And a really big hand for...

[cd637299]

Re the emcees above----Carol Burnett was also a singing emcee, but you can put that loosely, although I loved her show. When she would duet with the vocal greats, all I could think is "Ewwwww". I wonder if any of the vocalists objected to being, errrr, "joined" by CB.

One of you here gave me a rundown of the Billboard 200 LP's that Carol appeared on---IIRC the total was one, and it peaked around #197 for 1 week.

That's show biz!

Ed knew to bow out of that part of his really big shoe.

cd

 

[bpatrick]

What has always puzzled me is that Ed's format should have been
the simplest to duplicate, but no one has succeeded. How many
of you know that Walter Winchell, Ed's journalistic rival, went down
to quick defeat in 1956 and again in 1960? Who remembers "Saturday
Night Live With Howard Cosell" (remembered now only as "the other
Saturday Night Live") or "Dick Clark's Live Wednesday"? Winchell never
really translated from radio to television, either as news commentator
or host; ABC tended to ignore the fact that Cosell grated on a lot
of people, and I can't explain Clark's failure except that by 1978 the audience
was too fragmented to support such a show. "The Hollywood Palace" came
close but it did not have a regular host (Bing Crosby might have made a good
one if he'd wanted it).

I'd have to say that Ed's ability to book the acts people wanted to see, when
they wanted to see them, and his innate likability despite his garble-de-goofs,
makes him a rarer talent than the traditional variety-show stars like Berle, Gleason,
Caesar, etc. (I can only put Ted Mack, who simply introduced a succession of
amateur acts, in the same category; he wasn't awkward and he kept himself low-key,
but you couldn't help but like him.) (I wish DuMont hadn't blocked Ted's impending
move to CBS in 1949; he would have been Sullivan's lead-in, and given that both their
shows were part of the Sunday viewing ritual when I was a kid, I'd give anything to see
how they would have done back-to-back.)

 

[BD Sullivan]

Who remembers "Saturday Night Live With Howard Cosell" (remembered now only as "the other
Saturday Night Live") or "Dick Clark's Live Wednesday"? Winchell never
really translated from radio to television, either as news commentator
or host; ABC tended to ignore the fact that Cosell grated on a lot
of people, and I can't explain Clark's failure except that by 1978 the audience
was too fragmented to support such a show. "The Hollywood Palace" came
close but it did not have a regular host (Bing Crosby might have made a good
one if he'd wanted it).

Cosell's show got on the air for a few reasons: Roone Arledge was riding high at the time and was one of Cosell's most ardent defenders. I'm guessing his ego was big enough to think that HE could make it a success, Cosell's unpopularity be damned. Also, it was on Saturday night, which was a graveyard for ABC shows, so it's not as if it was a huge risk. What's ironic is that virtually all of ABC's new shows in the Fall of '75 bombed, yet the replacements, as well as other assets (i.e. Winter Olympics) quickly turned ABC into the #1 network.

Clark's problem was that Eight is Enough was starting to take control of the time slot on ABC and CBS led off the evening with The Jeffersons. In addition, Clark brought back long-gone acts from the 50's and 60's (in part so he could use clips from previous appearances on AB) and his choice of "modern" acts were typical of adults who think "the kids will like this."

 

[radiorob2.0]

WABC radio's longtime program director Rick Sklar talked about the Cosell show in his book "Rockin America". Cosell wanted The Beatles for his debut show and wanted Sklar to make it happen. Sklar had to explain the Beatles had broken up and won't get back together for any reason. It finally sank in that Cosell was not going to get The Beatles so he decided to debut a new act from across the pond on his debut, The Bay City Rollers.

 

[bpatrick]

According to ABC's publicity, Cosell wanted John Lennon
to appear on-stage with the Bay City Rollers, but Yoko
was pregnant and Lennon had "gone into seclusion."
(Maybe he knew the Rollers would never succeed to
the Beatles' throne.)

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

I've heard a story that one time Frank Fay was testifying in court,
and when asked after he took the stand to state his name and occupation,
answered, "Frank Fay, the world's greatest comedian." Asked later why he
said that he answered, "I had to. I was under oath."

Asking that question was no less than Faye's lawyer, who may have offered the greatest eyeroll in the annals of justice.

 

[BD Sullivan]

According to ABC's publicity, Cosell wanted John Lennon
to appear on-stage with the Bay City Rollers, but Yoko
was pregnant and Lennon had "gone into seclusion."
(Maybe he knew the Rollers would never succeed to
the Beatles' throne.)

She was three weeks from giving birth after what had been a very difficult pregnancy (she was 42 at the time), so I'm guessing it was a pretty easy decision to make for John. I recall they hyped the Rollers as "the next Beatles," which was good for a laugh then and now.

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

According to ABC's publicity, Cosell wanted John Lennon
to appear on-stage with the Bay City Rollers, but Yoko
was pregnant and Lennon had "gone into seclusion."
(Maybe he knew the Rollers would never succeed to
the Beatles' throne.)

...they hyped the Rollers as "the next Beatles," which was good for a laugh then and now.

Not as laughable as Yoko's singing.

 

[joeybabe25]

Sullivan was perhaps the most wooden and uninspiring host that has ever graced stage or TV. He was anything but a comedian and not much of a host either.

I think that's why people loved him. They could identify with all of that!

Joe

 

[Corky Marlowe]

A couple more very short lived attempts to recreate the Sullivan show through the "host who's not a performer" route: "Live And In Person", hosted by Sandy Gallin, who was Dolly Parton and Kenny Rogers' manager. This was at the time (fall of 1983) when their duet "Islands In The Stream" was topping the pop charts, so guess who showed up on the premiere episode.

Also, am I nuts, or did Larry King have a variety show around 1990? It may have even been a special, and the musical guests were, so help me, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I looked it up on IMDB, and nothing.

 

[pgtcf7806]

Sadly, Berle was still under the assumption he was Mr. Television in 1979, when he hosted Saturday Night Live. Throughout the course of the week, he did his best to irritate virtually everyone connected to the show with this attitude. The end result was that Berle's appearance was the only one not included in the syndicated package of that first incarnation of SNL.
[/quote]

At least John Belushi stood up for Milton Berle that week...the actual problem was the fact that the SNL writers were writing him stuff that would have probably sent Johnny Carson into a violent rage had they tried that on him. Berle (probably correctly) probably thought he would behave stupidly to match the material they were throwing at him.

 

[BD Sullivan]

Also, am I nuts, or did Larry King have a variety show around 1990? It may have even been a special, and the musical guests were, so help me, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I looked it up on IMDB, and nothing.

You are not nuts, and you had the year correct. It was an NBC special, "Sunday Night with Larry King," on October 28, 1990. It was set up as a pilot, but presumably didn't get high enough ratings to have additional shows. The one thing I remember about this show was how odd it looked that King wore a suit.

 

[Ultimajock]

Also, am I nuts, or did Larry King have a variety show around 1990? It may have even been a special, and the musical guests were, so help me, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I looked it up on IMDB, and nothing.

You are not nuts, and you had the year correct. It was an NBC special, "Sunday Night with Larry King," on October 28, 1990. It was set up as a pilot, but presumably didn't get high enough ratings to have additional shows. The one thing I remember about this show was how odd it looked that King wore a suit.

...one of the other "guests," as I recall, was Bart Simpson, with King "interviewing" pre-animated clips of Nancy Cartwright's voice...

 

[bpatrick]

I wish the quasi-spinoff of "SNL," "Sunday Night" (aka "Michelob Presents
Night Music" and produced by Lorne Michaels), had lasted longer. That
show dabbled in all types of music and was especially prone to smooth jazz,
which I love. With saxophonist David Sanborn concentrating on the music,
and British rocker Jools Holland interacting with the acts, this show might never
have been a real hit, but certainly might have attracted some of the same audience
as "SNL," since both shows had an eclectic mix of musical guests. Unfortunately, this
show lasted only three years (1987-90).

 

[FredLeonard]

Walter Cronkite, and others, have pointed out that Ed Sullivan was - by background and experience - a newspaperman. Like a newspaper editor, he kept the show current, organized the show to build interest and had an eye for what people were interested in that week.

Walter Cronkite recounted in a documentary, how the CBS Evening News did a news story from Britain about this hot rock group from the cellars of Liverpool. As the credits were still running (as Uncle Walter lit his pipe on air), the hotline rang in the newsroom. It was Ed (who, of course, had the number). Wanting information on "those kids." CBS News' London correspondent provided contact information, and Ed booked the Beatles.

Milton Berle was intense and did the same act week after week. The show was about him and revolved around him and eventually people got tired of him. The Ed Sullivan Show was never about Ed. Fred Allen famously said, "Ed Sullivan will have a job as long as somebody else has talent."

 

[BD Sullivan]

Walter Cronkite recounted in a documentary, how the CBS Evening News did a news story from Britain about this hot rock group from the cellars of Liverpool. As the credits were still running (as Uncle Walter lit his pipe on air), the hotline rang in the newsroom. It was Ed (who, of course, had the number). Wanting information on "those kids." CBS News' London correspondent provided contact information, and Ed booked the Beatles.

Cronkite also noted that before the Beatles were on Ed Sullivan, his teenage daughters didn't really care much about what he did for a living. However, because of his stature, he was able to bring them to the group's rehearsals, where the daughters then met the Fab Four. After that, they paid a little more attention.

 

[cd637299]

About Berle...in the late 40s he was Mr. Television because his variety show apparently stood out among whatever else was on at that time, which sure wasn't a lot. True, Sullivan started in 1948, but maybe his show took a while to catch on.

I have video of his Texaco Star Theater from '48, and his schtick would never work today. Popular as he was, he sure could be obnoxious, especially if he told a joke, and the punchline didn't get a lot of laughs---he'd say, "I SAID, [repeat punchline]." Johnny Carson did bad punchlines much better, just being silent, hands in pockets, waiting for more laughter---or, as I saw once, pulling down the microphone, "testing" it, as if nobody heard.....

cd

 

[FredLeonard]

Another factor in Uncle Miltie's demise: He was good friends with Phil Silvers and had Silver's as a guest on his show. Based on that appearance, Silver's was offered a TV series. Miltie urged him to take it. The show they developed was Sgt. Bilko. CBS scheduled it opposite Uncle Miltie and Bilko creamed him in the ratings.

What goes around comes around. Walter Cronkite did a 50s show called "You Are There," which dramatized historical events as though they were being covered by live TV ("Douglas Edwards is standing by outside the Roman Senate where Julius Caesar is expected to arrive. Doug ...") The show's director was Sidney Lumet. He later directed a movie about TV news called "Network" and cast Uncle Walter's daughter in it.

 

[Corky Marlowe]

What goes around comes around. Walter Cronkite did a 50s show called "You Are There," which dramatized historical events as though they were being covered by live TV ("Douglas Edwards is standing by outside the Roman Senate where Julius Caesar is expected to arrive. Doug ...")

Can you imagine that show today? "We've just received a tweet from Thomas Jefferson..."

 

[landtuna]

I have video of his Texaco Star Theater from '48, and his schtick would never work today. Popular as he was, he sure could be obnoxious, especially if he told a joke, and the punchline didn't get a lot of laughs---he'd say, "I SAID, [repeat punchline]."

Jay Leno just yells the punchline. Seems to work for him (but is the primary reason I don't watch Jay).