Another "scrap KLOS" thread: Nash could be coming to LA.

[Marv-L.A.]

Michael---David Eduardo has stated for years that KKGO' s current ratings are indeed about the best they can hope for given the current ethnic mix here, and that their 35-54 and 35-64 numbers are a lot better than their 18-49 or 25-54 numbers, but that they can live with those numbers since its privately owned.

Since you're in Phoenix, do any of the country stations anywhere else in the West & Southwest (anywhere from Denver & Albuquerque westward) have the same problems that KKGO has in attempting to attract a younger audience that's less ethnic and more Caucasian?

Country radio does extremely well all over Texas & Oklahoma (although KPLX & KSCS in DFW were removed from the Mediabase panel last year since they don't play enough current music, whatever that percentage is), so any information you (or David) might have regarding those markets would also be welcome.

Thanks!

 

[michael hagerty]

Michael---David Eduardo has stated for years that KKGO' s current ratings are indeed about the best they can hope for given the current ethnic mix here, and that their 35-54 and 35-64 numbers are a lot better than their 18-49 or 25-54 numbers, but that they can live with those numbers since its privately owned.

Since you're in Phoenix, do any of the country stations anywhere else in the West & Southwest (anywhere from Denver & Albuquerque westward) have the same problems that KKGO has in attempting to attract a younger audience that's less ethnic and more Caucasian?

Country radio does extremely well all over Texas & Oklahoma (although KPLX & KSCS in DFW were removed from the Mediabase panel last year since they don't play enough current music, whatever that percentage is), so any information you (or David) might have regarding those markets would also be welcome.

Thanks!

Marv: Actually, David would be the one to answer that. He has access to all sorts of demographic breakdowns in most if not all of the markets.

I will say that I'm not sure it's accurate to say that KKGO is trying to attract an audience that is "less ethnic and more Caucasian". I think they'd be thrilled with anyone in the demo regardless of heritage. However, English-language Country tends not to perform well among Hispanics and in a market with Los Angeles' demographic, that means a large portion of the market is unlikely ever to sample the station, much less become regular listeners.

David, did I say that right?

 

[davideduardo]

I will say that I'm not sure it's accurate to say that KKGO is trying to attract an audience that is "less ethnic and more Caucasian". I think they'd be thrilled with anyone in the demo regardless of heritage. However, English-language Country tends not to perform well among Hispanics and in a market with Los Angeles' demographic, that means a large portion of the market is unlikely ever to sample the station, much less become regular listeners.

David, did I say that right?

Absolutely.

In some markets... San Antonio, Albuquerque, Fresno, McAllen... the Hispanic population is in its majority or even vast majority 2nd generation and well beyond. In these situations, country does very well. But in markets where the Hispanic population is predominantly first generation and falls off considerably after second generation, country does not index well against Hispanics.

With country becoming increasingly 18-34 friendly format, while LA in that demo is over 50% Hispanic, KKGO suffers doubly: fewer potential younger listeners and what they do get makes the station swing older in its demo profile.

 

[Thomps2525]

LARadio.com founder Don Barrett had this to say about KLOS's ratings in the latest Arbitrons: "Hoping to get a boost from Heidi & Frank replacing Mark & Brian in morning drive, KLOS fell to a new low of 1.7. Cumulus is rolling out a new country format, NASH/fm, which launches in New York and that might be a consideration for KLOS if ratings don't improve." There ya go! My only questions is: Who at KLOS thought that Heidi & Frank would provide a "boost"

 

[michael hagerty]

LARadio.com founder Don Barrett had this to say about KLOS's ratings in the latest Arbitrons: "Hoping to get a boost from Heidi & Frank replacing Mark & Brian in morning drive, KLOS fell to a new low of 1.7. Cumulus is rolling out a new country format, NASH/fm, which launches in New York and that might be a consideration for KLOS if ratings don't improve." There ya go! My only questions is: Who at KLOS thought that Heidi & Frank would provide a "boost"

See posts above as to why Nash would be an iffy move at best for Cumulus (the market's demographics, a battle with KKGO that they're not guaranteed to win).

 

[Marv-L.A.]

If you go over to http://www.countryaircheck.com and read the the first 3 or 4 pages from the first issue dated 8-21-06 within days after Emmis 'blew up' KZLA in favor of Movin' 93.9 and about a month or so after Billboard's parent company bought out Radio & Records, forcing Country Aircheck founder & longtime R&R Country Radio Editor out of a job, you'll see why the chances of a corporate owner launching a country station here are pretty slim.

Some tidbits from that issue...

1)---KZLA billed $28M in 2005 and was on track to bill 'in the low 20s', according to Emmis Radio President Rick Cummings, falling well short of their goal of $30M.

2)---Cummings stated that KZLA was very happy being at the bottom of 'the second tier' of stations as it related being pursued by agencies for buying ads, but had fallen out of that second tier--25-54 numbers ranked the station anywhere from 21st-24th in the 5 previous books, which wasn't good enough.

Cummings went on to say 'When you're 20th or lower in a flat or shrinking revenue market you don't get bought by key advertisers', which is very similar to a line that David Eduardo has posted lots of times on thuis board and on many others for several years running.

Given the implosion of radio revenue since then, I don't see any way for Cumulus or anybody else to launch a country station given their corporate cost structure; could Cumlus 'tolerate' $12M-$14M (best guess) in revenue, even if they were successful in driving KKGO out of the format as Michael stated?

You decide.

 

[Thomps2525]

Okay, okay, maybe a new country station wouldn't attract advertising from Chevrolet or Lexus or Citibank or American Airlines, but they'd definitely have lots of ads from "the smell-good plumber" and Kars For Kids.

If anyone is interested, here is a list of radio's top ten advertisers in 2012; click on the logo of Walgreens (which was #10) to see them all: http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2013/01/15/top-10-radio-advertisers-of-2012.html

 

[davideduardo]

Okay, okay, maybe a new country station wouldn't attract advertising from Chevrolet or Lexus or Citibank or American Airlines, but they'd definitely have lots of ads from "the smell-good plumber" and Kars For Kids.

As a rule, all agency accounts buy using a similar standard.

They select the top stations for reaching their target audience.

They get ad rates for those stations.

They calculate the Cost Per Point (CPP) based on audience delivery and the stations' quoted rates.

They buy the stations that deliver the most audience at the best CPP.

Works for Chevy, works for the Smell Good Plumber... and their respective agencies.

 

[Robnoxious]

I just don't see KLOS flipping to honky-tonk anytime soon.
I can see a future flip but country isn't even the first blip on my radar.

I do see Heidi & Frank going back to internet only podcasts very very soon.
Heidi & Frank need Frosty at the helm to hold those two together.
Frosty was always the glue even though he was the on-air whipping boy.

Then again, these tea leaves I'm reading came from the "94.7, The Wave will never work" when KMET blew up.
All I've learned is that I really need to buy a fresh batch of tea leaves.

 

[michael hagerty]

Then again, these tea leaves I'm reading came from the "94.7, The Wave will never work" when KMET blew up.
All I've learned is that I really need to buy a fresh batch of tea leaves.

Funny...I was thinking about that earlier today. Don't know why.

KMET lasted just shy of 19 years as an album rock station.

The Wave turns 26 next month.

 

[RadioStarOne]

"The Wave turns 26 next month."

A lot of radio people would have never thought it could last this long but it has! Very good indeed!

 

[Dave]

The way I see it, KLOS is rapidly losing ground to The Sound, which is for all intents and purposes is a classic rock station, and the only way to save it is if it wants to continue to identify as a rocker, go a bit younger. I'm not talking full-tilt active (not yet, anyway), but inject more Metallica, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Pearl Jam, Stone Temple Pilots, Soundgarden, Green Day, Foo Fighters etc. into the mix, and maybe throw in a few currents, too.

Just a suggestion...

 

[ChannelFlipper]

The way I see it, KLOS is rapidly losing ground to The Sound, which is for all intents and purposes is a classic rock station, and the only way to save it is if it wants to continue to identify as a rocker, go a bit younger. I'm not talking full-tilt active (not yet, anyway), but inject more Metallica, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Pearl Jam, Stone Temple Pilots, Soundgarden, Green Day, Foo Fighters etc. into the mix, and maybe throw in a few currents, too.

Just a suggestion...

They tried that before with disastrous results.

The music hasn't changed in the last six months, the morning show has. The lackluster effort that management put into the search for a replacement for Mark and Brian resulted in a predictably uninspiring choice of Heidi and Frank. The market had already passed on the Heidi, Frosty and Frank show at least two times in the past, so why did management think that taking the best broadcaster of the three out and putting the remaining two on the air would actually work? The effort and poor results should be a fire-able offense.

 

[traxan]

Newbie question: what is this city's aversion to an active rock channel? KLOS is fine for old fart rock but the kids today listen to Disturbed, Shinedown, Halestorm, Three Days Grace, Lacuna Coil, etc. Hell, I listen to them and I'm in KLOS's target demo. But they are nowhere to be found in the second-largest market in the country. I have to keep my radio firmly tuned to Sirius Octane.

Back when Rob Jones was reviving KNAC in 1998, he initially wanted to go terrestrial but chose the Internet instead, and he said to me back then this city desperately needed an active rock station. 15 years later, no one else thinks of it?

 

[leethalweapon]

I'm gonna take a punt here... If the NASH project takes off (read: generates revenue), look for stations like PLJ (New York) and KLOS to become format flagships for other Cumulus stations...

 

[michael hagerty]

I'm gonna take a punt here... If the NASH project takes off (read: generates revenue), look for stations like PLJ (New York) and KLOS to become format flagships for other Cumulus stations...

Punted.

NASH launched on Cumulus' new FM, 94.7, in New York. It's not going to move to WPLJ.

And as for KLOS, well, scroll back to the top of this thread and read on (short version: They'd have to engage the existing Country station, KKGO, in battle with no guarantee of winning. And if they did drive KKGO out of the format, they'd be a Country station in a market with an ethnic makeup that limits the ratings opportunities for the format).

 

[leethalweapon]

Punted.

NASH launched on Cumulus' new FM, 94.7, in New York. It's not going to move to WPLJ.

And as for KLOS, well, scroll back to the top of this thread and read on (short version: They'd have to engage the existing Country station, KKGO, in battle with no guarantee of winning. And if they did drive KKGO out of the format, they'd be a Country station in a market with an ethnic makeup that limits the ratings opportunities for the format).

What I'm saying is that if the Nash brand (expanded across other stations) works, you could see stations like KLOS and WPLJ take leading roles in similar branding projects on their respective formats. Effectively, it the Cumulus version of Premium Choice...

 

[michael hagerty]

Punted.

NASH launched on Cumulus' new FM, 94.7, in New York. It's not going to move to WPLJ.

And as for KLOS, well, scroll back to the top of this thread and read on (short version: They'd have to engage the existing Country station, KKGO, in battle with no guarantee of winning. And if they did drive KKGO out of the format, they'd be a Country station in a market with an ethnic makeup that limits the ratings opportunities for the format).

What I'm saying is that if the Nash brand (expanded across other stations) works, you could see stations like KLOS and WPLJ take leading roles in similar branding projects on their respective formats. Effectively, it the Cumulus version of Premium Choice...

Oops. Sorry, Lee. Misunderstood. Entirely possible, if Cumulus finds other ways to brand their formats.'

My apologies.

 

[robnokshus06]

The way I see it, KLOS is rapidly losing ground to The Sound, which is for all intents and purposes is a classic rock station, and the only way to save it is if it wants to continue to identify as a rocker, go a bit younger. I'm not talking full-tilt active (not yet, anyway), but inject more Metallica, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Pearl Jam, Stone Temple Pilots, Soundgarden, Green Day, Foo Fighters etc. into the mix, and maybe throw in a few currents, too.

Just a suggestion...

They tried that before with disastrous results.

The music hasn't changed in the last six months, the morning show has. The lackluster effort that management put into the search for a replacement for Mark and Brian resulted in a predictably uninspiring choice of Heidi and Frank. The market had already passed on the Heidi, Frosty and Frank show at least two times in the past, so why did management think that taking the best broadcaster of the three out and putting the remaining two on the air would actually work? The effort and poor results should be a fire-able offense.

We get that you're an H&F hater Flipper, but c'mon. "The market" passed on Frosty, Heidi & Frank? I will agree that the KABC experiment did not go very well, but nothing seems to go very well over there. As for KLSX they were consistently #1 in their target demo of men 25-54. "Management" did not remove Frosty from the team. He left to pursue his own interests and is now doing mornings in San Francisco. After Frosty split, Heidi & Frank went on to have the most successful subscription streaming podcast in the country and are recognized pioneers in the digital space. Also, KLOS' ratings have been in a slide since March of last year, well before the arrival of Heidi & Frank. If anything, they have helped to stabilize the decline in AM drive. Finally, making grand pronouncements based on the Christmas book makes you look un-informed. Pretty hard to judge the performance of a show on only 4-months. Your post might be a better fit on Tumblr.

 

[justpassingthough]

Newbie question: what is this city's aversion to an active rock channel? KLOS is fine for old fart rock but the kids today listen to Disturbed, Shinedown, Halestorm, Three Days Grace, Lacuna Coil, etc. Hell, I listen to them and I'm in KLOS's target demo. But they are nowhere to be found in the second-largest market in the country. I have to keep my radio firmly tuned to Sirius Octane.

Back when Rob Jones was reviving KNAC in 1998, he initially wanted to go terrestrial but chose the Internet instead, and he said to me back then this city desperately needed an active rock station. 15 years later, no one else thinks of it?

Active rock attracts the complete wrong demographic to be viable in Los Angeles. "The kids" today do not listen to active rock artists in great enough numbers to justify a station in this market. Quite simply, active rock is too white to exist in LA, especially amongst the younger demographics, but it works in places like the Inland Empire.

Speaking from a psychographic standpoint, active rock is also completely wrong for this market. We have a/the heritage alternative station here and another alternative station which does well amongst 18 to 34 and 18 to 49. The market is Los Angeles and Orange Counties alone, and these places have a history of producing some of the biggest alternative rock artists, along with being a beacon for alt rock artists to try their hand at fame. Our city has a less storied history when it comes to active rock.

Additionally, active rock and alternative have at times sounded nearly identical, but in its current form, alternative is heavy on indie/folk rock bands that are rather anathema to what would be played on a true active rock format (you'd never hear Atlas Genius, the Lumineers, Imagine Dragons, Alabama Shakes, Of Monsters and Men, etc on an active rock format)