS Camel-Butt." So we found a couple of cab drivers willing to brave the blizzard and take us to someone's favorite restaurant 4 or 5 miles away.
So.... it may ALL be Camel-Butt, but does Amtrak have a local regional grade and a different grade for the across-the-continent routes? Or has anyone put aside their personal prejudices and political pontifications long enough to even notice?
Or maybe a railroad trip a bit too long.My intent was to stir up a bit of adult conversation. I am really curious. Do food service people on the Amtrak long-haul routes work under a different contract, different benefit, and different pay-rate than people on the Northeastern Corridor? Or are the contracts a "one-size-fits-all" arrangement?
Whether they are right or wrong, the Bloomberg link indicates rather clearly/forcefully that food service is a MONEY LOSER on the long-haul routes, and is at least break-even or at best a profit maker in the Metro Corridors. And a quick read indicated that the menu was different on the long-haul and short haul routes.
Now, maybe the different food, the different menus, are both BAD FOOD, but the indication was that the menus and the food are different... even if both a bad.
Reminds me of a trip to Washington years ago for a day of business conferences to be followed by a day of visiting our Congressmen and Senators. As the first day came to and end, a blizzard hit. Our little group (maybe 6 or 8 people) from Indianapolis were clustered in one hotel room to plan for the evening. "Maybe we should just eat here in the hotel?" One of the more successful and more outspoken guys in our group shot that idea down in a hurry. "I don't eat HOTEL food. I don't care what the menu calls it.... it's all the same thing! <long, long dramatic pause > No matter what the menu says, what they bring out of the kitchen is ALWAYS Camel-Butt." So we found a couple of cab drivers willing to brave the blizzard and take us to someone's favorite restaurant 4 or 5 miles away.
So.... it may ALL be Camel-Butt, but does Amtrak have a local regional grade and a different grade for the across-the-continent routes? Or has anyone put aside their personal prejudices and political pontifications long enough to even notice?
AFAIK The AMTRAK contract is the same nationwide. However, several state or regional rail systems use the same tracks, and they each have their own contracts. TTBOMK, there is no food service on SEPTA or NJTransit. Also no AC outlets for laptops.
I'd be more inclined to support higher salaries if they didn't serve microwaved slop.
Yes. Same tracks. Almost the same speed unless you go Acela, and at about 1/5 the price. NJ Transit from 30th Street to NYP is $15. Amtrak is at least $60 and up to $100.
My point is that they're working off a very bad business model and if they fixed it, they could do much better.
I enjoy rail travel. I usually even enjoy Amtrak. But they could do so much better. They SHOULD do so much better with the money they take from us.
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As I've said, your support or lack thereof has no impact on their salaries. You can rant on air if you like, but it will make no difference.
Let me know when you decide to run for Congress.
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Sorry, NJT does not go from 30th Street to New York Penn Station. You take SEPTA from 30th Street (upper level) to Trenton and change to NJT. It is no where near the same speed as even Northeast Corridor trains. SEPTA/NJT takes about two and a half hours to go from 30th Street to Penn Station. Cost is $24.50. Times vary based on how many stops and how long a connection time you have in Trenton. Northeast Corridor trains are about an hour and a quarter to an hour and a half. Again, times vary due to number of stops and traffic. No advance purchase fares are available for $54.00, which is a little more than twice the commuter line fares. And the seats on Amtrak are a lot more comfortable.
So, it's not almost the same speed and it's not 1/5 the cost. You can look it up for yourself.
I left the SEPTA connection part out for brevity, but I am not wrong on the price.
I've taken both many times. The seats are more comfortable, but not $15 vs. $54 more comfortable. I can't tell you how many times I've had to sit in the dining car because there were no seats in coach. That's WORSE than SEPTA or NJT. I know most of the people you pick arguments with here aren't from the areas you're arguing about, but you ran into the wrong one this time.
You're trying to nitpick details because you know the base point is right. Amtrak wastes money and giving them more wouldn't have prevented this accident or even increase their level of service. They're not underfunded. They're mismanaged.
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Yes, you are wrong about the price. $15.50 is the NJT fare. You left out SEPTA's $9.00 fare (for brevity?). The SEPTA fare is even mentioned in the image you posted.
I didn't say Amtrak should get more money. I said funding to repair and upgrade infrastructure should not be cut. I have not sampled Amtrak's Northeast Regional food service lately, but if they are getting $15.00 for a hamburger, as you said, they are probably showing a profit on the cafe cars.
For the record, I love trains. I hate Amtrak. Every time my love of trains causes me to forget earlier Amtrak experiences and to take the train, Amtrak renews my hatred. Yes, they are mismanaged but most corporations are. But much of Amtrak's problem comes from meddling by congress (same people complaining about the government money Amtrak gets). If Amtrak were allowed to drop their long distance service and concentrate on the Northeast corridor and a few other viable routes, they might have a shot. In the meantime, I use Bolt or Megabus.
From the area? I thought you were from Bal'mer. If MARC manages to extend service to Newark, DE, you can take MARC/SEPTA/NJT to New York. You talk about mismanagement, how come MARC needs more than 20 years to extend service, over an existing right-of-way, to Newark?
I didn't say Amtrak should get more money. I said funding to repair and upgrade infrastructure should not be cut. I have not sampled Amtrak's Northeast Regional food service lately, but if they are getting $15.00 for a hamburger, as you said, they are probably showing a profit on the cafe cars.
For the record, I love trains. I hate Amtrak. Every time my love of trains causes me to forget earlier Amtrak experiences and to take the train, Amtrak renews my hatred. Yes, they are mismanaged but most corporations are. But much of Amtrak's problem comes from meddling by congress (same people complaining about the government money Amtrak gets). If Amtrak were allowed to drop their long distance service and concentrate on the Northeast corridor and a few other viable routes, they might have a shot. In the meantime, I use Bolt or Megabus.
From the area? I thought you were from Bal'mer. If MARC manages to extend service to Newark, DE, you can take MARC/SEPTA/NJT to New York. You talk about mismanagement, how come MARC needs more than 20 years to extend service, over an existing right-of-way, to Newark?
No one has suggested "cutting" fund. Just not giving Amtrak the increase it wants. That's not a cut, despite the media's portrayals of decreases in increases as cuts when it's a program they like. Which Amtrak most certainly is.
And no, even with ridiculous prices on food, they lose about $80 million a year or more.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/03/u...llion-on-food-in-last-decade-audit-finds.html
And that $15 hamburger is actually $10 on the train but costs the taxpayers $16. Lovely math.
And no I'm not from Baltimore. Not even a football fan. The name is something else.
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