Analysis: The Revenge of WNEW-FM?

[wrsurocks]

In light of the changes at K-Rock, I think the business case for the return of WNEW-FM is coming together.

There is a lot of thought that the WNEW brand no longer carries weight, and I tend to disagree with this argument. Consider the following:

-The management of WRXP has proven it has no intent to change its 0.9 ratings course with a more logical AAA or straight alternative sound. It is safe to say it is not a threat, if long for this world.

-K-Rock has proven that a lack of programming focus brings bad results

-WRXP is essentially copying the WNEW style without key components: brand credibility, established awareness, and confident programming focus

-WNEW went off the air a little under ten years ago, and the demos that still remembers the station as great are as young as 30.

-Unlike past generations, the current generation embraces classic rock - but one can only take it if done the right way with emphasis on the punk era to the present (not unlike WHTG-FM on the Jersey shore)

-CBS already programs a successful heritage AAA in WXRT - and the current PD of the WNEW.com HD2/stream is Norm Winer, longtime WXRT programmer. Ultimately, this is what WNEW should have done in the first place.

-CBS was surprised by insane media coverage (even in the Netherlands) about the return of heritage WCBS-FM, which was billed as a heroic event for radio, New York culture, and classic Top 40 - and even the mild return of WNEW on 102.7 HD2 got coverage in all of the major New York newspapers. A return of WNEW-FM would easily gain as much coverage as the return of WCBS-FM, drawing both the base that remembers WNEW and the crowd that WRXP is trying but failing to reach

-WCBS-FM fell apart once, and came back a top-5 ratings product. WNEW-FM fell apart once...

That said, I think WNEW could follow the WCBS-FM template to return. Bring back a modern, smart, and focused version of what WNEW always was - what we now call AAA. Bring back a token heritage DJ (Dave Herman?) with other respected rock DJs such as Ian O'Malley and Paul Cavalconte that know New York.

I think a return on the first workday of the year, placing Fresh on 92.3 (or even a CHR to take on Z-100, heck) with stunting for a few hours with the great booming WNEW hourly ID interspersed with famous clips and then a huge commercial-free weekend to allow everyone to sample it with the absolute best programming would be a great start.

I have hope that something like this will develop - and then we will finally have great rock radio in New York again.

 

[neo11]

I posted about this a couple of days ago, but I'll post it again: why is there such a freaking obsession with heritage calls that aren't really "heritage" any more? 102.7 has not been home to rock for 10 years now. For most listeners that a rock station would target nowadays, the WNEW calls are meaningless. And before it went off the air, it wasn't exactly lighting the ratings on fire either. And moving Fresh to 92.3 would be pretty dumb as well, IMO.

 

[wrsurocks]

It may be hard to believe, but the 30-40 crowd still has a lot of affection for the station. The station also is hiding a lot of great archival material and music in its still-intact music library. Brands still count for something.

I have to emphasize this: WNEW is not just a set of call letters. It is a brand that exists in people's minds and conjures up emotions. No other rock brand in New York will do that - and it is that head-start in branding that will ensure success. WRXP, anyone?

The bad ratings of the late 90s are not what I am referring to. Again, WCBS-FM screwed around with its format, logo, and identity just as WNEW did with as much success (none). Look where it is now - stronger than ever. They used the BRAND EQUITY to build a new station. Just like the new AT&T did, and many other brands you can cite in and out of radio.

My generation (I am 21) also appreciates our parent's music more than any other generation. The return of WNEW would certainly bring about buzz.

Don't forget the huge media coverage. It helped re-launch WCBS-FM more than you might want to believe. No other brand other than WNEW-FM will garner that coverage. Read what I wrote about that above.

Bring in Ian O'Malley, Paul Cavalconte, and other great voices of rock and you have a new WNEW.

 

[neo11]

It's not going to do well. The classic rock audience would be split, at best, with Q104.3 and with RXP still in the picture in some way. And as I mentioned, the ratings for WNEW in the last few years it was on were just no good. I really can't see it doing much better than 92.3, and in fact, its demos might skew older than 92.3's.

The media coverage for WCBS-FM has more to do with the way the station was taken off the air (and ultimately brought back) which led to an outcry from its loyal listeners. There was no such coverage when WNEW ceased to be a rock station in 1999, and no such vocal outcry for its return.

This call letter/frequency attachment that is going around is just amazingly silly.

 

[andreajesus]

It's not going to do well. The classic rock audience would be split, at best, with Q104.3 and with RXP still in the picture in some way. And as I mentioned, the ratings for WNEW in the last few years it was on were just no good. I really can't see it doing much better than 92.3, and in fact, its demos might skew older than 92.3's.

The media coverage for WCBS-FM has more to do with the way the station was taken off the air (and ultimately brought back) which led to an outcry from its loyal listeners. There was no such coverage when WNEW ceased to be a rock station in 1999, and no such vocal outcry for its return.

This call letter/frequency attachment that is going around is just amazingly silly.

Neo, I gotta go with you on one point - the media coverage for WCBS-FM after the events of 6/3/05 which led to all the listeners making such a thing about it - hey, the station is back and thriving, so...

Andrea

 

[Walter Graff]

I have a shovel, just let me know when to dig up Scott Muni

 

[wrsurocks]

It's not going to do well.  The classic rock audience would be split, at best, with Q104.3 and with RXP still in the picture in some way.  And as I mentioned, the ratings for WNEW in the last few years it was on were just no good.  I really can't see it doing much better than 92.3, and in fact, its demos might skew older than 92.3's.

The media coverage for WCBS-FM has more to do with the way the station was taken off the air (and ultimately brought back) which led to an outcry from its loyal listeners.  There was no such coverage when WNEW ceased to be a rock station in 1999, and no such vocal outcry for its return.

This call letter/frequency attachment that is going around is just amazingly silly.

Again, WNEW is not just call letters. WWFS and WLTW are just call letters. WPLJ, WNEW, WCBS, and WINS are BRANDS.

When WNEW went off the air, it was a huge deal. Even CNN as a national cable network did a special on it called "How to Kill a Radio Station". It did affect people.

K-Rock failed because it was never a successful music brand. It was the station you tuned to for Howard Stern, and the ratings always proved that. Add in bad programming now and there's nothing to base it off of. Additionally, New York is not the type of town that will accept hard-edged rock on a mass scale. However, with the large number of yuppies a laid-back AAA done RIGHT (no WRXP, no damned Guns n' Roses next to David Gray) could catch on. I mentioned this before: listen to WXRT online and get back to me.

WRXP is NOT going to be here much longer in its current form. How many corporate-owned FMs last long with consistent 0.9s? NJ 101.5 was beating it a few books back. The station's year anniversary comes in February.

WRXP was supposedly not even the first choice of format since rumor had it in the upper echelon of the business that they were really preparing a classic hits format that got immediately preempted by WCBS-FM's return.

WNEW, just basing on the fact that K-Rock and WRXP would be defunct and that their shares would translate, could easily pull a 3.0. Never mind the station's own legs and existing BRAND.

WNEW has an unmistakable sound when it was clicking on all cylinders through its late 90s downfall. That is a brand - a sound and place that exists in people's lives and can be leveraged.

I'm 21, so I'm not getting all hung up on call letters. Leave that to some of the others on the board. But I do know public relations and marketing.

WNEW would NOT be doing any measurable amount of classic rock to match the Q. Check out WXRT. Heck, check out the PEAK 107.1 out in our own backyard of Westchester. Check out G Rock 106.3 on the Jersey Shore. WNEW ALREADY has a base that is 30-40 years old now, that would be there pretty much on-demand. Add in the coverage it would get, and the buzz would bring the younger "Hoboken" young professional types that WNEW as a AAA would want.

Once more, this is NOT ABOUT CALL LETTERS. WNEW is the last great rock brand in New York, and for a format like AAA you need the best foot forward. A brand with 40 years of proven history in New York is a good place to start.

Again, WXRT (www.wxrt.com) has been doing it for DECADES. It can be done.

 

[neo11]

Here's the thing: the premise of bringing a true AAA to NYC (RXP is not even close to a true AAA) is not bad. I'm sure a well-executed AAA (that would NOT lean classic rock, as you also pointed out) would do better than both K-Rock and RXP and draw better demos. I'm with you on that.

However, I don't think that you can ride on the WNEW heritage alone. For all those out there to whom the WNEW brand means something, there's so many more people, including rock listeners, for whom it doesn't really mean anything at all anymore, since it's been so long since those calls were last associated with rock on an actual FM (not HD) station. And it would be silly to bump off Fresh to 92.3 just to put the new format on 102.7, just because it was WNEW's home 10 years ago.

In other words, I think such a station can exist even without the WNEW branding or the 102.7 dial position, but it's all going to come down to the programming and music.

Now, if there was a station on 102.7 that was struggling, like there was up until Fresh came along, then sure, go ahead and put it on 102.7, you have nothing to lose. But Fresh is doing pretty well. Moving it just to revive something that once was doesn't make a whole lot of sense to be from a business and programming standpoint...but as has been pointed out, stranger things have happened!

 

[wrsurocks]

I agree wholeheartedly a revived WNEW could not rely on its heritage. It would merely be a head-start for the upper end of its theoretical target demo of 30-40 that would remember it. But it is that head-start, especially in a competitive radio climate, that could make the difference.

It could not be as unfocused as WRXP, regardless of the brand recognition. WRXP just also has another battle in that its brand means NOTHING to anyone. It doesn't have any foundation before February 2008.

Stations exchange frequencies all the time. Out in Jersey WPST did it and they're just fine. WFAN went from 1050 AM to 660 AM in 1988 - and that's what Fresh and WNEW could do now.

They simply could run a recording, as I mention earlier, telling people to go to 92.3 while the flip is in place. It seems to have worked for WFAN which took over WNBC's old dial position.

I know you may believe 102.7, the WNEW brand, and all the hubbub is just that - hubbub. But imagine a relaunched WCBS-FM on 101.1 and a theoretical WQCD "Classic Hits" 101.9 that might have launched at the same time. Who has the market advantage in media coverage, promotion, brand recognition, and listener base?

 

[kevinsealy]

Has anyone forgotton what the WNEW call signs meant? There are those of us who are still alive (especially second generation WNEW listeners) that there was a WNEW-AM on 1130 that has a history that can't be matched with exeption of WOR.

WNEW-FM has its own legacy. But to bring back the WNEW callsigns to 102.7FM, the station should bill itself WNEW-FM and leave the WNEW call letters reserved for the station that gave us the "Make Believe Ballroom".

But if rock is returned to 102.7FM and the WNEW call letters, bring back Dave Herman, Pete Fornatale, Dennis Elsas, Richard Neer and Pat St. John if they're all available.




Thanks,
Kevin L. Sealy

 

[andreajesus]

Kevin,

That would be a "miracle" if that happened - i realize that stranger things have happened in NYC radio over the past 18 months, but this is what it is in a nutshell -

Today's radio is not made for the "Kevin L. Sealys" - face it, most people in the age demographic that radio programmers/advertisers usually go for (25-54) don't have ANY recollections of the ORIGINAL WNEW call signs...so to today's listeners, WNEW is just a memory - the 102.7 frequency is now "Fresh"... 8)

 

[wrsurocks]

Again, there is still a base of 30-40 year olds that any station would love to have at the flip of a switch. Never mind the press coverage ahead of such a return.

Any return could not be a complete copy of WNEW - it could have one big token name of the past. (perhaps Pat since he is already at WCBS-FM, but Herman is even more established with that brand). Then bring in some very AAA-sounding voices like Ian O'Malley, Paul Cavalconte, and heck even Dennis Quinn and you have a stable base.

This is not that extreme of a scenario.

 

[andreajesus]

Again, there is still a base of 30-40 year olds that any station would love to have at the flip of a switch. Never mind the press coverage ahead of such a return.

Any return could not be a complete copy of WNEW - it could have one big token name of the past. (perhaps Pat since he is already at WCBS-FM, but Herman is even more established with that brand). Then bring in some very AAA-sounding voices like Ian O'Malley, Paul Cavalconte, and heck even Dennis Quinn and you have a stable base.

This is not that extreme of a scenario.

all points true, BUT...

would the press coverage of WNEW "returning" even have half of the press coverage that CBSFM's return did last year? because for a revamped WNEW to work, even with guys like Herman, Cavalconte, and Quinn, the coverage would have to be at the LEVEL that CBSFM's return garnered in 2007....

Andrea

 

[wrsurocks]

It definitely would get the press coverage of WCBS-FM, because like WCBS-FM it invented a format - free-form rock radio. It was also considered a watershed moment for the marginalization of radio in general. It got a lot of press when it went off, and due to the larger-than life stories about the station (John Lennon randomly guess hosting, etc.) as well as its famous hosts, it would definitely garner the press's attention in its return.

 

[neo11]

There's no way it would get the same amount of press coverage. Again, WCBS-FM's press coverage stemmed more from the way the plug was pulled, and what replaced it, than from the format change itself. That and the fact that WCBS-FM actually was a highly rated (albeit aging) station when the plug was pulled.

When WNEW-FM was pulled off the air, however, there was barely any outcry. No mass campaign to bring it back, no newspaper articles blasting the new "hot talk" format which replaced it. And the ratings had been low for a while. Not to mention that WCBS-FM was (and is) the city's *only* oldies station. When WNEW was pulled, rock listeners could still turn to 104.3 or K-Rock or the several suburban rock stations. And that situation still holds true today. As bad as K-Rock and RXP are, there's no real outcry to bring back WNEW, because a lot of that music is found elsewhere. Heck, some of the ex-WNEW DJ's have a home on WFUV, where I would bet many of those hardcore listeners have migrated to. WFUV, as a non-commercial station, is going to be far more diverse, musically, than any commercial station would ever be in this day and age.

So...it's two COMPLETELY different situations. The return of WNEW to FM, if it ever happens, would barely elicit a response in the media.

As for WNEW 1130, I'm well aware of it and its history. However, it's pretty absurd to say that because there was once a WNEW AM and a WNEW FM, that WNEW, if it returns as an FM station, should identify itself as "WNEW-FM" because of the AM station that once existed. The AM station is long gone and isn't coming back (rightly or wrongly). Hanging on to something that once was just seems silly to me.

 

[TheBigA]

Interesting conversation.

The difficult part about this is that it's hard to live up to the memories of the brand. Especially when the people involved are all ten years older. Then again, I've seen Mark Chernoff, and he doesn't look a day over 40. So if anyone can bring it back, it's him. He was there before, and he has now returned, which is possibly what the original poster was saying.

 

[davideduardo]

It definitely would get the press coverage of WCBS-FM, because like WCBS-FM it invented a format...

CBS-FM did not invent any format.... there were oldies stations years before CBS FM adopted an oldies format.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

It definitely would get the press coverage of WCBS-FM, because like WCBS-FM it invented a format...

CBS-FM did not invent any format.... there were oldies stations years before CBS FM adopted an oldies format.

Nor did WNEW invent AOR.

 

[fang39]

It definitely would get the press coverage of WCBS-FM, because like WCBS-FM it invented a format...

CBS-FM did not invent any format.... there were oldies stations years before CBS FM adopted an oldies format.

Really? This is from Wikipedia:

"WCBS-FM was never successful with their rock format, competing with stations such as WPLJ (the other former WABC-FM) and WNEW-FM had most of the rock audience. As a result WCBS-FM switched to oldies on July 7, 1972, becoming one of the first full-time stations in the country to use that format.[5] The change coincided with rival WOR-FM's decision to drop pre-1964 oldies from its playlist a few months prior (as they became WXLO). The first record aired on the WCBS-FM was Dion's "Runaround Sue"."

Admit it Dave. You've never liked the fact that you were proven wrong when WCBS-FM came back last year.

As far as WNEW-FM relaunching on 102.7, if done right, I think it would be a strong contender to Q-104.3. I've been enjoying their webtsream since it launched. I, for one, would certainly welcome a return. Q-104.3's playlist is very limited and repetitive. "C'mon Dave Herman....Play us some Rock & Roll!"

 

[andreajesus]

It definitely would get the press coverage of WCBS-FM, because like WCBS-FM it invented a format...

CBS-FM did not invent any format.... there were oldies stations years before CBS FM adopted an oldies format.

Really? This is from Wikipedia:

"WCBS-FM was never successful with their rock format, competing with stations such as WPLJ (the other former WABC-FM) and WNEW-FM had most of the rock audience. As a result WCBS-FM switched to oldies on July 7, 1972, becoming one of the first full-time stations in the country to use that format.[5] The change coincided with rival WOR-FM's decision to drop pre-1964 oldies from its playlist a few months prior (as they became WXLO). The first record aired on the WCBS-FM was Dion's "Runaround Sue"."

Admit it Dave. You've never liked the fact that you were proven wrong when WCBS-FM came back last year.

As far as WNEW-FM relaunching on 102.7, if done right, I think it would be a strong contender to Q-104.3. I've been enjoying their webtsream since it launched. I, for one, would certainly welcome a return. Q-104.3's playlist is very limited and repetitive. "C'mon Dave Herman....Play us some Rock & Roll!"

Hey, Fang, i wouldn't worry too much about DE...as you know, WCBS-FM not only came back last year, but came back with a VENGEANCE...8) but what's sca-ry is that i remember the Dave Herman slogan from 102.7 - that goes back a little ways with me (and i'm only 22... :-*)

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

Andrea