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And the winners are...

T

thebroker

Over the last couple months, I've asked for a lot of advice about the facility upgrade I have planned for the new year. First and foremost, thank you all for the posts and emails. Your advice has been priceless!

Before I place this order and write a check that makes my hand cramp just thinking about it, I thought I'd post a list of the choices I've made, to see if anybody has any final thoughts, and to make sure I'm not making any huge mistakes I'll regret later. So here goes:

2 BE AM-1A Transmitters
2 Omnia 3 AMs
2 Audioarts R55E consoles
2 Gemini CD Players
2 Sine Systems remote site controls
2 Broadcast Tools WRC4 Web-based remote control monitors
3 Conex Flipjack Cellular Interface units
Simian automation with central server and touchscreens

This isn't everything, but it's most of the big things. Any thoughts or final suggestions?
 
Looks like good choices to me. Personally I prefer the Nautel over the BE, but both are excellent transmitters. If I had to question anything, it would be the Gemini CD players. These things are pretty much disposable. If they're going to see heavy use, I'd go with Tascam or Denon. If they won't see much use, the Gemini's are probably fine. You'll be very happy with the Audioarts consoles, and as mentioned in another thread: get the prewire harnesses. Will make the install a lot quicker. Good luck and have fun with the new equipment.

-Chris Hall
Reel Audio Broadcast Engineering (www.reelaudio.net)
RF Specialties of GA (www.rfspec.com)
 
> 2 BE AM-1A Transmitters
> 2 Sine Systems remote site controls

I'm putting one of those up this weekend. Sine is pretty powerful and can do just about anything...but I prefer the simplicity of the Burk setup. AutoPilot never works correctly, but it gets the job done.

> Simian automation with central server and touchscreens

Remember that Simian suggests NOT using a central audio server...you'll get hell if you mention that to tech support. From my own usage, run Cat-6 cable and use gigabit to at least the air/production machines otherwise you'll see delays.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
I have a couple of the BE AM-1A's here in sacramento. Wonderful, efficient, reliable little boxes! One thing to think about, is getting the antenna matching units to go with them. I highly recommend that. I originally bought ours without them, as my common points are all 50-J0, but I found that the additional capacitance, etc of the coax feed over to the coax switch & such caused the rig to be unhappy with the match, so I added the antenna tuning/matching units, and voila, no more issue. They are a very neat little rig. When I installed the first one, I ran it into a test load, jamming a tone into the proc and modulating to +125%, -99%, and it just sat there and did it, blowing only lukewarm air out of the top vents. Class E rules!

Take care and Merry Christmas!

fmnostatic...





> Looks like good choices to me. Personally I prefer the
> Nautel over the BE, but both are excellent transmitters. If
> I had to question anything, it would be the Gemini CD
> players. These things are pretty much disposable. If
> they're going to see heavy use, I'd go with Tascam or Denon.
> If they won't see much use, the Gemini's are probably fine.
> You'll be very happy with the Audioarts consoles, and as
> mentioned in another thread: get the prewire harnesses.
> Will make the install a lot quicker. Good luck and have fun
> with the new equipment.
>
> -Chris Hall
> Reel Audio Broadcast Engineering (www.reelaudio.net)
> RF Specialties of GA (www.rfspec.com)
>
 
If
> I had to question anything, it would be the Gemini CD
> players. These things are pretty much disposable. If
> they're going to see heavy use, I'd go with Tascam or Denon.

I have to ditto the Gemini choice. In a former life, I was a dealer of that kind of stuff and we frequently had huge problems with Gemini products. Worse yet, their factory warranty service was extremely slow (90 days plus, usually). Hopefully that has changed. Maybe it has, but we have Numark and American DJ (American Audio) in our station, and have had no problems with either. The Numark is over three years old the ADJ is about a year and a half old.

When I used to sell this stuff, we had a lot better luck with Stanton, American DJ, Numark and others which are also in the "disposable" price range. I notice that BSW is selling a dual deck Stanton CD player for $199.00. That's hard to beat, and if it craps out, just get another one. Don't even think about fixing it.
 
> I have to ditto the Gemini choice. In a former life, I was
> a dealer of that kind of stuff and we frequently had huge
> problems with Gemini products. Worse yet, their factory
> warranty service was extremely slow (90 days plus, usually).

On the other hand, I used to use Tascam and Sony CD players
in the studios and keep one old Pioneer magazine changer in
the air studio for those odd times when the automation gets
weird.

Note the "used to" part of that.

Production people were constantly complaining that certain
programs they received on CD wouldn't play on either the
Tascam or Sony machines. Honestly, most were burned on
computers for limited ditribution and their quality wasn't
the greatest. In the belief that Gemini players were made
for the club DJ scene, I tried one. Doggone thing will play
anything you throw at it! Has some useful speed features,
too. As a result of the good experience I've been buying
Gemini 601's whenever one of the "name" brands wears out.
Also, bought one for my own light-use personal studio and
have had zero problems in two years. I haven't had a
Gemini fail yet but, when it happens, it'll just get replaced
with a new one. No point in trying to fix most problems with
a Tascam and spare parts from Sony???? LOL!!!!

So much studio stuff has reached the "prosumer" stuff is
more than adequate and so inexpensive that it's worth just
keeping one spare on hand and making fullest possible use
of the dumpster!<P ID="signature">______________
Misanthropy:

The only religion that truly comes from within!</P>
 
Second that suggestion. We have two Simian machines running two satellite stations. All networked together.

With HD storage being dirt cheap, run the Simian & its commercials and its music on one machine. Remember it's data-server, the "sound hound" must update its database every so often in order to add new material. This process consumes both times and CPU resources. Hence you do not want it to be searching other machines through a hard drive in this process. Use the network to transfer in material from production, and to back-up your library on another machine.

If you are going to be self-contained, e.g., music programming originated locally, you can install Simian on another machine that serves as a backup.
Without the dongle, it won't work except in demo mode. But you can easily move the dongle and activate that machine in case of a catastrophic failure of the air machine.
 
AutoPilot never works correctly, but it gets the job done.


What version of Autopilot are you using Sam? I am still on DOS and I tell ya, this thing just chugs along, never missing a beat. I have whined many times about the cost of the Windows version because I would like to try it but the bean counters tell me no everytime I ask. The box I am running the DOS version on it has Win2K Pro loaded on it but doesn't run, I just have it on there in the event I ever get the Windows version.
Burk talked about a demo and you can download the Windows version but they never gave me a demo password and I suck at hacking passwords...LOL
 
I found an upgrade package to firmware 5.4 with the AP2 disc in the bottom of the engineering room (our engineering room is literally a 4 foot high pile of junk). The ARC-16 already had firmware 5.6 in it, so I called up Burk to try and get a serial code for the software. Some firmware chip swapping, more calls to tech support, a mess and a half later....and it's finally working. I have to give Burk credit...they're patient and understanding.

The little speedometer gauges are BS fluff to me. The logs always print screwed up. Without a LOT of thoughtful code, the program won't let you change your limit monitoring highs/lows (even at a software level)...which sucks for an AM. I want software controlled relays instead of this "1 alarm closure for everything" nonsense.

They won't release the protocol they use...no white papers. Not even an API to program my own software interface. That concerns me, considering every other hardware manufacturer in the broadcasting industry can't wait to fax you schematics and give you every detail ever known.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
I have a BE AM1 as a backup and running them at 2 other stations Never gave a problem.
as for the CD players.. Get the Dennon 4400 series. they are work horses and they play MP3's also.
Controller.. I have a sine systems Controller here at the house I play with My ham stuff( Gates BC-1H/ RCA transmitters) I hate the way its Programmed.
But For the stations Im running Burks ARC 16's
and the autoPilotII On a windows 2k machine. as long as you Dont Run VNC on that machine the autopilot works fine.
sorry I used to like BSI software,however Once I went MediaTouch I dont look back.Ive has BSI give me Hickups. at least once a Month. Been Running OMT Media_Touch. Not Once in 3 years so far. Good thing all data is On a main server and backup Server( Just lost a Server 2 days ago drive crash. backup server took right over) gotta love raid systems never missed a beat.
 
> So much studio stuff has reached the "prosumer" stuff is
> more than adequate and so inexpensive that it's worth just
> keeping one spare on hand and making fullest possible use
> of the dumpster!
>
That's quite true. In fact, other than a lot of DOA Gemini's we had the most problems with Denon. It wasn't that they were bad players. It was because the customers who purchased them spent a significant amount of money for them and in turn demanded that they work for more than a couple of years. Most of these went into nightclub. The smoke, spilled drinks and careless DJ's made life hard for any CD player.

Even for a radio station, I'd still recommend a Club DJ type of CD player. It's just that Gemini would not be my first choice. I'm happy to hear that yours works fine. Perhaps they have improved.
 
The reason I went with the cheapo CD players is that they won't see a whole lot of use. All my music will be on hard-disc, so I'll only need the players occasionally.

With the Simians, each individual machine will run separately. The only purpose of the central server is to share common audio like commercials. My engineer has explained three times how he's going to set it up, and I still don't get it. It's sad...I'm younger than he is, and he's much more computer-literate. As long as it works, I don't much care about how it is set up! We are going to locally originate almost all of our programming, except for Fox News, American Top 40, and those sorts of things. I'm going to be so glad to get away from satellite automation! I have a client who runs two stations almost exactly like I plan to run mine, and his Simians work like a charm.

Personally, I WANT Media Touch, but it's much too expensive for me to consider now. I'm negotiating for another station to add to my combo. When that happens and I do the buildout, I'll probably upgrade then. But in the meantime, Simian seems to be the cheapest/easiest option. Media Touch is almost three times the price I've negotiated.
 
> The reason I went with the cheapo CD players is that they
> won't see a whole lot of use. All my music will be on
> hard-disc, so I'll only need the players occasionally.
>
> With the Simians, each individual machine will run
> separately. The only purpose of the central server is to
> share common audio like commercials. My engineer has
> explained three times how he's going to set it up, and I
> still don't get it. It's sad...I'm younger than he is, and
> he's much more computer-literate. As long as it works, I
> don't much care about how it is set up! We are going to
> locally originate almost all of our programming, except for
> Fox News, American Top 40, and those sorts of things. I'm
> going to be so glad to get away from satellite automation! I
> have a client who runs two stations almost exactly like I
> plan to run mine, and his Simians work like a charm.
>
> Personally, I WANT Media Touch, but it's much too expensive
> for me to consider now. I'm negotiating for another station
> to add to my combo. When that happens and I do the buildout,
> I'll probably upgrade then. But in the meantime, Simian
> seems to be the cheapest/easiest option. Media Touch is
> almost three times the price I've negotiated.
>

I guess Mediatouch is not bargaining much. They used to. We're running Version 2.2.1 and it is buggy as all get up, but given our past customer service experience with OMT, we're not interesting in paying 2k for "support" or purchasing upgrades to fix problems they created. We'd much rather save and budget for Prophet.
 
For something that is going to sit in the rack until you want to play a cd in cue, the Gemini's will probably be fine. It is getting difficult to find single-play CD machines these days.

I dunno about putting the spots on the server. I think you will find that Simian won't like it. With large hard drives super cheap, it's just as easy to send the same spot to three different local drives via the network once it is produced or dubbed--err, transferred from that MP3 e-mail attachment ;-)

After all, how many minutes of spots are you going to have on-air at any given time? I just saw an ad for a Compaq with 1 gb RAM and a 220 GB hd for $679. At 10 mb per stereo minute for 44 wav, that's going to take a long time to fill up a 220 GB drive!

As to service, one advantage with Simian is it's user's forum. They would love it if you sign up for another year of service after your first free year expires. But, if you are patient, often you can find answers to most questions within a day or two after posting on their forum.
 
> I guess Mediatouch is not bargaining much. They used to.
> We're running Version 2.2.1 and it is buggy as all get up,
> but given our past customer service experience with OMT,
> we're not interesting in paying 2k for "support" or
> purchasing upgrades to fix problems they created. We'd much
> rather save and budget for Prophet.


Another HUGE problem I had with MediaTouch is the price for their support and updates package. A not-so-small fortune, every year, just for the privilege of them helping you use their stuff. And, unless you pay for the super-duper package, you only have access to tech support during certain hours, and via a non-toll-free number. No thanks. I just can't swallow paying as much in a year for JUST TECH SUPPORT as I can pay for an entire Simian system with more memory than I'll ever use.
 
>
> I dunno about putting the spots on the server. I think you
> will find that Simian won't like it. With large hard drives
> super cheap, it's just as easy to send the same spot to
> three different local drives via the network once it is
> produced or dubbed--err, transferred from that MP3 e-mail
> attachment ;-)

I think its best with simian to store the audio and spots on a Local HD (Simian's tech support will come close to screaming at you if you dont)

second, by having a copy on your air machine and abackup copy elsewhere, its pretty easy to move the hardware USB dongle over incase of a failure on the main system

While simian may not have as cute to pretty of an interface as some of the more pricey automation systems, with a little work and time simian can do about anything though, which is a great deal for the price it costs.

<P ID="signature">______________
Program Director/Music Director
X Music Online
The X
Today's Best Music
http://www.xmusiconline.com/</P>
 
> > I guess Mediatouch is not bargaining much. They used to.
> > We're running Version 2.2.1 and it is buggy as all get up,
>
> > but given our past customer service experience with OMT,
> > we're not interesting in paying 2k for "support" or
> > purchasing upgrades to fix problems they created. We'd
> much
> > rather save and budget for Prophet.
>
>
> Another HUGE problem I had with MediaTouch is the price for
> their support and updates package. A not-so-small fortune,
> every year, just for the privilege of them helping you use
> their stuff. And, unless you pay for the super-duper
> package, you only have access to tech support during certain
> hours, and via a non-toll-free number. No thanks. I just
> can't swallow paying as much in a year for JUST TECH SUPPORT
> as I can pay for an entire Simian system with more memory
> than I'll ever use.


As a less-than enthusiastic Mediatouch customer, my experience is that they have been less than helpful once we told them that we would install the system ourselves, rather than paying an exorbitant amount to have someone do it for us. None of these systems are complicated to instally and configure if you are computer savvy and have the proper documentation -- which, BTW, OMT will not give you.
 
(Changes)

> 2 Omnia 3 AMs (Optimod 9200)

> 2 Gemini CD Players (ANYTHING but Gemini. These will be dead within 5 months)

Also, stay away from the Marantz players that are a little more. They are a bitch to use and aren't that much better

I am interested in the Tascam slot loader that BSW has for approx $450
 
GEMINI... awful

> Looks like good choices to me. Personally I prefer the
> Nautel over the BE, but both are excellent transmitters. If
> I had to question anything, it would be the Gemini CD
> players. These things are pretty much disposable. If
> they're going to see heavy use, I'd go with Tascam or Denon.
> If they won't see much use, the Gemini's are probably fine.
> You'll be very happy with the Audioarts consoles, and as
> mentioned in another thread: get the prewire harnesses.
> Will make the install a lot quicker. Good luck and have fun
> with the new equipment.
>
> -Chris Hall
> Reel Audio Broadcast Engineering (www.reelaudio.net)
> RF Specialties of GA (www.rfspec.com)
>

Gemini's are HORRIFIC! I have 6 here at an educational that are less than 18 months old. All 6 have been in and out of service more times than you can imagine. I can see one player, but ALL SIX (and these are NOT CD-R's, these are store-purchased and record company promo discs that are in good to excellent condition).

An engineer at another local had two in the production studio. They all show the same problems

1) The start to have tracking problems (No Disc, or they just sit there clicking and spinning)

2) When it fails, the tray ejects with the disc still spinning on the tray

WHEN they do track, they seem to be OK, but it's GETTING the to track,
 
> So much studio stuff has reached the "prosumer" stuff is
> more than adequate and so inexpensive that it's worth just
> keeping one spare on hand and making fullest possible use
> of the dumpster!

As anyone tried Stanton, one of the other low-cost players?
 
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