And KSUR's next move: All Classical

[jbl]

Perhaps someone that knows the Levines could tell us about when the KMZT translator (K252FO) on 98.3 will return to the air, its been off for months now, even though it's still being station ID'd along with AM 1260 and FM 105.1 HD-4.

This might be the reason From Radio Locator

This station may also be operating under this Construction Permit:
Status	Construction Permit for a Class D FM Translator
Area of Coverage	View Coverage Map
Effective Radiated Power	250 Watts
Height above Ground Level	65.5 meters (215 feet)
Height above Sea Level	446.5 meters (1465 feet)
Transmitter Location	34° 17' 03" N, 118° 28' 23" W
Construction Permit Granted	January 11 2021
Construction Permit Expires	January 11 2024
Last FCC Update	January 11 2021

 

[boombox4]

So stop complaining that there aren't many HD receivers in use and find and buy one. Now that so much shopping is online, it doesn't matter as much as it used to that you can't get something at the local big-box location.

Exactly. Sangean has some good sounding, affordable HD radios.

 

[boombox4]

Did you miss the part where I said most people are listening to radio in their car? And the average age of cars on the road today is 11 years old -- which is old enough to not have HD Radio, but new enough for the audio system to be integrated into the design of the dashboard, and thus not easily replaceable by an aftermarket head unit.

Fair enough, but 11 years ago it was 2010 and HD radio has been around since before then.

 

[michael hagerty]

Fair enough, but 11 years ago it was 2010 and HD radio has been around since before then.

Around, yes. Standard equipment, no. That took time, and it’s still not standard in a lot of base models (it’s usually part of upgraded “premium” audio systems).

Also, the average age of cars on the road is 11 years—-which means half are older than that.

 

[Rusty Muck]

Fair enough, but 11 years ago it was 2010 and HD radio has been around since before then.

HD Radio dates back to 2000. The IBOC standard on AM has been in practice in some form since c. 2002.

What doomed the concept before it launched is 1.) the lack of practical backwards compatibility and 2.) it was all proprietary and 3.) unless you’re a radio geek, you’re going to want a CHEAP radio, not THE BEST radio (if you want a radio at all).

 

[TheBigA]

3.) unless you’re a radio geek, you’re going to want a CHEAP radio, not THE BEST radio (if you want a radio at all).

That's the thing: For a lot of people, the ONLY home radio they own is a clock-radio. Only one company makes one with HD, and that's Sangean, and they start at $50. That's twice the price of an average clock radio. Most people don't want to spend that kind of money for a radio. They already own an alarm in their phone.

 

[TomásEstefan]

This might be the reason From Radio Locator

This station may also be operating under this Construction Permit:
Status	Construction Permit for a Class D FM Translator
Area of Coverage	View Coverage Map
Effective Radiated Power	250 Watts
Height above Ground Level	65.5 meters (215 feet)
Height above Sea Level	446.5 meters (1465 feet)
Transmitter Location	34° 17' 03" N, 118° 28' 23" W
Construction Permit Granted	January 11 2021
Construction Permit Expires	January 11 2024
Last FCC Update	January 11 2021

This CP was granted nearly a year ago...(for a new 250 W facility in Granada Hills). It doesn't really explain why the 100 W operation from the Malibu Hills has been off the air for months.

 

[101tm]

That's the thing: For a lot of people, the ONLY home radio they own is a clock-radio. Only one company makes one with HD, and that's Sangean, and they start at $50. That's twice the price of an average clock radio. Most people don't want to spend that kind of money for a radio. They already own an alarm in their phone.

What I feel a lot of people on these boards don’t get is radio usage at the home among the desirable demographics (and probably even older) for radio has been in a free fall for years. Who seriously still goes and turns their boom box/clunky bookshelf system/etc on to hear a radio station if they have a smart home device (where all you have to say is “Alexa, play Go Coutry” for example) and she does the rest… or you have a basic smartphone that can handle apps where you can stream it on iheartradio, TuneIn, Audacy, SiriusXM, etc - not to mention Spotify, Pandora, Apple Music, and other on demand services.

Older listeners may be less likely to have smart devices, but outside of news/talk and NPR, I’m not sure if there’s much on terrestrial radio that appeals to them? This demo is already irrelevant to these OTA companies anyway as they’re out of the demographic.

My point: outside of the car, where even you can stream via Bluetooth I feel HD technology has largely lost the little relevance it had to the listener experience where they can literally get anything they want via streaming. People aren’t buying radios like they did even 15 years ago, and if they do it’s generally going to be a cheap emergency radio or a cheap boom box for a garage or something. And most of even those come with Bluetooth. I have one radio in my house a radio enthusiast, and I mainly use it for DX’ing or just scanning signals. If I want background music I use my phone or smart speaker.

 

[davideduardo]

What I feel a lot of people on these boards don’t get is radio usage at the home among the desirable demographics (and probably even older) for radio has been in a free fall for years. Who seriously still goes and turns their boom box/clunky bookshelf system/etc on to hear a radio station if they have a smart home device (where all you have to say is “Alexa, play Go Coutry” for example) and she does the rest… or you have a basic smartphone that can handle apps where you can stream it on iheartradio, TuneIn, Audacy, SiriusXM, etc - not to mention Spotify, Pandora, Apple Music, and other on demand services.

Yet over 50% of radio listening is not in the car. Lots of the home listening is, of course, from saying "Alexa, play K-Lite 101" or something similar. But radio is not dead for home and work listening. Much fixed location listening is being replaced by changes in the device, not the programming.

 

[TheBigA]

What I feel a lot of people on these boards don’t get is radio usage at the home among the desirable demographics (and probably even older) for radio has been in a free fall for years.

I think everyone who works in radio knows and understands that. They may use a clock radio to wake up, but then turn it off and put on GMA or Today for breakfast.

My point: outside of the car, where even you can stream via Bluetooth I feel HD technology has largely lost the little relevance it had to the listener experience where they can literally get anything they want via streaming.

Except that HD is more similar operationally to FM than it is to streaming. Because streaming requires a subscription, user name, and password. Streaming also requires a certain amount of programming, while radio does not. So most people understand these are two different devices and different functions. They may do neither of them in the home. Home has become more of a viewing place rather than a listening place. The days of the big expensive home stereo are long gone. Instead you have the large screen TV.

 

[101tm]

Yet over 50% of radio listening is not in the car. Lots of the home listening is, of course, from saying "Alexa, play K-Lite 101" or something similar. But radio is not dead for home and work listening. Much fixed location listening is being replaced by changes in the device, not the programming.

Exactly, smart devices like Alexa, Google, etc are the new “radios.” That’s why I don’t really think adding HD capability to radios that could be used in the home would be beneficial for the medium at this point.

 

[TheBigA]

Exactly, smart devices like Alexa, Google, etc are the new “radios.” That’s why I don’t really think adding HD capability to radios that could be used in the home would be beneficial for the medium at this point.

Keep in mind that HD is a patented technology whose sale is only beneficial to the patent holder. The medium is the medium, regardless of the technology. The owners of KKGO & KSUR (KMZT) is very excited about HD radio because he only owns two frequencies, and HD gives him the ability to own a few more. But his situation is unique to him.

 

[Rusty Muck]

That's the thing: For a lot of people, the ONLY home radio they own is a clock-radio. Only one company makes one with HD, and that's Sangean, and they start at $50. That's twice the price of an average clock radio. Most people don't want to spend that kind of money for a radio. They already own an alarm in their phone.

I still have a GE clock radio from 1992. That works like a charm… even though the tuning capabilities on AM aren’t the best, the fidelity is better than most, even my car radio. (It’s also the most effective alarm clock I have.)

 

[Rusty Muck]

Keep in mind that HD is a patented technology whose sale is only beneficial to the patent holder. The medium is the medium, regardless of the technology. The owners of KKGO & KSUR (KMZT) is very excited about HD radio because he only owns two frequencies, and HD gives him the ability to own a few more. But his situation is unique to him.

And given how music royalties work, it’s actually more cost-effective for Saul to multiplex KKGO as much as he can while also having the formats online for a general audience. A win-win for him.

iHeart does similar with their marquee national format streams, placing a direct relay on a HD sub somewhere to help with royalties. Heck, at one point Casey Kasem’s AT40 replay channel was relayed on an iHeart HD sub somewhere in rural Texas and that might still be the case.

 

[michael hagerty]

I really wonder how many people use a clock radio. I got my first iPhone 9 years ago, and have used its alarm ever since. It can only be set to an alarm sound or a single song in my Apple Music library, but that was preferable to waking up in the middle of a six-minute commercial stopset (yes, I work for an NPR station now, but the clock radio is long gone).

Now, apparently, using Shortcuts, you actually can get the iPhone alarm to play a radio station’s stream:

https://www.iphonefaq.org/archives/977561

 

[TheBigA]

I really wonder how many people use a clock radio. I got my first iPhone 9 years ago, and have used its alarm ever since.

What do we always say about anecdotal research?

 

[michael hagerty]

What do we always say about anecdotal research?

That’s why I wonder instead of extrapolating. I’d like to see it included as a question in a survey.

 

[vchimpanzee]

That's the thing: For a lot of people, the ONLY home radio they own is a clock-radio. Only one company makes one with HD, and that's Sangean, and they start at $50. That's twice the price of an average clock radio. Most people don't want to spend that kind of money for a radio. They already own an alarm in their phone.

I don't remember when I bought my last clock radio, but I know that it automatically changed when Daylight Savings Time began. However, it automatically changed on the wrong date (that means I bought it before 2007) so I had to turn that feature off and manually changing the time requires a master's degree.

After Mike Huckabee quit doing his Paul Harvey type broadcasts I had no reason to use that one, and it turned itself on for 20 minutes no matter what (if I turn it off, it'll just turn itself on for 20 minutes, treating the previous act of turning it off as a snooze bar). I turn off my clock radio in the morning the minute it comes on, so I had to use an older one.

 

[gr8oldies]

And given how music royalties work, it’s actually more cost-effective for Saul to multiplex KKGO as much as he can while also having the formats online for a general audience. A win-win for him.

iHeart does similar with their marquee national format streams, placing a direct relay on a HD sub somewhere to help with royalties. Heck, at one point Casey Kasem’s AT40 replay channel was relayed on an iHeart HD sub somewhere in rural Texas and that might still be the case.

The Casey Channel moved from an Austin HD2 to WMMX-HD2 in Dayton. Sister station WCHD "originates" The iHeart Smooth Jazz channel. Of course, the server isn't in Dayton.

 

[kevtronics]

I really wonder how many people use a clock radio. I got my first iPhone 9 years ago, and have used its alarm ever since.

There are plenty of sound sleepers for whom a smartphone isn't loud enough to wake them up, and many others who simply prefer a single-function device that's always there, always works, and never needs recharging or updating.