Any displaced stations mapping to their current ACTUAL channel numbers?

[Ultimajock]

...okeh, folks, it's coming up on a dozen weeks into the post-DTV switchover era. Are there any U.S. or across-the-border stations that have changed from their old analogue channel to a new channel for their DTV signal (I'm suspecting the most likely candidates would be from analogue Channels 2 thru 5 and 51 thru 69) that are not mapping to their old analogue channel number for their virtual channel display and showing the current channel number instead? I'm not including -CA or -LP that supposedly retransmit another full-power channel, like Phoenix' KAZT-CA, which maps to 7.x in order to "reflect" its allegedly retransmitting KAZT-TV/7 Prescott, although KAZT-CA's signal itself has never appeared on Channel 7 from a Phoenix-area transmitter and programming for the Prescott station actually originates from KAZT's Phoenix offices...

 

[fybush]

The law (well, the ATSC digital television standard, adopted into law as part of the FCC's rules under chapter 47 of the Code of Federal Regulations) says that stations are to use their former analog channel numbers as their main channel numbers in the DTV world.

In practice, the FCC appears to be willing to look the other way in the case of stations whose former analog channels were outside the new core spectrum (channels 2-51). Thus we have cases like KAIL-DT in Fresno, analog 53, digital RF 7, virtual channel 7, or WNEU-DT Merrimack NH, analog 60, digital RF 34, virtual channel 34.

Outside of that limited exception, the FCC has been relatively strict about maintaining the virtual channels, for reasons we've examined ad nauseam on this board and elsewhere: let's say I'm WICZ-DT in Binghamton NY, and I've moved from analog 40 to digital RF 8. If I suddenly decide to identify as virtual channel 8, what happens when someone else in the market gets RF 40 allotted to them? The law still says that WICZ should be identifying as virtual 40, and it says the new station should identify as virtual 8.

Off the top of my head, I know of just one station that had its analog channel within the core but is using its new RF channel as its virtual channel. That's WLIO-DT in Lima, Ohio, analog 35, digital RF 8, virtual 8 - and they can get away with it because they also own WOHL-CA in Lima, analog 25, digital RF 35...and thus virtual 35.

 

[tripinva]

KAIL, KBVU, KCVU, KVIQ, KCEN, and there might be more slipping my mind.

- Trip

 

[silverthree]

KMBH was analog 60 but maps to 38.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

Scott/Trip:

An interesting dilemma with these rules has arisen in the Evansville market. Some LPTV stations have been applied for on channels 14, 25, and 44. What's special about those? They're the channels recently vacated by full-power analog signals.

The particular case I'm interested in is the proposed channel 25. WEHT was analog 25 and uses 25 as its virtual channel. But they broadcast on VHF 7. Ok, so the new LPTV 25 would identify as 7, right? Wrong (I hope!). RF 28 is WTVW, which was analog 7 and continues to broadcast on that virtual channel.

Would that force the proposed LPTV broadcasting on UHF 25 to identify as virtual channel 28?

 

[dave73]

Until this past Friday, WGBO-DT was using their RF channel 38 as their virtual channel of 38.1. WCPX-TV used to be on analog 38, but is now on digital 43, but also uses 38.1 as their virtual channel. Because of that, my Magnavox digital box had both of them listed as 38.1. I would get WGBO first, then WCPX second when I hit the channel up button. I know if WYIN could get away with it, they wouldn't use 56 as their virtual channel, as they use WYIN-DT 17 in their station identification. For their virtual channel, they still use 56.1. WLS-TV is the only station in Chicago that is on their actual channel, since they couldn't stay on 52, they had to go back to 7, and it comes up as 7.1. So they're actually legal in that case.

I wonder at times if WYCC would prefer to ID their virtual channel as their RF channel, as they use in their station Identification, WYCC 20 DT 21.

 

[kenrayc]

One situation that's confusing is in San Francisco KTVU FOX 2 is using digital RF 44, virtual channel 2.1, KBCW CW 44 , is using digital RF 45 and Virtual channel 44.1, I have heard these stations are confusing on some boxes. KTVU should either swap digital channels or the FCC should let let KBCW use 45.1 for there virtual channel.


On my Digital Stream box in Fresno KGPE 47 , Digital Rf 32, virtual 47.1 is only displayed as 32.3, when punching in 47 it comes up no signal, so to get 47.1 I have to punch in the Digital RF channel 32.

This was already mentioned KAIL here in Fresno is formally 53 analog, is using there digital RF channel 7 as there ID and virtual channel, KNSO channel 51.1 is using Digital rf channel 5, but has app for channel 11 and is trying to get the FCC to allow them to map there virtual channel to 11 to match there Comcast cable channel,

Here another situation in Fresno KGPE 47.1 is on Cable channel 7 and has been for 35 years , Kail 7.1 is still on cable 13, with is a little confusing now so if your talking about channel 7 is it KAIL or KGPE, I don't think KGPE will ever give up channel 7 on cable.

 

[mjlarochelle]

KCEN-TV in Temple, Texas was on Channel 6 previously and has been using both RF 9 and virtual 9 since the transition. They rebranded from NBC 6 to KCEN 9 in the process. They made the change on February 17th, although KCEN-DT had been on RF 9 since 2002.

 

[dhett]

Can anyone in the Mobile-Pensacola area comment on new station WDPM, which signed on earlier this year? The Daystar station was supposed to sign on RF 18, but its previous owner was able to get the RF channel changed to 23, which was formerly occupied by WSRE. WSRE is RF 31 and VC 23.1, so WDPM should be RF 23 and VC 31.1, right? Or maybe VC 18.1, since that was their original RF channel? Last I heard, they were using VC 4.1. Is that still true? If so, that makes them the real oddball in DTV Land, and completely in conflict with the FCC. If WDPM is still 4.1, then the FCC isn't enforcing their rules as vigorously as we think.

 

[Markxxx]

When you say this how are they mapping?

Normally if I want WYIN Gary, Indiana, I can hit in either 56 or 17. If I hit 56 it shows up as 56.1, if I enter 17.1 it shows up as 56.1

Are you saying that if you hit in 56.1 it would map to 17.1 for example? Or are you saying some stations are just using the actual channel number, in this case 17 and ignoring their virtual number?

I noticed that WYIN has an online ID of 17 but that makes little difference, as many TV stations use their cable channel numbers as online ID and completely ignore their actual channel numbers, be it virtual or acutal.

 

[tripinva]

PT:

That's one possibility. The FCC hasn't strictly enforced that as a rule.

dhett:

WDPM was, indeed, mapping to 4-1. Apparently, the FCC got after them for it, and now they're asking the FCC to use 6-1. I haven't heard anything since then.

- Trip

 

[TexasTom]

An interesting dilemma with these rules has arisen in the Evansville market. Some LPTV stations have been applied for on channels 14, 25, and 44. What's special about those? They're the channels recently vacated by full-power analog signals.

The particular case I'm interested in is the proposed channel 25. WEHT was analog 25 and uses 25 as its virtual channel. But they broadcast on VHF 7. Ok, so the new LPTV 25 would identify as 7, right? Wrong (I hope!). RF 28 is WTVW, which was analog 7 and continues to broadcast on that virtual channel.

Would that force the proposed LPTV broadcasting on UHF 25 to identify as virtual channel 28?

While I'm not sure that the FCC's rules explicitly deal with this situation, I do suspect that your guess is the correct one.

Really, what other alternative is there?

 

[Matt]

Here's an oddity for you . . . .

WLXI-TV in Greensboro, NC was on analog 61 with digital RF on 43 mapping PSIP to 61. Shortly after analog shutdown they changed the PSIP to 43. What is interesting is that their call letters (LXI) are Roman Numerals for 61, and folks there say they're not even thinking about changing the call letters.

 

[Bob E. Nelson]

KCEN-TV in Temple, Texas was on Channel 6 previously and has been using both RF 9 and virtual 9 since the transition. They rebranded from NBC 6 to KCEN 9 in the process. They made the change on February 17th, although KCEN-DT had been on RF 9 since 2002.

1). On their landmark studio site, easily visible off I-35 south of Waco, the big red 6 was simply turned upside down for the new branding.

2). In the FCC rulemaking of February 2001, this statement appears as one of the reasons for granting KCEN's move from its original RF channel 50:

``Moreover, Channel 6 states that viewer identification of a VHF channel 9 operation will be augmented by the fact that KCEN's analog and digital operations would be in the same frequency band.''

 

[willcail]

Here in Columbus Ohio the ony DTV station that broadcqast on the actual RF channel is WDEM CD. The virtual channel and its UHF channel are the same. Hearsay states that W23BZ flash cut to UHF 23 and tis virtual number is going to be 23. I did read that WMFD in Mansfield Ohio started to refer themselves as WMFD DT12 they still showing 68 for its virtual channel. Some of the on screen idents for WHIZ DT is showing UHF 40 and their virtual channel still displaying 18.

 

[Poledo]

WDPM was, indeed, mapping to 4-1. Apparently, the FCC got after them for it, and now they're asking the FCC to use 6-1. I haven't heard anything since then.

- Trip

Interesting. I didn't know they were going for channel 6. The whole idea that channel numbers wouldn't be important after the transition doesn't seem to apply to these folks.
I believe this was originally allocated to Paxon as channel 60. He was never able to get it on the air and the next owner got it reassigned to analog channel 18. Finally, before WDPM signed on, it was changed to digital channel 23.
There a whole lot of possible channel numbers out there for WDPM but they can't seem to find one. Maybe they should just submit an application for channel 1... or maybe they should focus on getting the station on the air and a spot on cable.

 

[vchimpanzee]

The law (well, the ATSC digital television standard, adopted into law as part of the FCC's rules under chapter 47 of the Code of Federal Regulations) says that stations are to use their former analog channel numbers as their main channel numbers in the DTV world.

In practice, the FCC appears to be willing to look the other way in the case of stations whose former analog channels were outside the new core spectrum (channels 2-51). Thus we have cases like KAIL-DT in Fresno, analog 53, digital RF 7, virtual channel 7, or WNEU-DT Merrimack NH, analog 60, digital RF 34, virtual channel 34.

WLXI Greensboro, NC was Channel 61. When I scanned the channels with converter box no. 2, I had an ideal antenna setup and probably good conditions as well, and a mysterious "channel 43" appeared. Converter box no. 1 didn't pick this one up. I haven't watched it because I try to keep both converter boxes on the one channel.

Edit: I knew I should have read the whole thread first.

 

[vchimpanzee]

On a related note, if I want to watch channel 2 on cable, I have to turn to channel 22. If I want to watch digital channel 2, I have to turn to channel 51. It works on converter box no. 2, but I keep that one on channel 8 (which is really 35). But I rarely watch channel 2 since CBS is on channel 3 on cable. And converter box no. 1 stays on channel 48 (which is really channel 33), or sometimes I turn to channel 45 (which is really channel 29).

The TV in the kitchen won't pick up anything because it has a tape stuck in it.

The TV hooked up to TiVo won't pick up anything either, but it tapes all the shows I want and even some I don't, and I can watch them later!