Any 50,000 Watt AM Stations in Florida?

[jmtillery]

They never protected Cuba

Yeah they did, whether the Cuban station was listed or not, 'INZ had a null going straight into downtown Miami.

There was never a Cuban notification for 940, nor any protection rights in the 1942 final NARBA plan. Nothing was added after that, with the only significant change to NARBA being the 540 clear allocation to Mexico along with Canada.

940, however, required, like the Canadian clears, protection of the entire Mexican border. So the protection extended from Chetumal to Tijuana, a very wide arc. Of course, the notified user was XEQ and the protection applied to it, too.

We were told to never run the day pattern at 10 KW. If we had to run 10 KW, always use the night pattern. We were still officially abiding by NARBA but did not really care about Cuba. The day pattern consisted of a three tower endfire array running east/west with the strongest radiation going between NNE and NE and between SSE and SE with a second smaller lobe going due west. In stead of going omnidirectional, it would have been nice if they could have rephased those three towers for a broad north/south pattern. As for their night protections, they also pull in for WMAC, Macon (Guy Gannett Broadcasting was considering buying the then WMAZ and doing a WOWO number on them), and a bit toward WIPR, San Juan. Their night pattern shows a null right at San Juan.

I'm guessing that the null towards San Juan was just a sympathetic null; with a three tower in line array, the protection towards Mexico and XEQ would be mirrored on the other side of the pattern. Since that is basically water, there was likely no justification for building a parallelogram 6 tower array or putting in a dogleg to increase on the less sensitive side of the pattern. WIPR is strongly directional, so it required minimal protection if any.

According to the FCC data base, WIPR-AM operates at 10kw-U with two towers. The directional configuration appears to have a pattern sending most of the signal away from Florida with an East, Southeast pattern. It is interesting that a pattern of that sort can be accomplished with only two towers although it also appears WIPR-AM covers at least two thirds or Puerto Rico with a primary signal.

In a comparison-contrast observation, WOSO-AM 1030 with its 10kw-U three tower directional configuration appears to have a more critical pattern than WIPR, covering about half of Puerto Rico with a primary signal.

 

[Ai4i]

I'm guessing that the null toward San Juan was just a sympathetic null...there was likely no justification for building a parallelogram 6 tower array or putting in a dogleg to increase on the less sensitive side of the pattern. WIPR is strongly directional, so it required minimal protection if any.

You are confusing the day pattern with the night pattern.
Here is what the WINZ facility has consisted of:
A six tower parallelogram for night time operation plus one tower smack dab in the middle.
The parallelogram has always been used at night, with nulls at Macon, Canada, Mexico, and San Juan. They ran 10.5 KW when I was there.
The two farthest elements of the parallelogram plus the tower in the middle for the old day pattern. They ran 43.5 KW when I was there.
A null due north produced less than 33 mv/m at the old FCC monitoring station in the day.
There is no way they would have a sympathetic null due south toward the heart of Miami if Cuba were not an issue.
The one tower in the middle was the reference non-DA tower and is likely the one used these "days".

I suspect that WIPR and WINZ have nulls toward each other because both stations upgraded their facilities over the years or WINZ just happens to be in the same direction from San Juan to some other station on 940, perhaps Macon.

 

[Ai4i]

Oh, I forgot this.
I walked across that field and measured those base currents plenty of times.
Given enough RF, coils make great tweeters!

 

[HGR1290]

I bet those people on NW 40th Ct get good night service....

 

[Ai4i]

I bet those people on NW 40th Ct get good night service....

Yeah, but the ones just west of and just north of the station need to use radios with BFO's.

 

[davideduardo]

There is no way they would have a sympathetic null due south toward the heart of Miami if Cuba were not an issue.

I looked at all the stuff on NARBA I have, including the frequency reassignments, both pre and post 1942's implementation. Cuba had no station on 940, and had no protection for future assignments on 940. It was, from the beginning, a shared Mexican and Canadian clear. In fact, Cuba tried not to assign anything on any of the Mexican clears in the pre-Castro era.

I suspect that WIPR and WINZ have nulls toward each other because both stations upgraded their facilities over the years or WINZ just happens to be in the same direction from San Juan to some other station on 940, perhaps Macon.

WIPR launched as a post-NARBA 10 kw station, direction, with the CP granted in 1949. Like all PR stations with 10 kw or more (which meant that they were in San Juan or its municipalities), they protected the Sabana Seca FCC monitoring station day and night. So, since all PR directionals protected towards North America in one way or another (WIPR protects, at night, principally, per the CE, the Canadian border and Mexico) the located as far to the West of SJ as possible to shoot all the night power over the market. WIPR, as the station of the government, could afford high power when few other stations could justify it... and it was non-directional day and always directional at night. By going west, they avoided nulls towards Sabana Seca (Dorado) and put more power over the SJ area, much needed due to the horrible conductivity on the Island.

Keep in mind that San Juan is 900 miles, give or take, from Miami. The day operation of WINZ would not have affected it... more likely one of the 940's that came and went in the Dominican Republic might have.

 

[davideduardo]

According to the FCC data base, WIPR-AM operates at 10kw-U with two towers. The directional configuration appears to have a pattern sending most of the signal away from Florida with an East, Southeast pattern. It is interesting that a pattern of that sort can be accomplished with only two towers although it also appears WIPR-AM covers at least two thirds or Puerto Rico with a primary signal.

WIPR protected the Sabana Seca FCC monitoring facitlity, day and night. It's secondary protection was to Mexico and Canada, and it was licensed as 10 kw fulltime before WINZ Hollywood was anything but a 1kw station.

WIPR does not cover the San Juan metro any too well, and gets very little signal inland; in Caguas it is unlistenably noisy.

In a comparison-contrast observation, WOSO-AM 1030 with its 10kw-U three tower directional configuration appears to have a more critical pattern than WIPR, covering about half of Puerto Rico with a primary signal.

WOSO is at a wretched transmitter site, sunk in a valley, and in an area of horrible conductivity... mostly rock and mountain. It misses a big part of the SJ metro at night and is not too swift in the daytime in many areas.

Puerto Rico has almost no flat land, with mountainous terrain making up all but a narrow coastal plain, sometimes less than 10 miles wide. Add to that the 100 kw and 50 kw signals from coastal venezuela, and AM is even pretty wretched in the daytime in southern PR, and horrible everywhere at night.

 

[Ai4i]

I looked at all the stuff on NARBA I have, including the frequency reassignments, both pre and post 1942's implementation. Cuba had no station on 940, and had no protection for future assignments on 940. It was, from the beginning, a shared Mexican and Canadian clear. In fact, Cuba tried not to assign anything on any of the Mexican clears in the pre-Castro era.

Why do you suppose they would have a null into the center of their market if the only place in that same direction had nothing to protect. I can think of no reasonable explanation. A sympathetic null is not a reasonable explanation.

 

[davideduardo]

Why do you suppose they would have a null into the center of their market if the only place in that same direction had nothing to protect. I can think of no reasonable explanation. A sympathetic null is not a reasonable explanation.

To create a non-symetrical pattern woud have required a parallelogram or some kind of dog-leg array. Perhaps, when the station moved to Miami from Hollywood, the economics did not support a more expensive array.

There was never a station on 940 in Cuba prior to WINZ upping power, and there never was one until after Castro abrogated NARBA.

 

[Ai4i]

They (WINZ) were actually at that same location from the start in the 1950's.
In the middle 1970's they built an entire new array on the same property with seven (7) towers, the night parallelogram plus one tower in the middle to use in conjunction with the two farthest towers of the parallelogram in the day. Also, two elements of the parallelogram were directly north and south of the center element. Those three towers coiuld have been used to null the FCC station and send a broad cardioid pattern due south. Or, those three plus the two farthers ones in the parallelogram, which in fact they did use, could have produced a fairly omni-directional pattern but with a super deep null right at the FCC station. Again, in no way would they ever have placed a null into downtown Miami were it not required.

 

[Hotseat]

In Alabama, all I can get out of Florida is WAQI. I do remember during Hurricane Andrew 940 WINZ stayed full power and boomed out.

 

[Ai4i]

WAQI has a nice day signal but they are so directional away from WOR at night that while I can see their tower lights from two miles away, I can position my car in either of two nulls such that without audio, a cacaphony of noise (Cuban grinders and maybe WOR) is heard and as someone speaks, it is pure DSB supressed carrier. Both locations are within a few dozen feet of 172nd Ave on Pembroke Rd.

 

[klutch00]

RADICAL PROPOSAL:
With CINW and CBF vacating their respective frequencies (940 and 690) in Montreal, I'd like to suggest that we make Canada an ultimatum: either get one of the existing Montreal or nearby stations like CJAD, CKGM or whomever to move to the frequencies in question or they lose them to a country willing to utilize those frequencies. Under such a scenario, I'd like to suggest that WOKV and WINZ be granted the equivalent of a class I-B status. I think Florida could use at least two real clear channel stations.

On a different note; yeah, I remember listening to the old WPDQ here in Maryland during the Hugo disaster in 1989.

 

[davideduardo]

RADICAL PROPOSAL:
With CINW and CBF vacating their respective frequencies (940 and 690) in Montreal, I'd like to suggest that we make Canada an ultimatum: either get one of the existing Montreal or nearby stations like CJAD, CKGM or whomever to move to the frequencies in question or they lose them to a country willing to utilize those frequencies. Under such a scenario, I'd like to suggest that WOKV and WINZ be granted the equivalent of a class I-B status. I think Florida could use at least two real clear channel stations.

The real issue is that doing this kind of change would have to be met with interest by licencees. With the current state of AM, I don't think there is much interest in spending money on changes.

Keep in mind that 690 and 940 are given by treaty to Canada, and it is not the FCC, but the Department of State that would have to negotiate a release of the "real estate" whether there is a building on it or not.

 

[w9wi]

The real issue is that doing this kind of change would have to be met with interest by licencees. With the current state of AM, I don't think there is much interest in spending money on changes.

Keep in mind that 690 and 940 are given by treaty to Canada, and it is not the FCC, but the Department of State that would have to negotiate a release of the "real estate" whether there is a building on it or not.

Would it be necessary to change anything at these stations? They're already running 10kw or more fulltime. Couldn't they just be granted Class A status and the accompanying protection to their existing 0.5mV/m-50% skywave contours, without having to make any technical changes?

Thing is, there are other existing domestic stations which I'd imagine are interfering with these Florida stations' 0.5mV/m nighttime skywave. Stations like New Orleans (both frequencies), Birmingham (690), and Macon GA. (940) (there are others) I can't imagine any of these stations would have been authorized, at least not at night, if the two Florida stations had had Class A status. You're not going to be able to roll them back.

And then, of course, there *is* the international issue.

 

[Ai4i]

The only US stations that could benefit might be the ones closest to Montreal; letting more signal go into Canada if a deal can be struck. With all the thinly populated area north of the forty ninth parallel, one would expect the Canuks to rely on blowtorch AM's.