On the "Classic Radio" board I shared a story about carts. That brings me to this question. Does anybody still use them?... even just for giggles or historical fun? At one of the stations where I hang my hat, silly me took a Broadcast Electronics record/play cart deck, and had it repaired. In the Cleveland, Ohio area we are so fortunate to have a top notch, professional gear repair Engineer who runs his "Wizard Sound" business. Anyway, I reinstalled it in the production area tied to the station's mid-1970s AMPRO board which was the main air board many moons ago. I put the theme music for a weekly segment on a nice "new" cart... one I had that had never been used ... and for fun, use it in the production of that segment. At the other station, I've used a cart deck to dub some otherwise hard-to-find songs onto MiniDisc, for dubbing to CD, and found some interesting sound from the station's past to be dubbed over for historical purposes.
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Any carts today?
- Thread starter johnbasalla
- Start date
Last time I was there a couple of years ago WGHT 1500 in NJ was still using 6 BE dura-track and phase-track cart decks. No automation system either. Carts and CD's. I can't believe for the price of a computer and play out system, anyone would still use them as their main system for jingles, spots and even some songs. 12 years ago I was introduced to non-linear digital editing and Audiovault and haven't looked back.
I know how to service and align cart machines, and wind carts. But I really don't miss them other than having something to throw at the wall when the tape gets eaten! Carts made nice projectiles to burn off that moment of anger. It's kind of hard to throw a rack mounted PC at the wall and then have to explain why you're off the air
I know how to service and align cart machines, and wind carts. But I really don't miss them other than having something to throw at the wall when the tape gets eaten! Carts made nice projectiles to burn off that moment of anger. It's kind of hard to throw a rack mounted PC at the wall and then have to explain why you're off the air
There are stations that still use them. Several months ago, someone posted a picture on another engineering board of a radio station who proudly still used carts. When I pointed out the cost effectivness of this, I was the one roundly criticized. I made the same point WNTI and to my surprise, nobody saw my point of view. If you want to use carts from a historic point of view, fine. Why don't we use wire recorders, too. However, you can get an off the shelf computer and play out program for around $2500, why would you want the continued maintainenance of a cart system and having to pay someone to sit there and run the board.
I have an Otari CTM-10 player/recorder in my production studio which I keep for posterity and transcription purposes.
Every now and then I will find a cart or box of carts from a station somewhere which are packed with sounds from
the past - ads, jingles and more.
This is broadcasting history. I enjoy preserving it.
While decommissioning a station a couple of years ago, I ended up with around 200 carts, plus the carousels they were loaded
on. They're all in storage while I figure out what to do with them.
Probably end up donating them to a historical society station.
Every now and then I will find a cart or box of carts from a station somewhere which are packed with sounds from
the past - ads, jingles and more.
This is broadcasting history. I enjoy preserving it.
While decommissioning a station a couple of years ago, I ended up with around 200 carts, plus the carousels they were loaded
on. They're all in storage while I figure out what to do with them.
Probably end up donating them to a historical society station.
While I can't see the wisdom of running carts today, I wholeheartedly salute the owner who still has a live jock in the control room 24/7 playing requests for local listeners & responding to what the community wants/needs at any given hour. Never have understood why a station owner has no problem paying someone $50 an hour to mow the lawn at his $300,000 home while flatly refusing pay a reasonably decent jock $10-12 an hour to play the hits at this $3,000,000 radio station. Guess it's because they don't make a AudioVault Lawn tractor...yet.Bengalsfan said:
Amen to that! It never made much sense to me an an engineering guy to automate people out of work when it cost more money in many cases and performed worse than a human. Many things can be automated fairly easily and with great results, but there are some things that just shouldn't be automated. Sometimes it's more cost effective to just pay someone a small sum of money to do the work really. Management that always demand stuff be automated as their default battle cry really $crew themselves in the long run.
I have a Spotmaster 5-spot deck that was salvaged during the cleanup of a local AM transmitter building. The bottom deck was (and still is) missing but the other 4 decks play, although they don't always stop like they're supposed to.
I also have a Spotmaster single-play deck with the lever that holds the cart in place.
Not that I use them much, but I have some jingles and 600-plus oldies on cart that I acquired over the years. Some of the material on cart still needs to be transferred over to CD.
I also have a Spotmaster single-play deck with the lever that holds the cart in place.
Not that I use them much, but I have some jingles and 600-plus oldies on cart that I acquired over the years. Some of the material on cart still needs to be transferred over to CD.
Rick Dees might be all digital now but he was a fan of his carts and the RCA BC-7 console. Fred Norris of Howard Stern fame was using carts later than others.
radiorob2.0 said:
I can attest that Dees still has his BC7A, and carts, in his Kentucky studio.
I know I'm inviting a heap of derision for this. Nonetheless...
While we use full digital automation for most on-air functions and production is all done digitally, we still have cart equipment in all studios - which is in daily use.
We have simply found that for some of our live, local talk and information shows and our huge commitment to local sports - we do more than 100 college hoops games regionally every season, plus everything from lax to soccer to thoroughbred racing calls - carts are easier, faster and more versatile for audio storage with our live and highly professional in-studio operators.
We always use live board ops for each and every game to provide a layer of redundancy in the event of technical, line or other problems. Commercials, certain specific audio cuts and other special uses are, believe it or not, more convenient on cart - as opposed to navigating a computer screen with a mouse.
We keep acquiring retired cart machines and carts from stations who just want to unload them. So we have "parts cars" in house for motors, heads, switches and other stuff. We also have a stock of motor bearings I acquired from a local supplier who was clearing out stock.
They function fine, suit our purposes, and the price is right. The listeners and sponsors don't care. So we'll probably continue to use carts for the forseeable future - albeit in a limited way.
While we use full digital automation for most on-air functions and production is all done digitally, we still have cart equipment in all studios - which is in daily use.
We have simply found that for some of our live, local talk and information shows and our huge commitment to local sports - we do more than 100 college hoops games regionally every season, plus everything from lax to soccer to thoroughbred racing calls - carts are easier, faster and more versatile for audio storage with our live and highly professional in-studio operators.
We always use live board ops for each and every game to provide a layer of redundancy in the event of technical, line or other problems. Commercials, certain specific audio cuts and other special uses are, believe it or not, more convenient on cart - as opposed to navigating a computer screen with a mouse.
We keep acquiring retired cart machines and carts from stations who just want to unload them. So we have "parts cars" in house for motors, heads, switches and other stuff. We also have a stock of motor bearings I acquired from a local supplier who was clearing out stock.
They function fine, suit our purposes, and the price is right. The listeners and sponsors don't care. So we'll probably continue to use carts for the forseeable future - albeit in a limited way.
The ergonomic qualities of carts...I could buy into that.
Here's an idea to "run up the flagpole": Instead of repacking carts with tapes, repack them with thumb drives. These could dock into "players" which could be just modified PCs running a very basic audio program that would be independent of any automation system.
Just don't ask me to do this, (BAD PUN ALERT) I'd be "all thumbs!"
Here's an idea to "run up the flagpole": Instead of repacking carts with tapes, repack them with thumb drives. These could dock into "players" which could be just modified PCs running a very basic audio program that would be independent of any automation system.
Just don't ask me to do this, (BAD PUN ALERT) I'd be "all thumbs!"
I use them. I've got them, better said, for amusement. For me "carts" and it's machines are the most iconic piece of radio studio broadcast equipment ever made. Sadly gone by now but still loved for those who think the same as me.
I can swap cart machines whenever I want... BE 5300 triple decker, ITC Delta 3d or 6 singles or even a Harris Criterion 90 3d are the one's to choose from. All of them came from national networks, the ITC Delta triple decker (with record module) came from CBC-Canada. And, of course, loads of carts... Does anyone have those larger ones getting dust?
I'm from and living in Portugal... yes, Cristiano Ronaldo contry ;-)
I can swap cart machines whenever I want... BE 5300 triple decker, ITC Delta 3d or 6 singles or even a Harris Criterion 90 3d are the one's to choose from. All of them came from national networks, the ITC Delta triple decker (with record module) came from CBC-Canada. And, of course, loads of carts... Does anyone have those larger ones getting dust?
I'm from and living in Portugal... yes, Cristiano Ronaldo contry ;-)
I wasn't suggesting replacing all the jocks with the computer, when I was at a former station I replaced the carts with a computer but we still kept everyone in the studio. My point was the maintenance/ease of use costs are much better with a computer system. I certainly don't want to sit there, bulk erasing, splice finding and dubbing spots to carts when I can put it in the drop box and have it ingested into the automation system in a few seconds. Without even leaving my seat. Or I could load it from my home studio, or in a hotel on another continent. Traffic/continuity is easily accounted for with a play event log. There are no costs for carts or tape, both of which are scarce. Then there are the parts for the machines themselves, both expensive and scarce. When you can get a 1TB hard drive that can store everything, and back it up on other 1TB hard drives for $90 a pop, it makes no sense to me to have the pain in the *** of carts when there are much better options. They're neat for historical purposes; just as none of us drive around every day and rely on a Model T Ford for primary transportation.
Then there is a sound quality issue... even the worst play out system is better than a cart deck. No phase errors, bias errors, missed trip tones, dirty heads...
Then there is a sound quality issue... even the worst play out system is better than a cart deck. No phase errors, bias errors, missed trip tones, dirty heads...
I came up with the title for this thread because at the time, I was "singing" in my head the classic World War II Treasury Department song "Any Bonds Today?" which encouraged Americans to buy War Bonds.
I have a few big carts that can hold a full 30-minute program, others that can hold 15 minutes. I worked at an almost fully automated NPR affiliate station. I could see running spots, and 5 minute programs on cart, but never could understand the value of a 30-minute cart. Just run the reel. Why lower its quality with another generation dub down? I remember putting a 15 minute program from reel onto a cart and one of the Supervisors called in wondering why it sounded a little muddy. Reels were part of the automation system anyway.
We got a bunch of music carts from a former oldies station. There are some real gems on them. For example, there are two songs by the Cleveland Rock band The Choir whose hit was "It's Cold Outside". That was a big deal in this geographic area, while becoming a modest/minor hit nationwide. Anyway these other two songs are quite hard to find and in excellent shape are valuable. I played one of them off of the cart on the 60s/70s show some years ago and immediately got a call from someone asking where I found those records. There's also some minor hits that may not be available for download yet (or ever).
We got a bunch of music carts from a former oldies station. There are some real gems on them. For example, there are two songs by the Cleveland Rock band The Choir whose hit was "It's Cold Outside". That was a big deal in this geographic area, while becoming a modest/minor hit nationwide. Anyway these other two songs are quite hard to find and in excellent shape are valuable. I played one of them off of the cart on the 60s/70s show some years ago and immediately got a call from someone asking where I found those records. There's also some minor hits that may not be available for download yet (or ever).
Just to clarify: WYSL's cart machines are almost never, save for rare instances, used to play music. Our format is news, talk and sports and the carted material consists generally of spots, sound effects, intro-outro-rejoin elements, jingles, legal IDs and the like.
We just find that in a very fast-paced play-by-play: when the announcer goes to a break, for example, and during the commercials orders the operator to bring him back ASAP because the action is resuming, it's a lot easier to simply not play the remaining loaded carts than it is to de-select files on the screen, or drag or de-click icons.
We just find that in a very fast-paced play-by-play: when the announcer goes to a break, for example, and during the commercials orders the operator to bring him back ASAP because the action is resuming, it's a lot easier to simply not play the remaining loaded carts than it is to de-select files on the screen, or drag or de-click icons.
C
Charlie
Guest
A story from across the pond: At the end of 2006, me and a friend bought the entire remaining stock of Audiopak AA3+AA4 Carts from a UK dealer - about 600 of varying lengths from 100sec to 5.5min. It took a 4x4 vehicle to get the lot home. We paid (wait for it)... £50 for the lot
Talking of spare parts, redundancy and the SD card idea - Did the USA ever catch on to the 3.5" floppy-disk based digital units from the likes of Sonifex (Discart) and ASC (DART) ? They were also capable of using 2.88/4MB ED disks and you'd get a couple of minutes (spread across multiple "cuts") out of one of those at 44.1KHz. I bought a triple-stack player for my home studio a few year's back - it made a more reliable alternative to NAB Carts and you could buy the disks online in bulk.
The triple-stack Sonifex model looked like this:
http://www.charliedavy.co.uk/sonifex_discart.jpg
I've still got 2 ITC 99 machines and a BE triple-stack which I'm told came off Laser558.
Talking of spare parts, redundancy and the SD card idea - Did the USA ever catch on to the 3.5" floppy-disk based digital units from the likes of Sonifex (Discart) and ASC (DART) ? They were also capable of using 2.88/4MB ED disks and you'd get a couple of minutes (spread across multiple "cuts") out of one of those at 44.1KHz. I bought a triple-stack player for my home studio a few year's back - it made a more reliable alternative to NAB Carts and you could buy the disks online in bulk.
The triple-stack Sonifex model looked like this:
http://www.charliedavy.co.uk/sonifex_discart.jpg
I've still got 2 ITC 99 machines and a BE triple-stack which I'm told came off Laser558.
Didn't Fidelipac or somebody try the floppy-disc cart idea about 20 years ago? I can't recall which manufacturer did, but every report I recall was to the effect that the results were disastrous. Whether the underlying design or the software or the build-quality were bad, or some combination of the three, I heard nothing but horror stories.
If I'm remembering - admittedly a stretch these days - you couldn't get enough audio on the individual floppies to be worthwhile. There was no mp3 compression back then.
If I'm remembering - admittedly a stretch these days - you couldn't get enough audio on the individual floppies to be worthwhile. There was no mp3 compression back then.
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