While walking through an outlet mall, this gem appeared on the background music system, totally out of place for 90% of those listening, but it caught my attention. Look Through My Window -the Mamas and Papas from 1966. It peaked at #24 ... which might not be considered a stiff at the time, but nearly 60 years later it works for this thread.
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And The Stiffs Just Keep On Comin'
- Thread starter Radknowski
- Start date
Let's put it this way: It was SUCH a stiff that the label went back to the previous album for the next single (which was Words Of Love). It was happening at a time of some internal dissent, shall we say. Such as the main songwriter's wife was sleeping with the lead singer. Whoops! Free love! It was the 60s. Great choice, Rusty. We have a whole thread somewhere else about Words Of Love, the unique piano sound, and the first hit sung by Cass Elliott. That song was in fact a hit, but it was in the waning years of a once-legendary band.
I always think of the M&Ps whenever I watch Lakers games and see Lou Adler sitting courtside.
Mentioned earlier in this thread is "Black Pearl" by Sonny Charles and the Checkmates, LTD.
The recording has unapologetic and determined microphone P-popping, which I think is intentional.
A superb example of Phil Spector's sound, they made an excellent recording without significant audio flaws. I think it is particularly noteworthy that the vocal sounds uncompressed and open, yet perfectly situated in the background is the dense string sound. On the final fade Sonny's voice is slightly elevated in the mix, was Phil Spector one of the first to do this?
I assume there is an edit between different takes or mixes at 2:30. But otherwise, flawless.
The recording has unapologetic and determined microphone P-popping, which I think is intentional.
A superb example of Phil Spector's sound, they made an excellent recording without significant audio flaws. I think it is particularly noteworthy that the vocal sounds uncompressed and open, yet perfectly situated in the background is the dense string sound. On the final fade Sonny's voice is slightly elevated in the mix, was Phil Spector one of the first to do this?
I assume there is an edit between different takes or mixes at 2:30. But otherwise, flawless.
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Black Pearl was, and remains a fine tribute song. Peaking at #13 on the Billboard Pop chart and #8 on the Billboard R&B chart, it really doesn't qualify as a stiff for this thread's purposes, but it certainly was a good post.
That the "P" pop is evident is an interesting observation. Is it an actual P-pop or is it the impact of a drum at the same instant that makes the vocal appear to be a pop? Equally interesting, the "P" of Pearl seems well protected throughout most of the song. When this song was released originally, I thought the chorus was mixed far to hot, especially when heard in stereo on WBLK, Buffalo's legacy R&B FM station, which was built by George "Hound Dog" Lorenz. His legacy lives today as WBLK, far different than its original form, is often #1 or #2, Nielsen, Person's 12+.
That the "P" pop is evident is an interesting observation. Is it an actual P-pop or is it the impact of a drum at the same instant that makes the vocal appear to be a pop? Equally interesting, the "P" of Pearl seems well protected throughout most of the song. When this song was released originally, I thought the chorus was mixed far to hot, especially when heard in stereo on WBLK, Buffalo's legacy R&B FM station, which was built by George "Hound Dog" Lorenz. His legacy lives today as WBLK, far different than its original form, is often #1 or #2, Nielsen, Person's 12+.
Two thoughts about the stereo-
1. All bets are off with stereo and the radio. No telling how on-air audio processing might work or was working on an FM Stereo radio station.
I hear an FM station here that jacks up the stereo to the point it changes the mix of the song. That is nothing new, hundreds or thousands of radio stations effectively change the fundamental mix of a recording when they broadcast it.
In the case of this particular station , the interesting part is this sound choice has persisted for years, through different Program Directors. Does this mean (1) strong Chief Engineer presence, (2) the PDs love it, (2) or the PDs are oblivious to it.
Could be a weird feeling for an artist. Thrilled to hear your song on the radio, but unhappy with the way your mix was destroyed.
A friend told me that some producers intentionally keep the stereo down and the essence of the mix centered to minimize the chance of it being ruined downstream.
2. As well known and discussed by many, early stereo versions may not have been mixed by the original producer, or have technical or track sourcing issues. Famously, some hit records had voices or instruments added live when the multi-track tape was played back and mixed to the mono master tape. Since this happened in the moment, it only exists on the mono master tape, and would not have been available to someone doing a stereo mix later. A give away is if you hear something that sounds dramatically different than the rest of the song, such as crisp percussion on an otherwise muddy song. Just one generation for that part, compared to the four track that may have been bounced to one track a few times along the way.
And back then, sometimes much of the "magic" was the EQ and compression/limiting chosen by the disc mastering engineer, for the mono 45. Much of what is/was heard on stereo FM is not the sound of the original 45 mono or 45 stereo pressing. But you knew that...
btw- I think the Hitsville USA set may the the definitive You Tube available sound of the original Motown 45s.
This link should lead you to a poster who kindly uploaded songs from the set.
1. All bets are off with stereo and the radio. No telling how on-air audio processing might work or was working on an FM Stereo radio station.
I hear an FM station here that jacks up the stereo to the point it changes the mix of the song. That is nothing new, hundreds or thousands of radio stations effectively change the fundamental mix of a recording when they broadcast it.
In the case of this particular station , the interesting part is this sound choice has persisted for years, through different Program Directors. Does this mean (1) strong Chief Engineer presence, (2) the PDs love it, (2) or the PDs are oblivious to it.
Could be a weird feeling for an artist. Thrilled to hear your song on the radio, but unhappy with the way your mix was destroyed.
A friend told me that some producers intentionally keep the stereo down and the essence of the mix centered to minimize the chance of it being ruined downstream.
2. As well known and discussed by many, early stereo versions may not have been mixed by the original producer, or have technical or track sourcing issues. Famously, some hit records had voices or instruments added live when the multi-track tape was played back and mixed to the mono master tape. Since this happened in the moment, it only exists on the mono master tape, and would not have been available to someone doing a stereo mix later. A give away is if you hear something that sounds dramatically different than the rest of the song, such as crisp percussion on an otherwise muddy song. Just one generation for that part, compared to the four track that may have been bounced to one track a few times along the way.
And back then, sometimes much of the "magic" was the EQ and compression/limiting chosen by the disc mastering engineer, for the mono 45. Much of what is/was heard on stereo FM is not the sound of the original 45 mono or 45 stereo pressing. But you knew that...
btw- I think the Hitsville USA set may the the definitive You Tube available sound of the original Motown 45s.
This link should lead you to a poster who kindly uploaded songs from the set.
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It’s personally interesting that this thread was resurrected this week. I was thinking of offering my own example of a ”stiff” after coming across it for the first time in a half-century this week. I was going through my Threads feed when someone posted, asking for the creepiest song you ever heard. Intrigued, I clicked that particular thread and began reading the responses. One resonated. It was ”DOA” from Bloodrock, circa 1970. I absolutely hated that song. When it popped up on KB, I’d switch to WYSL. It was creepy. It was depressing. Of course, I went to my Apple Music to play it. Once was enough! Hope to never think of it again! Fortunately, it’s never been a part of any oldies playlist that I’ve ever heard on the radio. An absolute stiff, IMHO!
Sonny Charles and the Checkmates from Ft Wayne, IN, but somehow I don't remember hearing this song on WOWO as a current.
Was WOWO considered Fort Wayne's Top 40 station then, or was it more "chicken rock" like its Westinghouse sister in Boston, WBZ? Maybe the Checkmates' song got played on another, more youth-focused station.
The songwriters had the courage and determination to put the message out front and center, not "in between the lines".
They did the right thing. I was fortunate to live in a town where the top 40 station played all the songs.
They did the right thing. I was fortunate to live in a town where the top 40 station played all the songs.
Concur! When I first heard "DOA" I thought it was a bold, elongated ... and very bad PSA targeting drunk driving, even though it was about an aircraft accident. I didn't like it as a PSA. I thought less of it as a song, such as it might be called. How and why it was added by a number of Top 40 stations at the time is a mystery. Maybe because it was produced by Terry Knight, who also produced Grand Funk Railroad? Novelty song? (Like the comparatively benign, "Last Kiss.") Could be that some money changed hands to get the song on the airwaves? Not like that ever happened before. Both Grand Funk Railroad and Bloodrock were on the Capitol label. One thing for sure, the song never made any PD or consultant's "Safe List."
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I looked it up and it peaked at #36 in the Billboard Hot 100, so you're right about a stiff. What we don't know (because it wasn't charted at the time) was how much FM radio airplay it got.
From what I can see, the song was inspired by an airplane crash, not a car crash.
I know what you mean. In recent years I've come to meet some record promo people from that era. One that comes to mind in fact worked for Capitol at that time. He talked a lot about The Raspberries (since he was also from Cleveland). But never mentioned Bloodrock.
One thing that was happening at that time was the growth of FM rock radio around the country, and the PDs there were actively looking for music that wasn't getting played on AM. There was a lot of southern rock getting played that way, such as the Allman Brothers or Marshall Tucker. Bloodrock was a garage band from Texas, so that may have been the appeal.
That song was trash. Spinal Tap later mocked bands like Bloodrock and were actually more entertaining. Quality FM Album Rock stations had no problem finding far better songs and artists to play back then...
I find it interesting that Eddie Vedder and Pearl Jam resurrected "Last Kiss" in '98 and it became their highest charting single in the Hot 100 in '99, reaching #2. I guess teenage angst never ends.
I was a DJ when DOA came out, we loved the morbidness of it... it was a nice change of pace, like Timothy by the Bouys...
Timothy was more upbeat and clever. Rupert Holmes wrote it. He managed to use the topic of implied cannibalism in a Pop Song! That's quite an achievement...
I’ll always remember Jack Armstrong announcing “Soup’s on,” as he did the intro to “Timothy” on KB! Agreed, tbolt! Still enjoy listening to “Timothy” today. “DOA” was pure crap!
WOWO's music was top 40, even with the news/farm/weather/personalities. We're talking the Beatles, Stones, Doors, Jefferson Airplane, etc. I would think it would have been a candidate for airplay. (WLYV flipped to top 40 I think in 1965). I'm not saying with absolute confidence WOWO didn't play it but I don't remember it (they did play it during their oldies incarnation).
When is a stiff not a stiff? Take Rod Stewart (Please ... bwahhh-hahhh) In late 1975 Warner Brother released Stewart's version of the Isley Brothers classic "This Old Heart of Mine (is weak for you)." In January 1976 Stewart's cover peaked at #83 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart and disappeared in about five weeks. A bonafide Stiff-a-roo for sure.
Then in 1989, Stewart with Ronald Isley covered the song again and produced a slick video. This version peaked at #10. Something to be said for perseverance, timing and the Isley name. Today the Stewart-Isley version pops up from time to time on AC and Classic Hits formats, but the 1966 Motown original is still the best and grittiest version. No stiff by any means, the original peaked at #12 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart in 1966.
Then in 1989, Stewart with Ronald Isley covered the song again and produced a slick video. This version peaked at #10. Something to be said for perseverance, timing and the Isley name. Today the Stewart-Isley version pops up from time to time on AC and Classic Hits formats, but the 1966 Motown original is still the best and grittiest version. No stiff by any means, the original peaked at #12 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart in 1966.
Here's another log to throw on the embers of this fire: "Worse Comes to Worst," 1974, Billy Joel, from the Piano Man album. Even though the album was a success, the song stiffed at #80 on the Billboard chart. BTW, 1974 was 50 years ago. A fifty year old song in 1974 would be from the year 1924. Remember when Billy Joel looked like this?
The Electric Prunes followed up to "I Had Too Much to Dream Last Night" with this gem. "Get Me to the World on Time" stalled at #27 on the Billboard Top 100. It would be the last Prunes song to make out of the lower reaches of the Top 100.