Another "scrap KLOS" thread: Nash could be coming to LA.

[ChannelFlipper]

The way I see it, KLOS is rapidly losing ground to The Sound, which is for all intents and purposes is a classic rock station, and the only way to save it is if it wants to continue to identify as a rocker, go a bit younger. I'm not talking full-tilt active (not yet, anyway), but inject more Metallica, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Pearl Jam, Stone Temple Pilots, Soundgarden, Green Day, Foo Fighters etc. into the mix, and maybe throw in a few currents, too.

Just a suggestion...

They tried that before with disastrous results.

The music hasn't changed in the last six months, the morning show has. The lackluster effort that management put into the search for a replacement for Mark and Brian resulted in a predictably uninspiring choice of Heidi and Frank. The market had already passed on the Heidi, Frosty and Frank show at least two times in the past, so why did management think that taking the best broadcaster of the three out and putting the remaining two on the air would actually work? The effort and poor results should be a fire-able offense.

We get that you're an H&F hater Flipper, but c'mon. "The market" passed on Frosty, Heidi & Frank? I will agree that the KABC experiment did not go very well, but nothing seems to go very well over there. As for KLSX they were consistently #1 in their target demo of men 25-54. "Management" did not remove Frosty from the team. He left to pursue his own interests and is now doing mornings in San Francisco. After Frosty split, Heidi & Frank went on to have the most successful subscription streaming podcast in the country and are recognized pioneers in the digital space. Also, KLOS' ratings have been in a slide since March of last year, well before the arrival of Heidi & Frank. If anything, they have helped to stabilize the decline in AM drive. Finally, making grand pronouncements based on the Christmas book makes you look un-informed. Pretty hard to judge the performance of a show on only 4-months. Your post might be a better fit on Tumblr.

Not so much of a hater, more of a disliker. I have tried to give them a fair shot on multiple morning drives and they're just not doing it for me - I get that others may like them just fine. To each his own. I would rather hear tunes in the morning anyway so whether it was M&B who I did like, or H&F who I don't, my dial is usually elsewhere anyway.

But my analysis isn't based on what I like or don't like, my analysis is based purely on the business management side and the terrible job management made in the selection process, the really clumsy and awkward transition (did you hear their lame call with Mark back in NC on one of their first shows where Mark is clearly half-heartedly giving them his on-air handing off of the baton and inherent approval for management's choice? I mean really bad radio for all parties involved), the lack of any real promotion for the new show aside from a few stray billboards, and the fact that they simply were not the best choice to begin with, and if they were, I refer you back to the crummy selection process, which clearly did not interview nearly enough prospective talents for such a high profile gig.

I don't have breakout numbers so I don't know if they have "stabilized" mornings or not, but I do know that M&B significantly outperformed the rest of the dayparts when they were there and thus were largely responsible for carrying the station. The overall 6+ has gone from the mid twos to now the high ones. I know it is all about the demos and not the 6+, but when you get a significant drop like that, it is not because the kids that are too young and the geezers who are too old for the demo suddenly tuned out it mass - they had to have lost in demo too. I think enough time has gone by where those with actual access to the demos could provide some useful comparatives.

 

[traxan]

Active rock attracts the complete wrong demographic to be viable in Los Angeles. "The kids" today do not listen to active rock artists in great enough numbers to justify a station in this market. Quite simply, active rock is too white to exist in LA, especially amongst the younger demographics, but it works in places like the Inland Empire.

Robert Trujillo, Joey Vera, Carlos Cavazos, Rudy Sarzo, Tom Araya, Slash, Cedric Bixler, Ill Nino and the Deftones would like to have a word with you about rock/metal being for white kids only.

Speaking from a psychographic standpoint, active rock is also completely wrong for this market. We have a/the heritage alternative station here and another alternative station which does well amongst 18 to 34 and 18 to 49. The market is Los Angeles and Orange Counties alone, and these places have a history of producing some of the biggest alternative rock artists, along with being a beacon for alt rock artists to try their hand at fame. Our city has a less storied history when it comes to active rock.

Are you insane or completely ignorant of LA rock/metal history? This is the home of Guns n Roses and Metallica alone, along with bunches of platinum acts. And some of them got signed when KNAC played their demos, including Guns. I grew up in Rhode Island in the 1980s and knew of KNAC because of its prominence.

 

[davideduardo]

Robert Trujillo, Joey Vera, Carlos Cavazos, Rudy Sarzo, Tom Araya, Slash, Cedric Bixler, Ill Nino and the Deftones would like to have a word with you about rock/metal being for white kids only.

First, you need to say "Non-Hispanic White Kids" since in LA about 90% of LA Hispanics are classified by the Census as "white". Hispanic is a culture or ethnicity, not a race.

Second, the fact is that everywhere there is or has been an Active Rock station, it has severely and dramatically underindexed against Hispanics.

Are you insane or completely ignorant of LA rock/metal history? This is the home of Guns n Roses and Metallica alone, along with bunches of platinum acts. And some of them got signed when KNAC played their demos, including Guns. I grew up in Rhode Island in the 1980s and knew of KNAC because of its prominence.

KNAC ceased to exist in early 1995. When it sold, it had less than a 1 share with its type of music, and the numbers had been declining.

LA's 18-34 population is over half Hispanic. The fact that few, very few, Hispanics as a rule have any affinity for active rock, means that it would be dreadfully difficult for an active rock station to get traction in LA today... 18 years after KNAC crashed and burned.

 

[colininla]

The market had already passed on the Heidi, Frosty and Frank show at least two times in the past, so why did management think that taking the best broadcaster of the three out and putting the remaining two on the air would actually work? The effort and poor results should be a fire-able offense.


So totally agree. For all the flack heaped upon Frosty (yeah, it was part of the schtick, but...), he was the pro of the trio, for sure.

 

[lp]

18 years after KNAC crashed and burned.

Hey! Ouch!! That's rather graphic :-\ Let's get it straight, KNAC was never an Active Rock station. It was Metal. For the sake of argument I won't comment on its strengths or weaknesses or why it did or didn't succeed on a larger scale. The Active Rock panel was created in '95 because promotionally, labels didn't distinguish between rock and alternative formats. Alternative music was the hot hand (read KROQ) at the time, so a disproportionate amount of promo dollars went to the alternative stations within a market. Carey Curelop at KLOS and Steve Young at KISW threatened a boycott unless a current intensive rock panel was created. Active Rock. Although in later years, the Active Rock playlist would be much different than a mainstream, originally, Active stations would play Corrosion of Conformity and Metallica along side Counting Crows and Tom Petty.

To present day LA, I do believe that a day-parted, mainstream rocker that leaned classic could be successful. There are dozens of well tested bands, hundreds of well tested songs, that have never been played out in LA over the last 15 years simply because no one had to play them. KROQ has gotten a free ride. All in all, there's a ten share of rock in play, in LA.

 

[SimiRadioListener26]

The market had already passed on the Heidi, Frosty and Frank show at least two times in the past, so why did management think that taking the best broadcaster of the three out and putting the remaining two on the air would actually work? The effort and poor results should be a fire-able offense.


So totally agree. For all the flack heaped upon Frosty (yeah, it was part of the schtick, but...), he was the pro of the trio, for sure.

It wasn't management's decision. Frosty made the decision years ago to break away from the other two (after they were fired from KABC).

 

[davideduardo]

Hey! Ouch!! That's rather graphic :-\ Let's get it straight, KNAC was never an Active Rock station.

Whatever it was is immaterial... it was the example I was responding to.

The mystique surrounding some long gone stations is rather hard to interpret. Of late, we have had paeans to KNAC and encouragement for the return of The Wave and KMPC's original formats.

All of these formats, as good as they might have been at some point, faded, crashed or failed in some way and became impossible to sustain economically.

And, aside from alternative, none of those rock subsets or genres is a good fit for today's LA in the demographic sense.

 

[Marv-L.A.]

After what happened to Pirate Radio in the early nineties despite the gobs of $$$ which Westwood One spent launching it, and KLOS's super-disastrous flirting with alternative which included hiring KNAC jocks such as Randy Maranz, nobody is going to spend a dime trying to relaunch a similar station in LA given the market's current ethnic mix which David has explained repeatedly for numerous years.

KIIS & KAMP combined for a 10.1 share about three years ago IIRC, the highest share for that format since KIIS hit a 10.0 in the fall of 1984; a 10.0 share for more rock stations in addition to KLOS, KROQ & 98.7 today sounds iffy, and there's no assurances that a newly launched rock station with a Pirate Radio-emulated playlist could take a bite out of those three stations to be a success economically and ratings-wise.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

The market had already passed on the Heidi, Frosty and Frank show at least two times in the past, so why did management think that taking the best broadcaster of the three out and putting the remaining two on the air would actually work? The effort and poor results should be a fire-able offense.


So totally agree. For all the flack heaped upon Frosty (yeah, it was part of the schtick, but...), he was the pro of the trio, for sure.

It wasn't management's decision. Frosty made the decision years ago to break away from the other two (after they were fired from KABC).

I think we all know that it is Frosty who left the other two on his own well before the KLOS gig ever came up. No one said KLOS management split them up, rather the point is that KLOS management took by far the two weaker talents of the trio and put them on the air. That was their decision.

 

[SimiRadioListener26]

The market had already passed on the Heidi, Frosty and Frank show at least two times in the past, so why did management think that taking the best broadcaster of the three out and putting the remaining two on the air would actually work? The effort and poor results should be a fire-able offense.


So totally agree. For all the flack heaped upon Frosty (yeah, it was part of the schtick, but...), he was the pro of the trio, for sure.

It wasn't management's decision. Frosty made the decision years ago to break away from the other two (after they were fired from KABC).

I think we all know that it is Frosty who left the other two on his own well before the KLOS gig ever came up. No one said KLOS management split them up, rather the point is that KLOS management took by far the two weaker talents of the trio and put them on the air. That was their decision.

If you look at what I quoted, "colininla" says "why did management think that taking the best broadcaster of the three out...", etc. He thought that management took Frosty out of the trio.

 

[traxan]

KNAC ceased to exist in early 1995. When it sold, it had less than a 1 share with its type of music, and the numbers had been declining.

LA's 18-34 population is over half Hispanic. The fact that few, very few, Hispanics as a rule have any affinity for active rock, means that it would be dreadfully difficult for an active rock station to get traction in LA today... 18 years after KNAC crashed and burned.

First, KNAC was an independent station in Long Beach with all the broadcast power of a hair drier. I believe that was how Rob put it.

Second, it crashed and burned in 1995. Heavy metal was at its nadir then. All the 80s bands broke up. All that was left was Metallica, who were sucking hard, and Pantera. Metal and hard rock had a nice resurgeance this past decade. You can't use patterns of 1995 to decide things in 2012.

And I still dispute how you can say Hispanic kids aren't into rock. You got several SoCal bands made of partly or entirely of Hispanics, like Deftones, Ill Nino, POD, Mars Volta, I see tons of Hispanic kids at shows that I do attend, I hear it coming from cars in Hispanic neighborhoods (clearly a CD), and Latin America is one of the hottest markets for bands to tour these days.

But by all means, cater to just the Hispanic audience. They are clearly underserved in the radio market here. <eye roll>

 

[Thomps2525]

Mister traxan, if you're rolling your eyes, let me go get them and roll them back to you. According to census data released yesterday (January 31), there will be more Hispanics than whites in California next year. We will be only the third state where whites are not a plurality. (The others are New Mexico and Hawai'i.) Mister Eduardo might be able to predict how Los Angeles radio could change in the next decade as Hispanics make up a larger and larger share of our population.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/01/us-usa-population-california-idUSBRE91006920130201

 

[davideduardo]

First, KNAC was an independent station in Long Beach with all the broadcast power of a hair drier. I believe that was how Rob put it.

Whether KNAC was independent or owned by a company with stations elsewhere is not a relevant piece of information. People listen to stations, not companies.

As to power, it is enough to get a 3 share for its successor... KBUE... even before it had a simulcast. And its 60 dbu signal covers over 6 million people.

Second, it crashed and burned in 1995.

Actually, it crashed in the 1992-1994 period, and the owner decided in 1994 to sell with the closing taking place in February of 1995. The last few months included frequent anti-Hispanic comments by the airstaff.

Heavy metal was at its nadir then. All the 80s bands broke up. All that was left was Metallica, who were sucking hard, and Pantera. Metal and hard rock had a nice resurgeance this past decade. You can't use patterns of 1995 to decide things in 2012.

Formats in that general theatre play loads of gold. The production zeniths or nadirs really don't affect them all that much if there is underlying interest in the genre.

Generally, lack of airplay for nearly two decades will reduce the interest and familiarity with music in that genre.

And I still dispute how you can say Hispanic kids aren't into rock.

As a person who has been in "Hispanic" radio for the last 50 years, I can say that the interest in rock represents a small niche. And even among second generation Hispanics in LA, we find that if there is any interest it is in the KROQ and KYSR style of rock.

You got several SoCal bands made of partly or entirely of Hispanics, like Deftones, Ill Nino, POD, Mars Volta,

There are some salsa bands in Japan. That does not mean there is an interest in salsa at a level that would support a radio station.

I see tons of Hispanic kids at shows that I do attend, I hear it coming from cars in Hispanic neighborhoods

As I said, a niche. Jerry García does not, by virtue of being Hispanic, prove that all Hispanics are deadheads.

Latin America is one of the hottest markets for bands to tour these days.

When you have cities of 23 million (Mexico City) or 15 to 20 million like Buenos Aires, Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo, filling a venue for a niche genre is not hard.

On the other hand, there is no Active Rock station in any of those places. The closest is a more mainstream rocker in Buenos Aires, but it plays 100% local product in Spanish. Mexico, Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic... have nothing even close to an active rocker.

But by all means, cater to just the Hispanic audience. They are clearly underserved in the radio market here. <eye roll>

Yeah, at 43% of the radio market population in LA, they are, by some metrics, underserved.