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Another Public Radio Station Drops Music

  • Thread starter fred flintstone
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fred flintstone

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All Access:
Connecticut Public Radio Drops Classical For More News-TalkCONNECTICUT PUBLIC RADIO's noncommercial WNPR (consisting of WPKT/MERIDEN-HARTFORD-NEW HAVEN, WNPR/NORWICH-NEW LONDON, WEDW/STAMFORD, and WRLI/SOUTHAMPTON, LONG ISLAND, NY) is joining the growing list of NPR affiliates dropping most music programming to concentrate on news and talk programming.The station is dropping its Classical programs from weekdays, replaced by NPR talk programming and a new daily hour-long 9a ET talk show "WHERE WE LIVE," but will retain its weekend broadcasts of the METROPOLITAN OPERA and other Classical and opera shows.
The surprise is not that music on public radio is dying - but that it is taking it so long to die. What is the matter with some stations that insist on holding on to music. Music listeners don't pledge - never did. And lovers of classical music and jazz have more and better options to hear their music than terrestrial radio. The on unique feature public radio has to offer is news and public affairs programming. That is its strength. Station managers around the country are stupid not to go with it.
 
I totally agree that the primary format public radio should provide is news/talk, but I think when multiple signals are available, it's wonderful to offer listeners a choice of music formats as well. I think Minnesota Public Radio is a great example of this - they offer News/Talk and Classical statewide, and The Current in two markets so far.
 
fred flintstone said:
All Access:
Connecticut Public Radio Drops Classical For More News-TalkCONNECTICUT PUBLIC RADIO's noncommercial WNPR (consisting of WPKT/MERIDEN-HARTFORD-NEW HAVEN, WNPR/NORWICH-NEW LONDON, WEDW/STAMFORD, and WRLI/SOUTHAMPTON, LONG ISLAND, NY) is joining the growing list of NPR affiliates dropping most music programming to concentrate on news and talk programming.The station is dropping its Classical programs from weekdays, replaced by NPR talk programming and a new daily hour-long 9a ET talk show "WHERE WE LIVE," but will retain its weekend broadcasts of the METROPOLITAN OPERA and other Classical and opera shows.
The surprise is not that music on public radio is dying - but that it is taking it so long to die. What is the matter with some stations that insist on holding on to music. Music listeners don't pledge - never did. And lovers of classical music and jazz have more and better options to hear their music than terrestrial radio. The on unique feature public radio has to offer is news and public affairs programming. That is its strength. Station managers around the country are stupid not to go with it.
But they sure can scream real loud, as is happening in Chicago right now with WBEZ's decision to drop music programming (mostly jazz) next year and make the repeaters WBEW/WBEQ a pubaffairs format aimed at younger demos (instead of an all-music station, as originally announced). It hasn't helped matters that the station's been very vague on what the new format at BEW/BEQ will exactly consist of (the descriptions they've made sound like a cross between the Current cable channel, public access and "TAL"). Of course, the jazz buffs claim that they do pledge and that they want local artists and local DJs programming the music, not automated stations like satellite and Internet. But as long as the majority of listeners get their "ME" in the morning, "ATC" in the afternoon and Click and Clack/"Wait, Wait..."/Feldman/Glass/Kellior (or any combination of the preceding) on Saturdays, they won't be complaining.
 
Um... Excuse me? Music oriented public radio is not dying. Far from it. Look at KEXP in Seattle, WXPN in Philly, The Current in Minneapolis. KCRW in LA. Maybe what we are seeing is that some music formats are no longer viable. It's a new day...
 
These are markets with multiple public radio outlets.

In a market with an established news-talk public radio station, it may not make sense for a competitor (or co-owned station) to change formats now - although it has happened (Washington has dueling news-talk stations).

Not only do music listeners not pledge at the same rates as news-talk listeners, they are leaving and going to new media (satellite radio, Internet, mp3) for music. Music formats on public radio are becoming less viable all the time but politics - internal and external - still govern much public radio programming decision making. There will still be squeaky wheels demanding grease. So some stations will be slow to respond to the changing environment.
 
And that assertion that "music listeners don't pledge" is ridiculous. Most of KCRW's pledges COME from the music shows. Nic Harcourt's daily "Morning Becomes Eclectic" can clear $25,000 in ONE SHOW.
 
Doctah said:
And that assertion that "music listeners don't pledge" is ridiculous. Most of KCRW's pledges COME from the music shows. Nic Harcourt's daily "Morning Becomes Eclectic" can clear $25,000 in ONE SHOW.

No, it's not. The figures I've seen show news-talk listeners pledge at a rate three times that of music listeners.
 
Perhaps your numbers are looking at music as a whole. Certainly Classical and Jazz may atrtract more passive listeners less likely to pledge $$. But stations with tastemaking music formats like EXP and CRW build a younger very loyal audience who vew station programing as essential componenty to their lifestyle.
 
Public Radio Must Be More Local

ThinLizzyRocks said:
Perhaps your numbers are looking at music as a whole. Certainly Classical and Jazz may atrtract more passive listeners less likely to pledge $$. But stations with tastemaking music formats like EXP and CRW build a younger very loyal audience who vew station programing as essential componenty to their lifestyle.

Public radio walks a fine line. They need to pay bills. And they are supposed to offer quality programming that commercial broadcasting may not support. Originally that meant fine arts, classical or jazz, as well as educational or public affairs programs. Station schedules were all local and a hodge-podge of program types. In 1971, stations became inter-connected for the the first time (and most did current news programming for the first time) when NPR launched with ATC; adding ME eight years later (the two tent-poles of many public radio stations).

Public radio has become big business in a way the authors of the Cargnegie Report could not have foreseen. Stations are expected to be self-supporting, often expected to show surpluses (a code word for "profits"). Stations hire high salaried execs, build lavish buildings on prime real estate, get state of the art equipment and even have money left over to buy or establish for-profit businesses.

Now some stations are embracing "commercial" or "pop music" formats. They get more listeners - maybe more pledges, sure. But is that the kind of thing public radio SHOULD be doing in the first place? What's next? The kind of confrontational, more-heat-than-light political talk which now dominates commercial talk radio and cable "news channels?" That would probably bring in more bucks, too.

Further, public radio embracing ANY music format (except possibly Urban and Hispanic formats) is short-sighted. The educated, upscale audience that has been public radio's bread and butter since Day 1 is increasingly going to satellite radio, the Internet or mp3 players for music. New technology is just better at providing music than radio - any radio, commercial or non-commercial. In time, even the down-market, late-adopter segments will leave music radio.

If public radio is to survive in the long-term it has (1) to move to Talk formats and (2) Become more local. Satellite radio can compete with national programming. It is likely that sooner or later NPR, PRI and APM will make their programs available to either or both satellite providers on an equal basis with terrestrial public radio stations (money talks). Too many public radio stations (not all - exceptions noted), including major market stations, have taken the easy way out becoming virtually turnkey operations with wall-to-wall satellite delivered programs. Yes, there are a lot of fine public radio programs out there and few of them get cleared in close to every market. There is more programming available than station time slots available. That's good for stations and for listeners. Even so, stations need to carry less of it to accommodate more local programming - and spend money to produce local programming (instead of paying bonuses to suits and buying new production toys).
 
Re: Public Radio Must Be More Local

fred flintstone said:
Now some stations are embracing "commercial" or "pop music" formats. They get more listeners - maybe more pledges, sure. But is that the kind of thing public radio SHOULD be doing in the first place? What's next?

The argument is that the pop music they're playing is not being played on commercial radio. The pop and rock pie has been pretty much balkanized over the years and there are a number of artists who are relatively uncommercial that still have a cult audience--an audience as big or bigger than the classical or jazz audiences and definitely bigger than the folk music audience--and let's not forget that they're younger than the traditional public radio music audiences. Decisively younger.

If you compare XPN Philadelphia's playlist with the other pop and rock stations in Philly, there's very little duplication. By the standard of "doing what the other guys aren't," AAA or indie rock can fit the public radio mission.
 
Re: Public Radio Must Be More Local

Mark Jeffries said:
If you compare XPN Philadelphia's playlist with the other pop and rock stations in Philly, there's very little duplication. By the standard of "doing what the other guys aren't," AAA or indie rock can fit the public radio mission.

WXPN is playing music dropped when a commercial station changes format.

It is regrettable that a public radio station, let alone a station owned and operated by an Ivy League university, should play such trash - especially when the market lacks full time classical or jazz public radio stations. The university operates a commercial format coupled with a money-making entertainment venue. On top of being the biggest landlord in West Philadelphia and using city services while not paying the taxes residents and other businesses pay. This is a commercial station with a commercial format. To call it public radio is a sham. It is like a station dropping Morning Edition to carry Howard Stern. Apparently nobody at XPN ever heard of "leges sine moribus vanae."
 
KHPR in Honolulu (with simulcast on KKUA on Maui and KANO in Hilo) just finished the fall pledge drive at about $750K in 8 days.

They are all classical and fine arts, and NPR news in the morning and afternoon. The fund drive number increases every year, and the days required to raise the $$ shrink. So far, the format is working just fine for them. But then again, it is Hawai`i, so who knows...
 
Re: Public Radio Must Be More Local

fred flintstone said:
This is a commercial station with a commercial format. To call it public radio is a sham. It is like a station dropping Morning Edition to carry Howard Stern. Apparently nobody at XPN ever heard of "leges sine moribus vanae."

OK, help me out with the Latin. "Without laws, death comes." ? Give me the translation, counselor. It's been a long time since I had to translate Caesar and Cicero in high school, but the language still intrigues the hell outta me. Thanks.

And by the way, Buffalo has three fairly well supported public sttaions that are diverse and genuinely public: the University at buffalo's WBFO-FM 88.7; WNED-AM 970 (5kW) which is news-talk and co-owned WNED-FM 94.5 (100kW) which is 100% classical.[/Mike]
 
(Yeah, this is a slow board, isn't it)? Still...

Mark Jeffries says "If you compare XPN Philadelphia's playlist with the other pop and rock stations in Philly, there's very little duplication. By the standard of "doing what the other guys aren't," AAA or indie rock can fit the public radio mission."

That's true. But what happens to XPN when a commercial station in Philly duplicates the format? Do they bail? Or do they stay and "fight it out?"

Historically--and we'll cite Classical & Jazz as examples--the public station gets defensive and dives into a turf war. After a 30-year battle with WGMS, WETA in DC finally ceded Classical to Bonneville (who then put it on rimshot signals), choosing instead to duplicate most of WAMU's news-talk programming. Jeez.

Fred Flintstone gets it. Most public radio programmers and managers (and board members) don't.
 
Re: Public Radio Must Be More Local

fred flintstone said:
Stations hire high salaried execs, build lavish buildings on prime real estate, get state of the art equipment and even have money left over to buy or establish for-profit businesses.

Unfortunately a number of public broadcasting outlets have become a haven for highly-paid bureaucrats who collect more in salaries and benefits than the president of the United States. Add to that the number of ‘vice presidents’ and department heads at these operations and you are talking serious money.
I wonder if anyone has ever done a study to determine just how many pledge drives does it take in order just to pay those making huge salaries. If the general public were aware of just how much their contributions went to pay for a station CEO’s new car, and other perks, if they would be so willing to shell out a few hundred dollars so they can get a coffee cup in return.
 
My own thoughts are that with a growing number of commercial radio stations either cutting back on local news, or outsourcing it, more listeners are tuning to public radio to hear news. That is why some public stations have decided to drop their music formats for news. I know that when I worked in public radio there were numerous discussions about switching the classical format from the FM to AM, and having the AM move its news programming over to FM because of the expanded coverage area the FM had.
 
redneckriviera said:
(Yeah, this is a slow board, isn't it)? Still...

Mark Jeffries says "If you compare XPN Philadelphia's playlist with the other pop and rock stations in Philly, there's very little duplication. By the standard of "doing what the other guys aren't," AAA or indie rock can fit the public radio mission."

That's true. But what happens to XPN when a commercial station in Philly duplicates the format? Do they bail? Or do they stay and "fight it out?"

Historically--and we'll cite Classical & Jazz as examples--the public station gets defensive and dives into a turf war. After a 30-year battle with WGMS, WETA in DC finally ceded Classical to Bonneville (who then put it on rimshot signals), choosing instead to duplicate most of WAMU's news-talk programming. Jeez. ...

I might suggest you have to some degree answered your own question. Does the public station count on the commercial station doing a proper job with their format? WETA ceded classical to WGMS - which promptly moved it to rimshot signals, and now rumor has it they're going to drop it altogether. Does WXPN cede AAA to (hypothetical) WCAU-FM, only to see WCAU flip to Mexican oldies six months later? Do they cede AAA with knowledgable DJs, information about the music, and local artists to (hypothetical) WPTZ that stuffs a few dozen CDs picked from a sales chart on the Internet into a computer system with a few voice tracks? Don't know that I'd even consider that the same format.

Certainly the news/talk that public stations are running is not the same news/talk that's running on commercial outlets. Not even Air America. WLAC (CC news/talk station) is not a suitable replacement for WPLN (NPR).

Would Cumulus (/whoever) try a NPR-style news/talk format if they knew it wouldn't have to compete with NPR? It's certainly possible. But I doubt it, and sure don't want to risk losing WPLN to find out...
 
Wouldn't this be an outstanding opportunity for WETA to flip back to Classical? Talk about having tens of thousands of extremely happy listerners & members! And don't you think those members would dig deep, deep into their pockets to show their appreciation? Something akin to not missing the water til the well runs dry? They'd be flooded with accolades and cash! I'm a longtime member of WETA and actually like the job they've done as an all-newser, but I'd certainly understand if they switched horses again upon the demise of WGMS. It just makes too much sense.

My general concern with public broadcasting centers on two issues. First is the now-forgotten rationale for even creating public broadcasting in the first place: to address programming not considered viable by commercial media. It was a critical issue in the mid-sixties and may even be more critical today--as public radio, in particular, has settled into formats guaranteed to generate money (membership/underwriting). That's commercial broadcasting, isn't it? And second--as noted by someone else above--is the (related) morphing of public broadcast organizations into mutual aid societies; i.e., outfits existing mostly to pad the bank accounts of the insiders. With all due respect to the many wonderfully talented people hauling down huge incomes and outlandish perks in public broadcasting... that money should be going into programming and/or program delivery (facilities, distribution) instead. To those who say pubcasters must pay megasalaries to compete with the commercial world, let them go to the commercial world--and see what it's really like. Pay the price for your bravado. Let the market decide what you're really worth!
 
The WETA board has voted to flip back to classical IF it is dropped by WGMS. When WETA and WGMS were both classical, the format drew a meaty ten share in DC. However, Dan Snyder is backing off his plans to buy WGMS (after Bonneville already went through the process of firing its GMS sales staff, ruining lives to make the station more attractive to Snyder).

As far as the AAA debate, the commercial format and the non-comm format are so far apart that many trades differentiate the stations entirely. If you have a big group like CC testing the music to the nth degree, you inevitabley end up with a luke cold version of the format, which relies heavily on small labels and independent artists.
 
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