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Another way to look at 1st Philly PPM

What do ALL of the top stations, according to the first PPM Philly ratings, have in common?
Not a single one targets 18-34.
Look at the list: B-101, KYW, WMMR, WOGL, WMGK, WDAS, WXTU, WBEN, WPHT, etc. are all 25-54 (or in some cases, 35+ or even 45+) stations.
The 18-34 stations? Q-102, Power, WYSP, Wired, WPHI ... all toward the bottom.

Is is because too many of them (Q, Wired, Power, WPHI) are going after the same audience?

Or, are the younger listeners turning away from FM radio toward Ipods and Internet radio?

Whatever the reason, I'm kinda happy to see the stations that target older audiences up top. I'll be 44 this year. I know in another five or so years, advertisers won't care about me anymore.
There are lots of TV shows (the evening news, for example) that target older viewers. Why has FM radio been in such a hurry to abandon 50+ listeners (for the most part)? I know, ad agencies, etc.
 
Or, are the younger listeners turning away from FM radio toward Ipods and Internet radio?

Bingo.

Why has FM radio been in such a hurry to abandon 50+ listeners (for the most part)? I know, ad agencies, etc.

Many stations would love to program unique formats that appeal to "undesirable" demos. Unfortunately the big-market culture of being addicted to agency buys forces these stations into the shackles of what Madison Avenue wants. When stations and groups learn how to effectively re-design their business models and efforts into concentrating more on direct (local) sales, they'll regain some autonomy and be able to serve the general public again. (In some markets, 80 percent of the stations target the same 20 percent of the population. And if you have testicles, there's not much for you on the FM band in many places.)

The migration toward more direct sales will happen. Radio, complete with its massive inferiority complex, is like the pathetic guy in school who'll do anything for the pretty girl (ad agencies). Once all of the present-day teens and young adults (none of whom listen to FM or AM, despite the self-serving "statistics" and questionably-commissioned "studies" the terrestrial radio apologists try to shove down our throats) age into 25-54 in a few years, Madison Avenue will kick radio to the curb faster than that high school cheerleader dumps the nice guy for the football player weeks before the Senior Prom. And radio will be forced to adjust, spending thousands on seminars and so forth to train guys to go after Mom-and-Pops and smaller-scale regional businesses. And those local advertisers will be older. And those stations will begin to revive formats that appeal to these decision-makers. They'll have to go after the few listeners left who still believe in terrestrial radio (older Americans). Perhaps those folks are the real "nice guys" in the school. Radio, for the most part, has crapped and crapped on them. Yet they'll still keep listening. Soon, chances are, they'll get their reward.
 
And if you have testicles, there's not much for you on the FM band in many places.)

>>>>BRAVO! Oh so true! Can you say Philly's....er, My 106? Remember, this station was once Eagle 106, and way before that, the legendary WWSH.

. Yet they'll still keep listening. Soon, chances are, they'll get their reward.

>>>>Nope, I've pretty much given up. The 'oldies' station in town has forgotten what an oldie is. So, as I speak, I'm listening to what amounts to a radio geek's pet project, a recreation of 'The Big 610, KFRC San Francisco' (one of the big Drake stations out on the left coast back in the day). Sounds great, like WFIL in its heyday, complete with jingles (URL: http://sc3.spacialnet.com:9784/). I'm tired of crap terrestrial radio. So, I have found alternatives.


[/quote]
 
George Brusstar said:
>>Or, are the younger listeners turning away from FM radio toward Ipods and Internet radio?<<

Bingo.

Or, the other alternative is to realize that the 18-34 audience is more fragmented than the older segments.

Many stations would love to program unique formats that appeal to "undesirable" demos. Unfortunately the big-market culture of being addicted to agency buys forces these stations into the shackles of what Madison Avenue wants. When stations and groups learn how to effectively re-design their business models and efforts into concentrating more on direct (local) sales, they'll regain some autonomy and be able to serve the general public again. (In some markets, 80 percent of the stations target the same 20 percent of the population. And if you have testicles, there's not much for you on the FM band in many places.)

The "big market culture" is not a culture at all, but, rather, a reality. In larger markets, the bulk of the local clients that can advertise on major radio stations is big enough to have an agency. But, more than that, in today's world the major retailers, manufacturers and service providers are national in scope, and can not place ads locally as they have no local office to do such a thing.

The bigger the market, the fewer local direct accounts there are that can afford the rates that are appropriate for a major radio station. And more accounts that come out of agencies are required to sustain a station.

Selling to agencies is not a "cop out" as it is just as hard as direct selling, although the process is totally different... often involving presentations via one's rep firm to agencies in places as remote as Seattle or Atlanta or San Francisco.

To get on buys that are numbers based (and don't think that the successful car dealer who has no agency does not look at numbers) the audience of a station must be somewhere in the 18 to 54 range. That is vastly more than 20% of the population. It's more like the vast majority of the adult population, in fact.

Even the more thoughtful direct accounts have a knowledge of who their clientele is, and they will attempt to buy on a station that matches the buyer profile for the people who make use of the advertiser's offerings.

The migration toward more direct sales will happen.

Actually, as retail consolidates more over time, there will be less direct business.

The percentage of direct buisness a station does is directly related to the station's market rank and ranking in the market.

A station that is #32 in LA will do mostly direct business. It will charge low rates that are accessable to smaller businesses; it can make money, but not the way it might with higher ratings. A station in market 286 will likely do almost all local direct business, as agency buys on a national level seldom get that deep... if high rated, they may get some regional agency business, such as regional car dealer and supermarket money, but this will be much more limited than the case in much bigger markets.

This model is not going to change.

Radio, complete with its massive inferiority complex, is like the pathetic guy in school who'll do anything for the pretty girl (ad agencies). Once all of the present-day teens and young adults (none of whom listen to FM or AM, despite the self-serving "statistics" and questionably-commissioned "studies" the terrestrial radio apologists try to shove down our throats) age into 25-54 in a few years, Madison Avenue will kick radio to the curb faster than that high school cheerleader dumps the nice guy for the football player weeks before the Senior Prom. And radio will be forced to adjust, spending thousands on seminars and so forth to train guys to go after Mom-and-Pops and smaller-scale regional businesses. And those local advertisers will be older. And those stations will begin to revive formats that appeal to these decision-makers. They'll have to go after the few listeners left who still believe in terrestrial radio (older Americans). Perhaps those folks are the real "nice guys" in the school. Radio, for the most part, has crapped and crapped on them. Yet they'll still keep listening. Soon, chances are, they'll get their reward.

In the meantime, radio per the PPM reaches over 95% of the population weekly, and radio has to offer the services advertisers want. Radio has no "inferiority" complex; we are a service industry and we provide a service that advertisers want, not one that we stubbornly want to offer but that nearly no advertisers want to use.


[/quote]
 
radiophiler said:
There are lots of TV shows (the evening news, for example) that target older viewers. Why has FM radio been in such a hurry to abandon 50+ listeners (for the most part)? I know, ad agencies, etc.

Radio programs by format, not by the program. TV offers (if you have cable or satellite) thousands of different programs a week. Local radio offers a few dozen formats. So each format has to focus on the broadest possible audience segment that can be viable achieved with the facility, taking coverage, band and such into account.

Radio has not abandoned 50+. In fact, the area where there is nearly no ad buying is 55+, not 50+. The age criteria for agency buys is generally not determined by the agency but by the client, who knows who the goods or services they offer appeal to. They instruct the agency as to the age target. And this applies to AM and FM...

So the reason why there are scant few offerings targeted specifically at 55+ listeners is that there are scant few advertisers who are interested in using radio to reach that group.
 
Fair enough answer, David. So here's my next question: For the WOGL's and WMGK's of the world that have a significant portion nof their audience 55+, how are they making a go of it?
For that matter, most talk stations (the exception being the Free-FM-like stations) also have large percentages of their audiences in the 55+ range. How are they getting advertisers?
 
radiophiler said:
Fair enough answer, David. So here's my next question: For the WOGL's and WMGK's of the world that have a significant portion nof their audience 55+, how are they making a go of it?

It's actually simple. Both of those stations, still, have over half the listeners unde 55. So, when they compete for most buys in the 25-54 range, they price based on the 25-54 delivery, not the total audience.

In fact, this is the way all pricing is done. Let's say you are a female heavy station, and there is a "guy buy" you can price the male audience competively to be on the buy, or you take a pass.

For that matter, most talk stations (the exception being the Free-FM-like stations) also have large percentages of their audiences in the 55+ range. How are they getting advertisers?

The same way. Most traditional n/t stations are more or less half and half on either side of 55. They sell the salable part.

On the other hand, the gradual trend to move such formats to FM or to create new FM traditional talkers is due to the fact that the format has 35-54 appeal, but AM does not. Clear has started new n/t FMs in Pittsburgh and New Orleans, and moved several from AM to FM, like in Tallahassee. Bonneville has moved n/t from AM to FM in Phoenix, and is simulcasting in Salt Lake... the idea being to get better 35-54 sales demos from bing only on FM or doing a simulcast.
 
Kind of strange when you think about it. Philly had WWDB FM back in '75. And now the only talk stations are on AM in these parts. Seems like a reverse trend.

What happened to the discussion of expanding the FM Band and eliminating the AM Band? I remember something about that a long time ago. If what you say is true, than AM stations will be worthless one day.
 
Here's another way to look at the "currency" ratings from Philly's first PPM Arbitron ... and I'm surprised that we haven't figured this out by now...

If you turned the numbers completely upside down (12+) ...

WPEN would be #1!
 
Urban is down in NY. The younger leaning urban stations are down in DC and Baltimore. I wonder if the stations that play hip hop in Philly are down because of the switch to PPM OR would they have declined anyway as part of a national (or at least regional) trend against hip hop?
 
oaktree said:
Here's another way to look at the "currency" ratings from Philly's first PPM Arbitron ... and I'm surprised that we haven't figured this out by now...

If you turned the numbers completely upside down (12+) ...

WPEN would be #1!

By any chance is WCOJ in the Top 5?
 
No, sorry. Wouldn't that be somethin'?

Imagine this nightmare: WNWR beats WPEN, especially on Saturdays. Ya think we'd hear heads roll like bowling balls that day?
 
I wonder who is wearing these PPM's? Is it primarily the older demos, with the younger not wanting to do so? And is there an ethnic divide?
 
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