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Another Salary Question

A

AndrewLawson

Guest
An earlier thread was dedicated to the question of salaries of the highest paid performers, mostly morning shows, in Buffalo and Rochester radio.

With the recent layoffs in Buffalo radio, what are the average salaries of midday, afternoon and night jocks?

What is the pay scale for weekend and part time jocks? I presume they are paid at an hourly rate?
 
AndrewLawson said:
An earlier thread was dedicated to the question of salaries of the highest paid performers, mostly morning shows, in Buffalo and Rochester radio.

With the recent layoffs in Buffalo radio, what are the average salaries of midday, afternoon and night jocks?

What is the pay scale for weekend and part time jocks? I presume they are paid at an hourly rate?

Ok I will take a crack at this question, although I've been out of the business full-time for a few years, so my guess most likely is way off.

Part-timers and casual employees I would get get between 9 to 11 dollars an hour. Some places could pay just minimum wage ($7.50 an hour).

Tougher to answer the question about the salaries for midday, afternoon and night jocks.

I'm guessing middays might pull down around 35 to 40K; Afternoons 40-60K and overnights between 30-40K. That's commercial radio. Public radio would pay less, but I believe that their benefits are better that most commercial stations.

Again I am just giving you my estimated guess. Perhaps someone currently working in the business could give you a more accurate answer.
 
Mark_Giardina said:
Part-timers and casual employees I would get get between 9 to 11 dollars an hour. Some places could pay just minimum wage ($7.50 an hour).

Tougher to answer the question about the salaries for midday, afternoon and night jocks.

I'm guessing middays might pull down around 35 to 40K; Afternoons 40-60K and overnights between 30-40K. That's commercial radio. Public radio would pay less, but I believe that their benefits are better that most commercial stations.

In my experience, you're right on the part timers... especially the fact that some places could just pay minimum wage.

For my own part, I'd love to be in any of those full-time brackets... :(
 
scooterodell said:
For my own part, I'd love to be in any of those full-time brackets... :(
Then do what I did; go work for the government. However I must point out that while I made less money during my career in radio, I did love the profession and still do. But love doesn't pay the bills or make one able to retire when they reach a certain age.
 
I agree I know the part time is right on but the full time figures sound high to me. By the way there aren't very many full time night positions anymore and even fewer (almost none) overnight. A major station where I live has an all part-time airstaff. I think that's a trend that's coming.
 
Mike Sheridan said:
I agree I know the part time is right on but the full time figures sound high to me. By the way there aren't very many full time night positions anymore and even fewer (almost none) overnight. A major station where I live has an all part-time airstaff. I think that's a trend that's coming.

When I was "guessing" about full time salaries, I thought I might be going a bit high, especially for overnights.

As for your statement about part-time staff, I think that you're on target. It appears that in order to save on both salaries and especially benefits, many stations are going the route of having part-timers fill in when necessary.
 
Mark_Giardina said:
Mike Sheridan said:
I agree I know the part time is right on but the full time figures sound high to me. By the way there aren't very many full time night positions anymore and even fewer (almost none) overnight. A major station where I live has an all part-time airstaff. I think that's a trend that's coming.

When I was "guessing" about full time salaries, I thought I might be going a bit high, especially for overnights.

As for your statement about part-time staff, I think that you're on target. It appears that in order to save on both salaries and especially benefits, many stations are going the route of having part-timers fill in when necessary.

Mark, sad to say some stations don't even bother voice tracking overnights. They sure have commercials though.

You know when these stations need someone to come in during bad weather or other emergency I sure hope they can find a part-timer who cares enough to come in. Actually on second thought the computer can take over....oooh what if the computer crashes? Hey a full timer might come in handy then.
 
When did full time radio become a part time job? How can anyone expect to put on entertaining radio when they fail to attract the best with ridiculously low salaries (in most cases) and so much voice-tracking. No wonder listenership is at all time lows. But that's ok, blame the new media and the ipod not the lower standards of the once mighty business.
 
"When did full time radio become a part time job? How can anyone expect to put on entertaining radio when they fail to attract the best with ridiculously low salaries (in most cases) and so much voice-tracking. No wonder listenership is at all time lows. But that's ok, blame the new media and the ipod not the lower standards of the once mighty business."

Why do you think people went out and got iPods in the first place?

Radio is inherently a far more user-friendly medium, and usually, the most user-friendly approach to anything wins, whether it's driving, browsing the print media, or looking for audio entertainment. Radio should rule. But it doesn't any more, especially with under-25 listeners who should be the medium's future.

People, especially younger people but a growing number of 25-54s as well, go out of their way NOT to listen to radio because they find today's programming-on-the-cheap approach makes radio either boring or annoying, and often lifeless and lacking in informational or entertainment value beyond that of a jukebox with commercial interruptions built in. It takes a lot of time and effort to download music and program an iPod, and you get no informational or entertainment value added...but you don't get that anymore from a lot of radio either. And with your iPod you don't have to listen to commercials and don't have to worry that you'll hear a song you don't like, because you programmed it from the get-go.

So people make an effort to build a personal alternative to radio even though radio's far easier to use, because radio is really turning them off.

We can still recapture a lot of those listeners if we bring real entertainment and information value added back to the programming 24/7, marrying the ease of use with a really good reason to listen. But if we don't act fast, a generation of listeners will be lost just at the moment we need them most. Radio this year is having the biggest revenue meltdown in 54 years, and that correlates directly to a decline in radio use among under-55 listeners. If radio had simply found a way to hold the audience it started the decade with, and built normally according to historical patterns, it would be grabbing revenue away from costlier media like newspapers and TV just like it did during the 1958, 1960, 1974, 1981, 1990 and 2001 recessions. Radio groups wouldn't be struggling to keep their share prices above $1.00 (and failing), they'd be rolling in revenue and profit at TV's and print's expense. The fact that radio is not taking advantage of its inherent cost advantages over other media this time, is directly due to the fact that it's turning people off and grabbing a smaller slice of the total population than it has at any point since the first TV boom of 1950-55. Radio's decline isn't the economy's fault...this time it's our own fault. Will we figure it out in time to save our business? It isn't too late, but the clock's ticking and so far, most stations are going the wrong way...
 
I have an interesting story to share about young people and radio. I was delivering a workshop during media day at a local college recently and was asked to address the topic -- "Radio: News, Sports and Music." The workshop was designed for high school students who participate in their own school media. I was expecting maybe three or four students would attend my workshop. Afterall, there were many more exciting topics at other workshops taking place at the same time, including some dealing with the "new" media. To my surprise, the kids starting coming in, and coming in and coming in. It was standing room only. I was amazed. And when I started to point out that young people seem to be more interested in their iPods, one young lady spoke up and defended radio. She said she likes it when one of her favorite songs pops up. She knows what's on her iPod, but she never knows what the radio will play next. A lot of the guys in the room like sports radio. You really can't get breaking sports on your iPod. So, I left that workshop just a bit more hopeful about the future. I'm not making any conclusions here. I realize that for the most part radio is not embraced by today's 20-somethings like we embraced it when we were their age. But at least I got to talk with a group of 25 high school kids who still think radio is kinda cool!
 
Philip_Airtime said:
I have an interesting story to share about young people and radio. I was delivering a workshop during media day at a local college recently and was asked to address the topic -- "Radio: News, Sports and Music." The workshop was designed for high school students who participate in their own school media. I was expecting maybe three or four students would attend my workshop. Afterall, there were many more exciting topics at other workshops taking place at the same time, including some dealing with the "new" media. To my surprise, the kids starting coming in, and coming in and coming in. It was standing room only. I was amazed. And when I started to point out that young people seem to be more interested in their iPods, one young lady spoke up and defended radio. She said she likes it when one of her favorite songs pops up. She knows what's on her iPod, but she never knows what the radio will play next. A lot of the guys in the room like sports radio. You really can't get breaking sports on your iPod. So, I left that workshop just a bit more hopeful about the future. I'm not making any conclusions here. I realize that for the most part radio is not embraced by today's 20-somethings like we embraced it when we were their age. But at least I got to talk with a group of 25 high school kids who still think radio is kinda cool!

Maybe there is hope for radio after all. Unless the suits and consultants screw it up even more than it already is.
 

Maybe there is hope for radio after all. Unless the suits and consultants screw it up even more than it already is.

[/quote]

Network radio is coming back. If you read the headlines here, stations are now looking at more syndication of morning drive shows. Other dayparts that do not have a special niche probably will not be around very long. They will likely be voicetracked from somewhere else. Most sports stations rely heavily on Fox Sports and ESPN.

So it's great the kids are interested in radio, as long as they don't want to work in radio. The openings for talent are fading fast!
 
Bob 1370 I think you summed it up well. You are one of the few people in radio who understands and admits there is something wrong and that radio is indeed going in the wrong direction.

I will also give part of the blame to the listener who says there is too much talk on music stations. I think radio today tends to program for the passive rather than active radio listener. They do this because there are more passive listeners, we know this, but radio has lost it's fan base.

Now more than ever with the advent of CD's, iPods and the internet it's important for music radio stations to do more than just play the hits. There needs to be value added content.
 
Re: Tell Us How You REALLY Feel...

SirRoxalot said:
Maybe some of you would like to chime in on this discussion...

No thanks! You said it, but they don't get it. Been there, done that, It's the ostrich factor. Radio is great! What could be wrong? ::)
 
This week I heard a commentary, I think on NPR, to the effect that the swollen salaries, bonuses and stock options of Wall Street executives were what set a “me-too” pattern for corporate execs in general. Even before the recent meltdown, these rewards were draining the lifeblood out the Main Street economy.

By the way there aren't very many full time night positions anymore and even fewer (almost none) overnight. A major station where I live has an all part-time airstaff.

As general economy goes, so goes radio. That sucking sound is of grunt-level salaries being undermined to help radio execs pay inflated rewards not only to themselves but also to “stars” like Limbaugh, Hannity and Savage, who have been so staunchly defended elsewhere on this board. In a way, I could understand these bloated contracts in good times, but why on earth would any radio execs even think of putting their names to them when the industry's fortunes are in the tank?

Radio is inherently a far more user-friendly medium, and usually, the most user-friendly approach to anything wins, whether it's driving, browsing the print media, or looking for audio entertainment. Radio should rule.

WiFi radio, despite being in its infancy, is already quite user-friendly and will certainly become more so. That’s exactly why I would bet on it being the wave of the future once WiFi service becomes the norm in automobiles. It will be just a part of the inevitable shakeout in radio.
 
Re: Tell Us How You REALLY Feel...

SirRoxalot said:
Maybe some of you would like to chime in on this discussion...

Are you kidding me? The only thing that's missing from that board-brawl is Napalm. Word is the mods are gonna put a cage around that thread to protect the spectators. And BTW, it's been a very informative thread and you seem to be doing quite well.
 
listener-in said:
This week I heard a commentary, I think on NPR, to the effect that the swollen salaries, bonuses and stock options of Wall Street executives were what set a “me-too” pattern for corporate execs in general. Even before the recent meltdown, these rewards were draining the lifeblood out the Main Street economy.

There's plenty of blame to go around. It's not just corporate execs that are abandoning Main St. People go on & on about how sad it is that local businesses are failing, yet where do they shop? Walmart, Lowes, etc. If Joe's Hardware & Tux Rental was such a great store, why didn't you shop there? It's like those who get their panties all in a twist about companies offshoring jobs, yet there's a Toyota sitting in the driveway. Practice what you preach. If you want your local station to "be there" in times of need (ie-snow emergencies, big breaking news stories, etc.) then listen to them and patronize their advertisers all the time.

As general economy goes, so goes radio. That sucking sound is of grunt-level salaries being undermined to help radio execs pay inflated rewards not only to themselves but also to “stars” like Limbaugh, Hannity and Savage, who have been so staunchly defended elsewhere on this board. In a way, I could understand these bloated contracts in good times, but why on earth would any radio execs even think of putting their names to them when the industry's fortunes are in the tank?

A contract is a contract. If Rush (for example) had the good sense to sign a 5 year contract for a certain figure, then he's entitled to it. If Premiere doesn't think he's still worth it at the end of the term, then that's between them and him. I'm sure the marquee acts bring in enough revenue to more than justify their paychecks. 2nd & 3rd tier talent, maybe not.

Times change. Much as the network radio of the 30s & 40s gave way to the local dj, it looks like the pendulum is swinging back. If the only way that radio is to survive is thru the likes of Ryan Seacrest, John Tesh, etc. then so be it. Lots of people find them entertaining. You may not be one of them, and neither am I but life goes on. An era is ending.

WiFi radio, despite being in its infancy, is already quite user-friendly and will certainly become more so. That’s exactly why I would bet on it being the wave of the future once WiFi service becomes the norm in automobiles. It will be just a part of the inevitable shakeout in radio.

WiFi radio is a long way off, don't kid yourself. How long have cellphones been around? Still plenty of dropped calls, "can you hear me now?", etc. Get outside of major cities and their suburbs and the likelihood of this happening anytime soon get pretty remote. Remember the telcom companies are just as affected by the economy as everyone else. Adding infastructure costs $$$, and there's not much floating around these days.
It probably will happen someday (or maybe something completely new will supersede it), but not anytime soon.

The big "if" here is finding a way to make it pay. No one is going to invest millions without a way to make a return on it. I personally haven't found much compelling online content, certainly nothing I'd be willing to pay for.
 
"WiFi radio, despite being in its infancy, is already quite user-friendly and will certainly become more so. That’s exactly why I would bet on it being the wave of the future once WiFi service becomes the norm in automobiles. It will be just a part of the inevitable shakeout in radio."

WiFi is indeed years away from even remotely approaching the coverage footprint and installed receiver base of conventional radio, or even HD digital radio. However, when it does reach that critical mass of coverage, it then becomes...guess what? Another band of...RADIO! Just like AM, FM and now HD.

So the same rules apply.

Content is king.

Provide compelling value-added, well above and beyond the juke box with commercials that too much radio has become, and it won't matter what delivery medium you use--if you combine strong programming with full-market signal coverage, you have a legitimate chance to win. ABC and CBS have been doing surveys for 35 years, ever since it looked like FM would supplant AM back in the 1970s, and found out repeatedly that the frequency band, the audio quality (as long as it was reasonably clear and listenable), or even the mono vs. stereo question, mattered less to listeners of all demographics than the quality of the programming being broadcast.

No reason to believe things are different now. A compelling programming format and personality lineup can still make it on AM, FM, HD, WiFi, or any combination of the above. A lousy, poorly executed or (as we often find) dull and lifeless presentation will get you ratings as mediocre as what you're broadcasting, with financials to match, even if you're using cutting-edge technology to deliver it.

It's not rocket science.

Why doesn't anyone in most of the broadcasting group front offices get it?

If someone has a sudden apocalyptic vision and realizes well-programmed radio stations with real, likable and live human voices at the forefront pull listeners to them like a magnet pulls steel, they'll be able to make a bundle from all the ads they sell to clients tired of paying inflated spot rates to TV stations and newspapers, and exorbitant CPMs to online media, in these tough times.
 
WiFi is indeed years away from even remotely approaching the coverage footprint and installed receiver base of conventional radio, or even HD digital radio. However, when it does reach that critical mass of coverage, it then becomes...guess what? Another band of...RADIO! Just like AM, FM and now HD.

Bob, I agree with you 100% about quality of content and programming.

However, if WiFi is merely another band of radio, that’s a double-edged sword. On one hand, its cost structure will be very different from over-the-air, with broadcasters piggy-backing on an infrastructure that they will bear few of the costs of setting up. Therefore it could quickly undermine current business models. One the other hand, it will offer radio an ideal vehicle for reinventing itself, as it has had to do before.

I confess to not being as familiar as you professionals with the economics of transmitting the different radio bands but, unless I’m missing something, it seems to me that the demands of a 50kW radio station both on infrastructure and electrical power would far exceed the comparable expenses of reaching a similar audience by WiFi radio. The costs of setting up and operating a WiFi infrastructure are shared among many more parties than just the radio stations. One such party is the listener who willingly pays a provider just to be hooked up to a high-speed network.

WiFi radio is a long way off, don't kid yourself. How long have cellphones been around? Still plenty of dropped calls, "can you hear me now?", etc. Get outside of major cities and their suburbs and the likelihood of this happening anytime soon get pretty remote. Remember the telcom companies are just as affected by the economy as everyone else. Adding infastructure costs $$$, and there's not much floating around these days.
It probably will happen someday (or maybe something completely new will supersede it), but not anytime soon.

The big "if" here is finding a way to make it pay. No one is going to invest millions without a way to make a return on it.

WiFi radio need not require huge initial investments. Starting small and expanding in small steps would be highly feasible, unlike over-the-air service in which transmission enhancements require non-trivial capital investments and regulatory clearance – which might not be available for technical reasons. A good business model will still be needed to make a return on investment, but lower expenses can translate to lower charges to advertisers. Thinking of how rapidly and suddenly other technologies have taken off and fallen in cost during our lifetimes, I think it’s quite rash to depend on any young technology being years away from widespread adoption. It’s not all that long since people thought cell phones would be confined to businesses and wealthy individuals, and that was when the necessary infrastructure was relatively primitive. WiFi is much further along than that. It may force broadcasters to adapt sooner than they are prepared for. Remember, major cities and their suburbs are where most people are. Besides, rural areas are likely to see the kind of expansion in broadband service that they experienced with electrical power supply under FDR.

And then there’s coverage area. When ALL stations will have the choice of whether to seek an audience that’s very local, world-wide or somewhere in between, I don’t see how WiFi can be considered just another band. I predict that when things shake out, most listeners will be served by WiFi and LPFM, and I don’t think it will be as far in the future as some believe.

Maybe there are flaws in this analysis that I’m not aware of; if so, perhaps someone will point them out.

I would never have understood the possibilities of WiFi radio before actually becoming a regular user. In fact, Bob, had your station not suddenly run into problems with its on-line audio, my AM-FM radio would have been banished to the basement by now. Forget HD; for what it costs, the expansion in choice that it offers is negligible.
 
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