Antenna Shortages the Weekend of June 13th ?????

[TheRover]

With the coming DTV transition the weekend of June 13th..... I have noticed that Wal-Mart has lots of regular antennas stocked.

But here's the glitch......

No one knows for sure what kind of antenna, regular or amplified indoor anteena, will actually be able to pull in the DTV signals, once the cutover has occured.

I hooked up an amplified indoor antenna and tried to get DTV signals in Garland, Tx. with a converter box attached. Got maybe one station to come in.

I unhooked the converter box, and with the amplified antenna I was able to get sveeral over the air stations.

So, on the weekend of the June 13th, when people's analog sets become mostly useless..... they go out and actully find a converter box to buy.

But then, they hook up the box, and the antenna that they had used for analog reception.... and they can't get much at all.

So....they go back up to Wal-Mart..... and low and behold..... the Amplifed antennas, of which there were 15 instock.... are now all gone off the shelves.....

But over in a big floor display, are 40-50 or more of regular antennas..... which will get them jack.

THAT'S the antenna shortage that I'm speaking of !!!

 

[whit979]

If your local Walmart store is still stocking analog TV antennas (antennae?), you might consider calling the store's head manager and asking about that. I'm not sure if the rules applying to analog TVs for sale were also applied to reception equipment, but no doubt a display of "regular antennas" is misleading if they are, in fact, analog and not digital.

 

[upstate29651]

There is no such thing as an "analog" or "digital" antenna. Radio waves are radio waves. An antenna is an antenna.

G

 

[ansky212]

There is no such thing as an "analog" or "digital" antenna. Radio waves are radio waves. An antenna is an antenna.

G

Exactly. I was just going to post this same thing. There is only a difference between antennas optimized for VHF and others optimized for UHF reception. I have an old UHF antenna that is at least 20 years old and it pulls in digital tv signals just fine. What may be confusing to some people is if they are used to watching a channel that is VHF analog and now UHF digital. Most of the antennas stores are pushing now are optimized for UHF because in the majority of markets most, if not all, digital stations are broadcasting in the UHF range.

 

[kenglish]

There's really no need for anyone to wait until June 13....most stations are already broadcasting DTV, and have been for years.

Some will be making changes, but many are going to be exactly the same on 6-13 as they were on 6-12.
Stations that will "flash-cut" will be on the same channel as their current analog signals, usually with power levels that proportionately mimic their analog power (digital reception, on the same channel as the analog, takes far less power). So, if you get OK analog on those channels, they should be fine on Digital.

Some stations will eventually (say, over a few months) move their antennas to the top of towers, but this will mostly affect people on the fringes of their coverage area. If you are within their primary analog coverage area, you should still get a good signal.

As far as antennas go, it's best to stay away from those "amplified" indoor antennas. If the antenna can't get a good signal where it is sitting, it isn't going to be improved by amplifying the bad signal. You're far better off to try different positions for the antenna (sometime, right on the floor works best!). Amplified antennas also tend to overload easily, especially in a city...where FM stations operate at what some engineers call "obscene" power levels. If you try one, telescope the long (VHF) elements down to their minimal length before scanning for UHF DTV stations. That will minimize the FM and VHF signals. After you get good UHF, then try increasing the VHF rod lengths, until just before the point where UHFs start having problems. If you're lucky, you'll find the spot where the VHFs come in, without overloading the whole amplifier (and DTV tuner) and lousing up the UHF.
If the amplified antenna has a gain control, do the above, starting with the minimum gain settings.

Best results, of course, are going to come with a good outdoor antenna, if you can have one. People in apartments and condos might convince management (or the HOA) to allow unobtrusive outdoor antennas, or install a (single) common antenna and a distribution system. With the current economic problems, free TV could be an incentive for buyers and renters. A VHF+UHF combo antenna is best, since it will cover any future VHF channels, and will give your FM radio an improved signal, too.

Something that I hope to see in the future, is more affordable Master Antenna TV (MATV) system equipment, including suitable "space-diversity" processing equipment, which would greatly improve reception in buildings near airports and freeways, by eliminating constantly-varying multi-path signals. This has been a big factor in nearly all the "but we can't get Digital" news articles I've read.

 

[whit979]

There is no such thing as an "analog" or "digital" antenna. Radio waves are radio waves. An antenna is an antenna.

G

D'oh! He fooled me! :-X

 

[TexasTom]

I hooked up an amplified indoor antenna and tried to get DTV signals in Garland, Tx. with a converter box attached. Got maybe one station to come in.

I unhooked the converter box, and with the amplified antenna I was able to get sveeral over the air stations.

Hmmm.

Either you're in a very tough location (an apartment that faces north, or is otherwise blocked from getting decent reception) or that antenna isn't a very good one.

I'm in central Plano, which probably puts me a comparable distance from the Cedar Hill transmitter sites as you are in Garland. While I use an outdoor antenna for my main television, I have a couple of other sets that are running off of indoor antennas. One set is connected to a Terk HDTVi and the other to an old Radio Shack 2-bay bowtie. Of the major stations, the only one that is dicey is WFAA 8.1 (not a surprise, since that 2-bay bowtie is a UHF-only antenna and WFAA is on channel 9 for their digital signal). KLDT 54.1 is also marginal, but all the other full power stations come in reliably with either antenna.

So you may want to try a different antenna -- you shouldn't really need the amplification (neither of the antennas that I'm using are amplified), but may just not have the right antenna for the job.

The challenge, of course, is that few viewers know how to select an appropriate antenna for television reception -- it's a mostly lost art. But with digital television's "cliff effect", it is also a necessary art if viewers are going to end up with a decent digital viewing experience.

 

[TheRover]

Where I actually live in central Irving, (the Garland install was for a friend), I have found the "sweet spot" for DTV reception. I have the Phillips MANT410, with amplification (45dB VHF and 30 dB UHF).. I have the VHF dipoles extended horizontally at 28 of the 44 inches possible. The antenna sits atop an entertainment center that is five feet tall. I get good reception, except when it very windy, in whcih case some of the stations don't come in as well.

I look forward to the full power operation of the DTV signals.

I am happy using an amplified antenna. I tried an unampified antenna first.

I think there will be some problems with reception. I don't put full trust in the statement "if you are curently receiving OTA signals fine with your current antenna, then you will receive the DTV signals fine with your converter box."

Don't forget to re-scan for channels that weekend !

 

[Robnoxious]

I have a "Monster Cable Antenna" and I spent 200 dollars for it.
It will work flawlessly because it is expensive.

PT Barnum's theory of "A Sucker is born every minute" will forever ring true as long as the uninformed still wander the Earth.

But what do I know, I bought HDMI cables for cents on the dollar online. 8)

 

[willcail]

Well I do get great DTV reception and finally found a spot so I can pick up Columbus Ohio (so far) low power digital CA station. The best antenna IMO to get is the RCA omni-directional "HDTV" antenna and the Phillips Indoor-Outdoor antenna. Both of them come with detachable amplifiers.

Most if not the majority of TV stations are going to "moved" their signals to the UHF band. There will be some like WSYX here in Columbus Ohio is operating on VHF 13 for its digital signal and have an application to moved to UHF 48. Then the local Azteca America affiliate have an displacement application to moved to UHF 25 or flash-cut to digital on UHF 48.

The only Monster accessory I have is one of there Surge protectors. I got one at an local Radio Shack outlet store still sealed in its original packaging for 60 dollars.

 

[TheRover]

At Wal Mart today I saw a main isle display of the RCA flat amplified antenna. ($27)

There were lots of them, maybe a 100.

Perhaps there won't be an antenna shortage after all....

 

[w9wi]

Well I do get great DTV reception and finally found a spot so I can pick up Columbus Ohio (so far) low power digital CA station. The best antenna IMO to get is the RCA omni-directional "HDTV" antenna and the Phillips Indoor-Outdoor antenna. Both of them come with detachable amplifiers.

The best antenna you can get is a separate Yagi for each channel of interest, on a tall tower and aimed at the desired station. Of course, for most of us that's seriously impractical!

More seriously, it's always best to use an outdoor antenna if at all possible. An "outdoor" antenna installed in the attic is usually the next best option. An amplifier is a very poor substitute for a proper antenna.

 

[anotherguyTN]

The best antenna you can get is a separate Yagi for each channel of interest, on a tall tower and aimed at the desired station. Of course, for most of us that's seriously impractical!

Is it even possible to get antennas of that type now? I'd seen them mentioned at times but have never actually seen one, either in a catalog or on the web.

 

[w9wi]

The best antenna you can get is a separate Yagi for each channel of interest, on a tall tower and aimed at the desired station. Of course, for most of us that's seriously impractical!

Is it even possible to get antennas of that type now? I'd seen them mentioned at times but have never actually seen one, either in a catalog or on the web.

Yes, and somewhat to my surprise they're even still available in consumer versions:
http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/cutchannel.pdf
http://www.starkelectronic.com/btp1.htm

(I'd expected they were now something only commercial users -- cable systems -- could get.....)

 

[kenrayc]

There is no such thing as an "analog" or "digital" antenna. Radio waves are radio waves. An antenna is an antenna.

G

There kind of is a difference, Radioshack has new antennas designed for High VHF 7-13 and UHF only since the lower VHF will eventually disappear these outdoor antenna don't have those huge low VHF elements,but a regular existing VHF and UHF outdoor antenna will work the same on digital as it did on analog. So there really is no difference between a analog and digital antenna.

 

[kenrayc]

One interesting think with my market, Fresno CA is that its a all UHF market analog wise, but some stations moved to VHF digitally KAIL My 7 is one example, but most people have the all UHF 4 Bay antenna on their roof, I live very close to the transmitters so I have no problem getting VHF digital signals on a UHF antenna except KNSO that is temporarly using channel 5 and will move to channel 11 6/12.

 

[w9wi]

Radioshack has new antennas designed for High VHF 7-13 and UHF only since the lower VHF will eventually disappear these outdoor antenna don't have those huge low VHF elements,

That is a dangerous assumption.

That antenna will work fine in many (most) markets. However, if you buy one in Nashville you won't be able to get CBS. NBC will be missing in Memphis, Albany, and Las Vegas.

=============================

I answer viewer DTV calls for a station. We're encountering two (related) types of call I wasn't expecting:

- People are actually watching some pretty horrible analog signals. Signals so fuzzy they can't read titles.

- People are excessively optimistic about what they're going to receive with an indoor antenna.

(I took two calls last week from people who expected to receive digital signals with rabbit ears at locations more than 75 miles from the tower. One was actually receiving an analog signal! - though it was nearly unintelligible)

 

[vchimpanzee]

This was one reason I was hoping they'd delay the switch.

Last year, I was afraid to buy an antenna and find out it didn't work. And I surely was going to need an outdoor antenna, so I had to figure out who would install it.

But Sears didn't selll them. The man there said someone in my area had bought an indoor antenna he sold and got all the stations I wanted. I didn't buy it then because I didn't have a converter box. Bad idea. I had a hard time getting a converter box because my address is a P.O. Box. Same reason i haven't yet gotten a cable bill, but I just remembered to pay that.

Once I had the converter boxes, I went to Sears. One antenna left of the type I needed! And they haven't had any of that type since. Fortunately, it was 45 dB, which is what I needed given the pixilation problems I had on the one station (according to this site, that will end June 12) after several weeks. I had no other real problems, though, so I haven't needed to resort to an outdoor antenna yet. For recording from a specific channel, cable was cheaper for the stations I could get with that (and I would likely need cable given my distance from some of those stations), since the VCRs I already had can't be set to record digital channels. Only whatever channel the converter box is already on. Or you can even change in the middle of recording!

I went to Radio Shack and almost got an outdoor antenna until I found out its cost. I got their best indoor antenna instead, but it's only 22 dB. Given the problems I've had, that may not be enough. I have to hope the one station I need it for is strong enough, but I won't know until June 12. The channel isn't on cable and I can't test it because it's moving (unless, a thread here says, I get up at 2 in the morning). My main reason for needing an extra TV, besides the fact I got a converter box coupon for it, is that sometimes I'm watching one station and taping three. But the time of this one show means I'll likely forget to change the channel, so I want one TV set to one and one to another. Plus I have to have the antenna for one channel set for VHF, and the other for UHF.

 

[kenglish]

"Adding more db's" of amplifier gain is not going to help in most cases. Amplifier gain is a poor substitute for antenna gain. A good outdoor antenna is always better than an indoor antenna, although many people can get by with an indoor one.

Amplified antennas are going to add quite a bit more noise and distortion to your signal, and if you didn't have a good enough signal without the amp, it's not going to make a bad signal better.

 

[KeithE4]

"Adding more db's" of amplifier gain is not going to help in most cases. Amplifier gain is a poor substitute for antenna gain. A good outdoor antenna is always better than an indoor antenna, although many people can get by with an indoor one.

Amplified antennas are going to add quite a bit more noise and distortion to your signal, and if you didn't have a good enough signal without the amp, it's not going to make a bad signal better.

And if you have one or more strong signals, they could overload the amp, or mix together (if there are two or more) and cause all kinds of havoc, possibly obliterating the weak signals.

Between the noise generated in the active devices in the amp, plus the possibility of overload caused by strong signals, I believe an amp should be used only when absolutely necessary. Many of these consumer-grade amps are poorly designed and use cheap devices. Their noise figures and intermod performance is usually not very good, especially at UHF.

Most urban areas don't need an amp.