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Analysis: The Revenge of WNEW-FM?

"That's all well and good, but the catch with WNEW is not its callsign, nor the DJs. Nor is the modern-day WCBS-FM much like the old WCBS-FM.
It's not callsigns.
It's not DJs.
It's not even specific music, really.
It's a valuable BRAND, even if that value is $1 or $1 million, that CBS could use as a springboard to launch a AAA.
Anyone saying that a modernized WNEW would not get media attention just isn't looking at the attention they got when they went off.


Okay I got it. They never say the call sign, no DJs talk, and they never play music. And every week they say good bye and sign off till next week causing grat press in the local paper. What a brand!!!

This discussion has gone from sublime to ridiculous. Someone put a fork in it.
 
That's not what I said at all...

...what I AM saying is what others on this thread have said already...

...this cannot be a carbon copy of 1967, or 1997. It will not work. This is not about us radio enthusiasts liking callsigns and certain DJs, but about relaunching WNEW as a modern-day rock station with a nod to its past that can appeal to the masses, therefore garnering the ratings. WNEW failed once already trying to change the station within the old model.

For the station's return, and I mention CBS-FM as a clear example of how to do it WELL (and in light of this I am confused about your last post): you can't bring back all the old DJs and do things exactly the same way. It needs to be a fresh start with a nod to its heritage.

I don't understand why you are getting upset...
 
fang39 said:
WFAN currently broadcasts on WXRK's HD-2 (?) channel.

Close - it's on their HD3 signal. WFAN's legal ID now reflects as such.

The HD2 channel of WXRK is that "K-Rock2" thing.
 
wrsurocks said:
but about relaunching WNEW as a modern-day rock station with a nod to its past that can appeal to the masses,

"Masses", in that sense, no longer exist. The internet and iTechnology have reconfigured the tableau. And the higher-functioning old WNEW fans have gone with the flow; if they're still into radio, they've followed Vin Scelsa to WFUV or went all the way to WFMU. Or NPRville in general. To them, your kind of relaunch would be halfbaked, naive, twerpy, dorky, wussy, and a misunderstood travesty of the original. Let sleeping dogs lie.

Today, "masses" = Wal-Mart trash. Thirty years ago, you could buy books at Korvettes or Kmart that'd only be available at Borders or Barnes & Noble today. It doesn't mean it makes sense to go back to the future by selling them at Wal-Mart today.
 
I think some of your points are valid, but radio has not been replaced by technology - it is merely sharing more time with it (and less time with radio, but as of the latest study MORE are listening). Just as TV took away some of radio's time.

The industry knows there is a listener spectrum, of which some people may vary from day-to-day. One extreme is all hands-on iPod feeder and music researcher, and the other is a person who wants to have someone program something for them and think feeding an iPod and spending hours researching bands is annoying. All of us vary in this spectrum day-to-day.

The hoopla about iPods "replacing" radio is a blanket statement and not really accurate.

As far as a relaunched WNEW, it works in Chicago to much success. WXRT is not number one, but it has something few stations have - a diehard listener base. Just like the old WNEW had before it started falling off a cliff.
 
wrsurocks said:
The industry knows there is a listener spectrum, of which some people may vary from day-to-day. One extreme is all hands-on iPod feeder and music researcher, and the other is a person who wants to have someone program something for them and think feeding an iPod and spending hours researching bands is annoying. All of us vary in this spectrum day-to-day.

Though I reckon that when it comes to the latter, younger generations are probably more likely to be sufficiently agile (everything being just a Google away, you know--don't forget how knowledge has been democratized) to overcome much of the annoyance. As are the "higher-operating" and adaptable older generations.

Which means, the WNEW you're gonna get is gonna be the WNEW that sucked and drove listeners to WFMU and whatever. Unless you bring back Vin Scelsa and make his programming approach the rule rather than the exception.
 
Right, but again even my generation (I am 21 years of age) does not always enjoy feeding an iPod, and listening to one continuously can be fatiguing. Our generation also doesn't have a lot of time on their hands, and while sometimes sitting and researching bands may be fine, there is plenty of time where one wants to just "flip something on", and in the case of a WNEW, hear some new music and some of their favorite alternative. That's why radio, though its TSL may vary, still remains a part of the listening portfolio of over 90% of Americans above age 12.

The thing is the spectrum varies infinitely - I for one tend to feed my iPod about once a week and listen to it while at the gym, on public transportation, engaging in recreation, and occasionally at home. I listen to the radio while in the car about 90% of the time, at work 100%, and often at home while doing work. Sometimes iPod randomness is fine; sometimes I want to listen to something someone is paid full-time to program. My friend, on the other hand, NEVER uses his iPod in the car and relies exclusively on radio, but NEVER uses radio outside of the car. Another friend claims to never listen to radio but listens to Z-100, Fresh, and WPLJ (there goes that callsign brand again) whenever we are driving, much to my amusement.

Radio still works - but it has the worst perception on earth aside from Wal Mart and american car companies (perception lags reality). The media loves to label things - and radio is labeled as "uncool" and "old". It doesn't help radio doesn't invest enough in public relations (my day job).

It also doesn't help that Clear Channel has marginalized the business through cutthroat business practices, forcing "real" radio companies to match them on their cheapness. Hence the huge losses going around these days, and cookie-cutter formats with central servers in Idaho. I trust that this someday will pass.

The new WNEW would not suck and does not have to sounds like Vin Scelsa to do so. I strongly suggest you listen to WXRT for a few minutes (www.wxrt.com). Over 5,000 songs in rotation and plenty of DJ input for the rest, plus great specialty shows ranging from Jazz to live concert sessions. This is a station that will play Cat Power with the latest Killers and a dash of classic Oasis, followed by the Clash and a segment they call "Local Anesthetic Capsule", which is a local band that ties into a larger specialty show called "The Local Anesthetic".

I sound like I am a raving idiot going on and on about the station, but few commercial AAAs, or commercial stations in general, are better programmed in my opinion than this.

And this is coming from a New Jersey DJ who has worked at a commercial alternative station and manages/hosts the Rutgers radio station that does a freeform AAA format - where we pick all the music. And even my music snob friends at the station tend to like it.
 
Radio still works because it is SO DAMN EASY and it is FREE. It's always there and requires no effort. It requires ZERO effort. Even TV requires some effort because you can't bring it everywhere. Satellite has flopped (4% of market in 10 years, operating in red) and broadband still lacks the functionality, locality, leverage, and professionalism of local radio.

Radio will be great again, and there are diamonds in the rough (107.1 The Peak in Westchester County, NY, G Rock 106.3 in Jersey, KFOG, and even WCBS-FM) which will enlighten the business to rebuild once again.

HD sucks now but just like FM (invented in the 40s, took off in the 70s) will only become real when the FCC increases power this year and radios only COME in HD (therefore making every new radio HD and ending the IBOC debate). And the HD stations will eventually get better, just as when FM started as automated reel-to-reel stations. And, just like then, no one listened to FM until the right content was put on it.
 
wrsurocks said:
. And, just like then, no one listened to FM until the right content was put on it.

HD power increases will destroy the band....

And FM did not get significant listening for over 25 years until the government legislated separate, non-simulcast programming.
 
I agree HD will destroy analog FM...but unless the FCC gives radio some other space now forfeited by the digital TV move there is no choice, except perhaps a gradual increase.

I know, for example, that I can no longer get 92.5 WXTU from Philadelphia anymore because of HD sideband interference from 92.3 WXRK in New York.
 
TheBigA said:
fang39 said:
Again, time to rethink the model.

OK...you want to tell the ad agencies that everything they know is wrong? Good luck. Most of the problems with radio programming today can be traced to ad agencies. It's why WCBS doesn't play do wop. It's why radio stations don't target teens. It's why fringe formats aren't embraced. It's all because of advertising. If you could find another way to fund programming without advertising, everyone would be happier. But subscription radio is having limited success, and public radio, which is supported by members, is also having financial trouble.

I do agree on all points.
 
The WNEW calls ain't coming back to New York anymore. It's now parked in West Palm Beach, Florida as B-106.3. Can't you see the link? It's at the bottom of the page.

http://www.b1063fm.com/

There is also a web streaming and an HD-2 channel as people know it as WNEW for newer rock music on WWFS HD-2. Here is the link to a WNEW site. They had streaming too.

http://www.wnew.com

wrsurocks said:
Radio will be great again, and there are diamonds in the rough (107.1 The Peak in Westchester County, NY, G Rock 106.3 in Jersey, KFOG, and even WCBS-FM) which will enlighten the business to rebuild once again.

But you forgot WPDH and WBPM. Thiose were the two HV stations are all playing classic rock, except WBPM had some lighter classic rock that what WNEW-FM remembers.

wrsurocks said:
HD sucks now but just like FM (invented in the 40s, took off in the 70s) will only become real when the FCC increases power this year and radios only COME in HD (therefore making every new radio HD and ending the IBOC debate). And the HD stations will eventually get better, just as when FM started as automated reel-to-reel stations. And, just like then, no one listened to FM until the right content was put on it.

I don't have HD radio. I listened to Satellite Radio on the internet and it's free.
 
disney fanatic said:
The WNEW calls ain't coming back to New York anymore. It's now parked in West Palm Beach, Florida as B-106.3. Can't you see the link? It's at the bottom of the page.

Duh. Guess who parked the WNEW calls there? CBS.

This isn't brain surgery. The WNEW calls are there for safe keeping in case CBS wants to revive them for NYC one day. Why do you think the Florida station changed call letters to WNEW and still calls itself "B" anything? The call letters are insignificant and temporary there. They probably whisper "WNEW" at the top of the hour and no one notices, because nobody in West Palm cares.

But CBS cares. With a little FCC paperwork, the WNEW calls could come back to New York...or go anywhere CBS wants them...at any time. Smart move on CBS's part, and good insurance just in case there IS value in the WNEW calls and heritage.
 
NoMoreLurking said:
Duh. Guess who parked the WNEW calls there? CBS.

This isn't brain surgery. The WNEW calls are there for safe keeping in case CBS wants to revive them for NYC one day. Why do you think the Florida station changed call letters to WNEW and still calls itself "B" anything? The call letters are insignificant and temporary there. They probably whisper "WNEW" at the top of the hour and no one notices, because nobody in West Palm cares.

But CBS cares. With a little FCC paperwork, the WNEW calls could come back to New York...or go anywhere CBS wants them...at any time. Smart move on CBS's part, and good insurance just in case there IS value in the WNEW calls and heritage.

I know you're talking about, it was WJBW where they changed the call letters to WNEW prior to the launch last year as WWFS "Fresh".

Here is the plan. Why not bring back the WNEW calls and get rid of the WWFS calls, because "Fresh" is a bad station and it's still hurting "Lite-FM" and WPLJ. Too many AC stations, just like WCZX, WHUD, WRNQ and WCTW, all four of the HV stations had too much AC in the format. As for NYC, get rid of WWFS and bring the WNEW calls back where it really belongs. And as for West Palm Beach, bring back the WJBW calls and leave them alone.

Take a look in Chicago, they also got the same format under the name "Fresh". Now they got two of them carried the name "Fresh", New York City has that on 102.7 and Chicago has that too on 105.9. Both of these stations in these two states are not doing well. Remember it was WCKG, now it's WCFS.

Let's hope if it's coming back, WNEW does not belong in Florida. Remember WBPM when it on at 94.3? It was a good station for its time when it was "B-94", "Rhythm 94.3" and "Cool 94.3" before it went to Country and the new set of calls like WKXP which is country, why not simulcast AAA from 107.1 which is WXPK. That's not going to happen.

WBPM on 92.9 is a bad sign for the frequency. I don't see the WBPM calls returning to 94.3, that not happening anytime soon.

To get back to the WNEW thing, I wish if they can swap formats in the future to go with this one. Here is the list of what formats need to swap:

WNEW - New Rock - FM/HD-1
WNEW - AC "Fresh" - HD-2
WNEW - 1010 WINS Simulcast - HD-3
 
Precisely - and even looking at this past week's events seems to preclude that they are planning something.

What do you think would be the best way to bring back the station?
 
disney fanatic said:
NoMoreLurking said:
Duh. Guess who parked the WNEW calls there? CBS.

This isn't brain surgery. The WNEW calls are there for safe keeping in case CBS wants to revive them for NYC one day. Why do you think the Florida station changed call letters to WNEW and still calls itself "B" anything? The call letters are insignificant and temporary there. They probably whisper "WNEW" at the top of the hour and no one notices, because nobody in West Palm cares.

But CBS cares. With a little FCC paperwork, the WNEW calls could come back to New York...or go anywhere CBS wants them...at any time. Smart move on CBS's part, and good insurance just in case there IS value in the WNEW calls and heritage.

I know you're talking about, it was WJBW where they changed the call letters to WNEW prior to the launch last year as WWFS "Fresh".

Here is the plan. Why not bring back the WNEW calls and get rid of the WWFS calls, because "Fresh" is a bad station and it's still hurting "Lite-FM" and WPLJ. Too many AC stations, just like WCZX, WHUD, WRNQ and WCTW, all four of the HV stations had too much AC in the format. As for NYC, get rid of WWFS and bring the WNEW calls back where it really belongs. And as for West Palm Beach, bring back the WJBW calls and leave them alone.

Wouldn't that be a reason NOT to take away Fresh? If it's hurting WLTW and WPLJ, which are not CBS stations, then Fresh must be doing a good job. For some reason it's a station everyone on the message boards loves to hate, but the station is doing pretty well and I'm sure that CBS is happy with its performance. Let's not let wishful thinking and nostalgia get in the way of reality.

Take a look in Chicago, they also got the same format under the name "Fresh". Now they got two of them carried the name "Fresh", New York City has that on 102.7 and Chicago has that too on 105.9. Both of these stations in these two states are not doing well. Remember it was WCKG, now it's WCFS.

I can't speak for Chicago, nor does what is happening in Chicago really matter as far as NYC is concerned, but Fresh here is doing pretty well. It's not exactly Lite FM or Z100 but it's been pretty consistent and solid for CBS and like you admitted, it hurts Lite FM and PLJ. It certainly is doing MUCH better than K-Rock is overall.

Let's hope if it's coming back, WNEW does not belong in Florida. Remember WBPM when it on at 94.3? It was a good station for its time when it was "B-94", "Rhythm 94.3" and "Cool 94.3" before it went to Country and the new set of calls like WKXP which is country, why not simulcast AAA from 107.1 which is WXPK. That's not going to happen.

You know something? It may sound sacrilegious, but it's JUST A CALL SIGN. I think most WNEW fans from its rock days have moved on already...WFUV, 107.1 The Peak, internet radio, satellite radio, college radio, maybe even Q104.3 or the three people listening to RXP. As someone else said earlier in the thread, returning WNEW to 102.7 and placing rock on their again will just come across as gimmicky and you'll see the usual chorus of people saying how unoriginal it is, how it's not like the old WNEW, how the playlist is too limited, how the playlist is too wide, etc., etc. When you bring back a name like that, you bring with it expectations that you can bet it will not meet. But even more importantly is the fact that other than a couple of people on message boards, NO ONE is clamoring to bring WNEW back. There was no real outcry in 1999, and there still isn't today. As has been said already: sometimes it's best to let sleeping dogs lie.

WBPM on 92.9 is a bad sign for the frequency. I don't see the WBPM calls returning to 94.3, that not happening anytime soon.

Why does everything you say have to be connected to the Hudson Valley stations? What do they possibly have to do with what is going on here?

To get back to the WNEW thing, I wish if they can swap formats in the future to go with this one. Here is the list of what formats need to swap:

WNEW - New Rock - FM/HD-1
WNEW - AC "Fresh" - HD-2
WNEW - 1010 WINS Simulcast - HD-3

That is absurdly silly. What would the point of having Fresh on HD2 be when there's going to continue to be plenty of AC competitors on regular FM and HD1? And I never agreed with the AM simulcasts on HD, though I suppose those will be staying for a while (another sign of stale, uncreative thinking by the radio "suits").
 
neo11 said:
disney fanatic said:
NoMoreLurking said:
Duh. Guess who parked the WNEW calls there? CBS.

This isn't brain surgery. The WNEW calls are there for safe keeping in case CBS wants to revive them for NYC one day. Why do you think the Florida station changed call letters to WNEW and still calls itself "B" anything? The call letters are insignificant and temporary there. They probably whisper "WNEW" at the top of the hour and no one notices, because nobody in West Palm cares.

But CBS cares. With a little FCC paperwork, the WNEW calls could come back to New York...or go anywhere CBS wants them...at any time. Smart move on CBS's part, and good insurance just in case there IS value in the WNEW calls and heritage.

I know you're talking about, it was WJBW where they changed the call letters to WNEW prior to the launch last year as WWFS "Fresh".

Here is the plan. Why not bring back the WNEW calls and get rid of the WWFS calls, because "Fresh" is a bad station and it's still hurting "Lite-FM" and WPLJ. Too many AC stations, just like WCZX, WHUD, WRNQ and WCTW, all four of the HV stations had too much AC in the format. As for NYC, get rid of WWFS and bring the WNEW calls back where it really belongs. And as for West Palm Beach, bring back the WJBW calls and leave them alone.

Wouldn't that be a reason NOT to take away Fresh? If it's hurting WLTW and WPLJ, which are not CBS stations, then Fresh must be doing a good job. For some reason it's a station everyone on the message boards loves to hate, but the station is doing pretty well and I'm sure that CBS is happy with its performance. Let's not let wishful thinking and nostalgia get in the way of reality.

Take a look in Chicago, they also got the same format under the name "Fresh". Now they got two of them carried the name "Fresh", New York City has that on 102.7 and Chicago has that too on 105.9. Both of these stations in these two states are not doing well. Remember it was WCKG, now it's WCFS.

I can't speak for Chicago, nor does what is happening in Chicago really matter as far as NYC is concerned, but Fresh here is doing pretty well. It's not exactly Lite FM or Z100 but it's been pretty consistent and solid for CBS and like you admitted, it hurts Lite FM and PLJ. It certainly is doing MUCH better than K-Rock is overall.

I would move Fresh down to 92.3 and put K-Rock out of its misery.

neo11 said:
disney fanatic said:
Let's hope if it's coming back, WNEW does not belong in Florida. Remember WBPM when it on at 94.3? It was a good station for its time when it was "B-94", "Rhythm 94.3" and "Cool 94.3" before it went to Country and the new set of calls like WKXP which is country, why not simulcast AAA from 107.1 which is WXPK. That's not going to happen.

You know something? It may sound sacrilegious, but it's JUST A CALL SIGN. I think most WNEW fans from its rock days have moved on already...WFUV, 107.1 The Peak, internet radio, satellite radio, college radio, maybe even Q104.3 or the three people listening to RXP. As someone else said earlier in the thread, returning WNEW to 102.7 and placing rock on their again will just come across as gimmicky and you'll see the usual chorus of people saying how unoriginal it is, how it's not like the old WNEW, how the playlist is too limited, how the playlist is too wide, etc., etc. When you bring back a name like that, you bring with it expectations that you can bet it will not meet. But even more importantly is the fact that other than a couple of people on message boards, NO ONE is clamoring to bring WNEW back. There was no real outcry in 1999, and there still isn't today. As has been said already: sometimes it's best to let sleeping dogs lie.

It's a call sign with a heritage and a great brand value. Just like WCBS-FM. That's why they held on to it. They held on the WXRK for the same reason when they flipped to Free-FM. They parked it in Cleveland for easy recall if/when Free flopped. The time to resurrect it is now, when the radio dial is stagnant with the same ol'-same ol' and looking for an injection. I think a "new" WNEW-FM, launched as a Classic/Modern Rock/AAA hybrid would do very well in the city. Combine the programming sensibilities of great stations like The Peak and WEHM with recognizable jocks like Dave Herman, Dennis Elsas and Meg Griffin would make for a great listen.
 
fang39 said:
I would move Fresh down to 92.3 and put K-Rock out of its misery.

I would put K-Rock out of its misery too but I *still* don't see the point of moving Fresh to 92.3. Just because WNEW was on 102.7 a long time ago? And confuse listeners who have already found Fresh on 102.7 with so many other AC competitors out there? It makes NO sense.

It's a call sign with a heritage and a great brand value. Just like WCBS-FM. That's why they held on to it. They held on the WXRK for the same reason when they flipped to Free-FM. They parked it in Cleveland for easy recall if/when Free flopped. The time to resurrect it is now, when the radio dial is stagnant with the same ol'-same ol' and looking for an injection. I think a "new" WNEW-FM, launched as a Classic/Modern Rock/AAA hybrid would do very well in the city. Combine the programming sensibilities of great stations like The Peak and WEHM with recognizable jocks like Dave Herman, Dennis Elsas and Meg Griffin would make for a great listen.

The "brand value" is overrated. WNEW as a rock station was not doing well for a long time. Things will be even more difficult for it 10 years later. WCBS-FM is not a good comparison for the simple reason that it has consistently done *much* better than WNEW ever did, and because it's been a continuous presence on the NYC dial, save for the short time when it was "jacked."

And a classic/modern rock/AAA hybrid? Isn't that more or less what RXP is? We've seen how that's doing.

If you're going to launch a new rock station of any kind in NYC, it's just as likely to do well on 92.3 as it is on 102.7 or any other full-power frequency. I don't think people had trouble finding the "new" KTU on 103.5, just because its predecessor, 11 years prior, had been on 92.3. It's the same thing here.

And quite honestly, bringing back all of the old jocks? It just comes across as gimmicky and more of a trip down nostalgia lane than anything else. No disrespect to those jocks whatsoever. But sometimes you just have to let go of the past. I'm sure those jocks have.
 
neo11,

As with most posts, I agree with you on what you said above about brand equity.

Returning WNEW specifically to 102.7 would bring about a lot more buzz, AND it would make the diehards out there very happy - there are more than you would believe and I have some anecdotal proof from hearing callers and random people talk about it. Think about the headlines that could be played off of it. And its costs CBS nothing to do - they would run spots during the stunting to have people go over to 92 for Fresh.
 
To add to what NOMoreLurking and other posters, the WNEW call signs are probably the most historic call letters in the United States dating back to the glory days of WNEW-AM on 1250 and then came the Make Believe Ballroom. The history continued with the birth of WNEW-FM.

CBS parked the WNEW call signs to prevent another station picking them up.And to see another radio company pick up the WNEW call letters, CBS may have asked a high price for those call letters.

I still think CBS/Viacom should have kept the WNEW call letters. But management may have thought that listeners may have associated the WNEW call letters with the rock station.So, therefore, they threw the baby out with the bath water.





Thanks,
Kevin L. Sealy
 
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