• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Another TV question...

Juan Bodley

Juan Bodley

(Since I trust the logic/brainpower of this "braintrust" :) I'm going to ask this question here...)

This is about sign on/sign off for a TV station. I happened to catch WPTA's "start of day" sign on at 4 AM last week (in the midst of paid ads; it's also so they get back of the top of the hour when the news goes to 11:35.) Now that they're only running a digital signal they haven't updated their frequency and power output (they still say "broadcasting on a frequency of 512 to 518 MHz, at 557,000 watts";) shouldn't they update that AND/OR are they risking penalty for still running this??

Even better, they're the only TV station in town doing this. I assume that somewhere in the past 15 years the FCC has relaxed the rules governing sign on/sign off when stations run programming 24/7. When I was at WANE-TV we ran a sign on at 5 AM before the local morning news began. Is this just one of those items that they don't enforce anymore??
 
At least since I've been in the business, the only thing ever required was a legal ID. All the technical details were for tech geeks.
 
It's not so much that "tech geeks love details"; I'm just wondering if they can get nailed for this. (There's a LOT of people around these parts that are upset with the way Granite/Indiana's NewsCenter/WPTA/name to come later is running the store.) More than anything, I just had to laugh at the fact that they went all digital and here they are still running the stats for their ANALOG rig. Fools I say fools!! hehehe.....
 
Juan Bodley said:
It's not so much that "tech geeks love details"; I'm just wondering if they can get nailed for this. (There's a LOT of people around these parts that are upset with the way Granite/Indiana's NewsCenter/WPTA/name to come later is running the store.) More than anything, I just had to laugh at the fact that they went all digital and here they are still running the stats for their ANALOG rig. Fools I say fools!! hehehe.....
Click to expand...

What would they get nailed on? As long as they provide the minimal required legal ID ("WPTA Fort Wayne," either aurally or visually each hour and at the start and end of broadcast operation), the FCC doesn't care what else they do, or don't, say around it.

Remember, these are the same folks who ID the CW subchannel every hour as "CW 19/7." The "19" is the Comcast channel position...but "7"? Nobody's quite sure where that came from - it's seen on 6 on Fios and 21.2 over the air.
 
Juan, dude, it's an oversight. Remember, to succeed in the TV business, they have cut staff to the bone. Someone hasn't gotten around to changing it yet. No one probably even knows it exists. Like the time channel 15 ran a promo for Lee Kelso on the news 8 weeks after he had left the building. It's TV, not rocket science. However, congratulations are in order....you're probably the only person in the last 10 years to ever have seen that announcement. You are a gem, sir.
 
Juan, dude, it's an oversight. Remember, to succeed in the TV business, they have cut staff to the bone. Someone hasn't gotten around to changing it yet. No one probably even knows it exists. Like the time channel 15 ran a promo for Lee Kelso on the news 8 weeks after he had left the building. It's TV, not rocket science. However, congratulations are in order....you're probably the only person in the last 10 years to ever have seen that announcement. You are a gem, sir.
 
Juan Bodley said:
(Since I trust the logic/brainpower of this "braintrust" :) I'm going to ask this question here...)

This is about sign on/sign off for a TV station. I happened to catch WPTA's "start of day" sign on at 4 AM last week (in the midst of paid ads; it's also so they get back of the top of the hour when the news goes to 11:35.) Now that they're only running a digital signal they haven't updated their frequency and power output (they still say "broadcasting on a frequency of 512 to 518 MHz, at 557,000 watts";) shouldn't they update that AND/OR are they risking penalty for still running this??

Even better, they're the only TV station in town doing this. I assume that somewhere in the past 15 years the FCC has relaxed the rules governing sign on/sign off when stations run programming 24/7. When I was at WANE-TV we ran a sign on at 5 AM before the local morning news began. Is this just one of those items that they don't enforce anymore??
Click to expand...

73.1201 does require a legal ID at signon/signoff. However, "signoff" only happens if the station suspends operation - turns the transmitter off. If WPTA never turns the transmitter off, then they never sign off and the only IDs required are the hourly ones. Likewise, if the transmitter is never turned off, it's also never turned on (it's always on) so there is no signon and no requirement for a signon ID.

To put it another way, "signoff" only happens if you turn the transmitter off. The vast majority of TV stations never sign off. (and if you've never signed off, you can't sign on)

The *contents* of the signon/signoff ID are the same as those for the hourly ID -- call letters and city-of-license, with a limited number of insertions permitted. It is not *required* to announce the operating frequency. I would imagine if you announce it as part of the ID -- between the call letters and the city -- you need to get it right, though I highly doubt the FCC would go to any lengths to prosecute.

Of course, that also means that if you do sign off (or on) at the top of an hour, the hourly ID covers the signon/signoff ID. There's at least a 50/50 chance any given FM/TV station that *does* sign off/on will do so at the top of an hour.

"Signing on, this is WPTA, broadcasting on a frequency of 512 to 518 MHz from Fort Wayne."
-- would be technically illegal, because the inserted frequency is wrong. (actually, there's another reason it would be technically illegal -- because the call letters of the digital station are not WPTA)

"Signing on, this is WPTA, Fort Wayne, broadcasting on a frequency of 512 to 518 MHz."
-- would be legal, because the frequency is not inserted between the call letters and the city, so it isn't legally part of the ID. (actually, this version would still be technically illegal but only because the digital station's call letters are not WPTA...)
 
Scott Fybush said:
Juan Bodley said:
It's not so much that "tech geeks love details"; I'm just wondering if they can get nailed for this. (There's a LOT of people around these parts that are upset with the way Granite/Indiana's NewsCenter/WPTA/name to come later is running the store.) More than anything, I just had to laugh at the fact that they went all digital and here they are still running the stats for their ANALOG rig. Fools I say fools!! hehehe.....
Click to expand...

What would they get nailed on? As long as they provide the minimal required legal ID ("WPTA Fort Wayne," either aurally or visually each hour and at the start and end of broadcast operation), the FCC doesn't care what else they do, or don't, say around it.

Remember, these are the same folks who ID the CW subchannel every hour as "CW 19/7." The "19" is the Comcast channel position...but "7"? Nobody's quite sure where that came from - it's seen on 6 on Fios and 21.2 over the air.
Click to expand...

Scott I trust your knowledge on this, hence I asked the question.
What I thought COULD happen is since they were giving old, out of date info, and since the FCC is a stickler for details, that there MIGHT be something they'd get a fine over...

w9wi said:
73.1201 does require a legal ID at signon/signoff. However, "signoff" only happens if the station suspends operation - turns the transmitter off. If WPTA never turns the transmitter off, then they never sign off and the only IDs required are the hourly ones. Likewise, if the transmitter is never turned off, it's also never turned on (it's always on) so there is no signon and no requirement for a signon ID.

To put it another way, "signoff" only happens if you turn the transmitter off. The vast majority of TV stations never sign off. (and if you've never signed off, you can't sign on)

The *contents* of the signon/signoff ID are the same as those for the hourly ID -- call letters and city-of-license, with a limited number of insertions permitted. It is not *required* to announce the operating frequency. I would imagine if you announce it as part of the ID -- between the call letters and the city -- you need to get it right, though I highly doubt the FCC would go to any lengths to prosecute.

Of course, that also means that if you do sign off (or on) at the top of an hour, the hourly ID covers the signon/signoff ID. There's at least a 50/50 chance any given FM/TV station that *does* sign off/on will do so at the top of an hour.

"Signing on, this is WPTA, broadcasting on a frequency of 512 to 518 MHz from Fort Wayne."
-- would be technically illegal, because the inserted frequency is wrong. (actually, there's another reason it would be technically illegal -- because the call letters of the digital station are not WPTA)

"Signing on, this is WPTA, Fort Wayne, broadcasting on a frequency of 512 to 518 MHz."
-- would be legal, because the frequency is not inserted between the call letters and the city, so it isn't legally part of the ID. (actually, this version would still be technically illegal but only because the digital station's call letters are not WPTA...)
Click to expand...

And that someone would know PRECISE details about the ruling, again, I thank you. This is one of the "nitpick" kind of questions that I never seemed to get a grasp on...now a legal ID once an hour, I knew that. (We had it bashed in our heads at my high school station...)
 
Juan Bodley said:
Scott I trust your knowledge on this, hence I asked the question.
What I thought COULD happen is since they were giving old, out of date info, and since the FCC is a stickler for details, that there MIGHT be something they'd get a fine over...
Click to expand...

It's awfully hard to get fined these days... In the time since the FCC Internet presence came along, I can only recall ONE station being cited for failure to ID. (and that was for failure to identify at all, not for IDing with the wrong information) The Commission *must* be aware of the common practice of stations IDing as early as 15 minutes before or after the hour -- which is not permitted by the regulations -- but I've *never* heard of a station being cited for that.

This kind of thing just isn't going to be on the Commission's radar.
 
Juan Bodley said:
Scott I trust your knowledge on this, hence I asked the question.
What I thought COULD happen is since they were giving old, out of date info, and since the FCC is a stickler for details, that there MIGHT be something they'd get a fine over...

w9wi said:
73.1201 does require a legal ID at signon/signoff. However, "signoff" only happens if the station suspends operation - turns the transmitter off. If WPTA never turns the transmitter off, then they never sign off and the only IDs required are the hourly ones. Likewise, if the transmitter is never turned off, it's also never turned on (it's always on) so there is no signon and no requirement for a signon ID.

To put it another way, "signoff" only happens if you turn the transmitter off. The vast majority of TV stations never sign off. (and if you've never signed off, you can't sign on)

The *contents* of the signon/signoff ID are the same as those for the hourly ID -- call letters and city-of-license, with a limited number of insertions permitted. It is not *required* to announce the operating frequency. I would imagine if you announce it as part of the ID -- between the call letters and the city -- you need to get it right, though I highly doubt the FCC would go to any lengths to prosecute.

Of course, that also means that if you do sign off (or on) at the top of an hour, the hourly ID covers the signon/signoff ID. There's at least a 50/50 chance any given FM/TV station that *does* sign off/on will do so at the top of an hour.

"Signing on, this is WPTA, broadcasting on a frequency of 512 to 518 MHz from Fort Wayne."
-- would be technically illegal, because the inserted frequency is wrong. (actually, there's another reason it would be technically illegal -- because the call letters of the digital station are not WPTA)

"Signing on, this is WPTA, Fort Wayne, broadcasting on a frequency of 512 to 518 MHz."
-- would be legal, because the frequency is not inserted between the call letters and the city, so it isn't legally part of the ID. (actually, this version would still be technically illegal but only because the digital station's call letters are not WPTA...)
Click to expand...

And that someone would know PRECISE details about the ruling, again, I thank you. This is one of the "nitpick" kind of questions that I never seemed to get a grasp on...now a legal ID once an hour, I knew that. (We had it bashed in our heads at my high school station...)
Click to expand...

But how will the aliens (space not illegal) know what channel to tune into?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0LRwYCTObA&feature=related

Arrrrrggggghhhhhh! Too many channels!
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom