Any DTV DXers??

[KR4BD]

I finally saw some definite E-skip DTV today in Lexington, KY in the form of:

KNOP N.Platte, NE on RF Channel 2
KOTA Rapid City, SD on RF Channel 3

E-skip was also quite strong on the 6 meter ham band (50-54 MHz) as I worked stations all over the U.S. from Oregon to Maine.

My TV DX setup is quite simple...a Sharp 20-inch flatscreen and a small Radio Shack VHF/UHF Yagi up 55 feet.

 

[Darth_vader]

What kind of ATSC receiver are you using? The one built in to the Sharp?

"E-skip was also quite strong on the 6 meter ham band (50-54 MHz) as I worked stations all over the U.S. from Oregon to Maine."

Oh? Sure sounds pretty dead right now.....

 

[KR4BD]

"E-skip was also quite strong on the 6 meter ham band (50-54 MHz) as I worked stations all over the U.S. from Oregon to Maine."

Oh? Sure sounds pretty dead right now.....

What kind of ATSC receiver are you using? The one built in to the Sharp?

I am still hearing 6 meter stations mainly from New England and NE Canada at 10:15 PM here in Lexington....

My TV is a simple Sharp flatscreen I bought at BestBuy about 4 years ago.... The E-skip on TV today was seen between about 6 and 8 PM Lexington time.

 

[Darth_vader]

Okay, that answers the unquestion of where you bought the thing. So what sort of ATSC receiver are you using, an outboard (set-top) box or the one built in to the Sharp?

 

[KR4BD]

Okay, that answers the unquestion of where you bought the thing. So what sort of ATSC receiver are you using, an outboard (set-top) box or the one built in to the Sharp?

It's the one Built IN the TV.... I am not using an external tuner or amplifier... Just a straight TV "off-the-shelf" that nicely fits on a shelf in my hamshack.... You want the model number ??

 

[Darth_vader]

Sure; the model number can help me track one down.

I've actually been meaning to find something reasonably-sized with decent performance (and inexpensive) to pack when I head off to Pendleton (signals propagate really well on that side of the Cascades, so it's a rather good DX spot). My little 7" battery-powered late-1980s Emerson colour TV and the Digitalstream works okay, but is pretty clumsy a setup for travel. A 20" self-contained flatscreen would be a reasonably-sized piece of equipment for that task, and if you're pulling in South Dakota signals in Kentucky with it, it sounds like you have a pretty decently-performing DXing box there.

 

[KR4BD]

It's a Sharp Model LC-20AV7U. It is an ETV (Enhanced TV), not HDTV but came with a built-in, digital tuner. I have done nothing to modify it. The model is probably obsolete now as I bought it about 4 years ago. My 9 year-old antenna is very simple, up 55 feet and fed with about 80 feet of quality RG6 coax.

 

[cd637299]

Welcome to DTV E-skip! If you got KOTA, here is one on DT 3 I believe also in SD, KDLO.

I'm near Miami; KOTA & KNOP are too far for me, I suppose. My farthest DTV via Es, which I see a few times each year, is WHBF 4 IL.

cd

 

[gar hi]

It's a Sharp Model LC-20AV7U. It is an ETV (Enhanced TV), not HDTV but came with a built-in, digital tuner. I have done nothing to modify it. The model is probably obsolete now as I bought it about 4 years ago. My 9 year-old antenna is very simple, up 55 feet and fed with about 80 feet of quality RG6 coax.

I have the same TV you do! Though it's not HD, I think it gives a clearer picture than HDTV for older shows and movies that were not shot in HD and made on regular film.

I've always wondered something about DTV and the exact frequencies they use.

When it first started, I thought that even though they use the channel numbers 2-6, for example, that they are actually up in the UHF band.

But then I hear all the valid reports of E Skip on DTV.

So what are the exact frequencies in Mhz that correspond to the DTV channels?

 

[w9wi]

So what are the exact frequencies in Mhz that correspond to the DTV channels?

It depends on what market you're in. In Rapid City, South Dakota, channel 3 is 54-60MHz. In Madison, Wisconsin, there is also a channel 3 station -- it's 686-692MHz. Channel 4 in Nashville is 192-198MHz; in Atlantic City, it's 66-72MHz.

===

DTV uses the same frequency bands analog did. However, those bands are numbered differently. In analog, the table relating a frequency band to a channel number was part of the FCC regulations. In digital, the station transmits a signal telling the TV what channel number to assign to that station's frequency.

Most DXers, and the FCC, often refer to a DTV frequency band by the same number that frequency band had in the analog bands. For example, channel 4 in Nashville operates, again, on the frequency band 192-198MHz; in the analog days, that frequency band was numbered "channel 10", so this station is listed as that channel.

 

[KR4BD]

It's a Sharp Model LC-20AV7U. It is an ETV (Enhanced TV), not HDTV but came with a built-in, digital tuner. I have done nothing to modify it. The model is probably obsolete now as I bought it about 4 years ago. My 9 year-old antenna is very simple, up 55 feet and fed with about 80 feet of quality RG6 coax.

I have the same TV you do! Though it's not HD, I think it gives a clearer picture than HDTV for older shows and movies that were not shot in HD and made on regular film.

Ya know what, I bought this TV BECAUSE IT DID HAVE a MUCH SHARPER and BRIGHTER picture than any of the smaller 19" HDTVs they had playing on the shelf. I have been happy with mine despite the fact that it is EDTV (Enhanced Def TV) as opposed to the supposedly superior HDTV models. I also paid about $300 for it about 4 years ago. Today, you can get comparable for much less!

 

[gar hi]

So what are the exact frequencies in Mhz that correspond to the DTV channels?

It depends on what market you're in. In Rapid City, South Dakota, channel 3 is 54-60MHz. In Madison, Wisconsin, there is also a channel 3 station -- it's 686-692MHz. Channel 4 in Nashville is 192-198MHz; in Atlantic City, it's 66-72MHz.

===

DTV uses the same frequency bands analog did. However, those bands are numbered differently. In analog, the table relating a frequency band to a channel number was part of the FCC regulations. In digital, the station transmits a signal telling the TV what channel number to assign to that station's frequency.

Most DXers, and the FCC, often refer to a DTV frequency band by the same number that frequency band had in the analog bands. For example, channel 4 in Nashville operates, again, on the frequency band 192-198MHz; in the analog days, that frequency band was numbered "channel 10", so this station is listed as that channel.

Thanks so much for explaining this all to me. Now it makes sense.

So let's say there's an E Skip opening of up to 80 Mhz in a path from here to New York, for example.

I'd have to find out what actual frequencies their DTV channels 2 4 and 5 use to see whether it would be worth looking for any reception?

Ya know what, I bought this TV BECAUSE IT DID HAVE a MUCH SHARPER and BRIGHTER picture than any of the smaller 19" HDTVs they had playing on the shelf. I have been happy with mine despite the fact that it is EDTV (Enhanced Def TV) as opposed to the supposedly superior HDTV models. I also paid about $300 for it about 4 years ago. Today, you can get comparable for much less!

There was something about I liked too and I liked it's standard screen better than the wide screen TVs which are now the norm.

In the Best Buy where I was looking, the 20" Sharp EDTV was next to a 19" HDTV and the EDTV had much more of a picture for only one inch difference in size.

The TVs we both have are going to be a collector's item one day in the not so distant future.

 

[cd637299]

^ As you may know, gar, I was able to catch low power DTV WKOB in NYC. They run RF (actual) DT ch 2, although they decode as ch 42. Manual tuning (RF channels) on the converter box or DTV is the key. (I do not own an HDTV, so I am not sure how to scan, or how they work; I am only familiar with the Insignia/Zenith set top box.)

cd

 

[gar hi]

Since I've never seriously tried DTV DXing, I have a question.

I noticed on the G7IZU site there are a whole bunch of paths showing up in the 50 mhz or above path from here in Florida to the midwest. I put the TV on DTV 2 and nothing.

When I passed our channel 3 here in Tampa, I notice the signal is locked in but it's also showing those signs that you see when a signal is a litttle weak and starting to break up.

Could that be a sign of co frequency interference from E Skip?


I REALLY miss analog TV. :-\

 

[KR4BD]

Could that be a sign of co frequency interference from E Skip?


I REALLY miss analog TV. :-\

Yes...I miss analog TV, too. TV DX was more interesting as you could watch 6 or 7 different signals try to duke it out on the same channel! With Digital, the received signal must be "clean" and strong before most tuners will decode it. You will almost have to have a direct pipeline of just one STRONG Digital station coming in. I am still receiving analog stations from Canada and Latin America on the low VHF channels which will interfere with any incoming DTV trying to get through. Again, the DTV signal must be strong and clear to be decoded.

One GREAT thing about DTV DX. You can immediately ID the station when you hit the info feature on the remote. It tells you the call letters and the program being watched.

What I do for DTV DX is this:

When I know conditions for Sporatic E-skip are occuring (like the Ham 6 meter band is hopping!), I put the TV in the unlocked mode and park it on RF channel 2. Most of the time it will say "No Signal". When a signal is strong enough and not interfered with, it will decode giving me a picture. I hit my "info button" and it will tell me the call letters of the station I am seeing. Very easy! However, you will see FAR FEWER DTV stations than you did with analog when DXing.

 

[gar hi]

Since you have the sane TV I do, how do you out it in unlocked mode?

I never knew there was such a thing.


Also, what kind of antenna do you have.

Mine is is at the top of my closet on the 1st floor and it's one of those flat square things with a plug in signal booster.

 

[KR4BD]

Since you have the sane TV I do, how do you out it in unlocked mode?

I never knew there was such a thing.

I do NOT have any stations programmed into my TV via the direct scan or memory modes. You will have to know what RF channels your locals are on to watch them. For instance, my local CBS station used to be on Ch27, but the DTV version of it is on RF Ch36. So, when I want to watch that channel, I manually enter "36". Once entered, it will say I am watching Ch27, however. It's confusing at first. Since E skip almost always ONLY occurs on RF Ch2 through 6, I will just enter "2" and keep an eye on it for signals to pop up. With digital, signals will only decode IF they are strong and no other signals are interfering with it. Obviously, you will know when conditions are "ripe" if FM signals from 1000 miles away are showing up. I use the 6 meter ham band (50-54 MHZ) as an indicator of Sporatic-E skip. Channel 2 is situated just above at 54-60 MHZ.

 

[gar hi]

I programmed my stations by a scan but I take it I can still do as you mention, put it on channel 2, 4, 5, or 6 and see if any signal is strong enough to pop in.

 

[MarioMania]

The only DTV stations are

KIEM RF3 Eureka, CA
KSNV RF2 Las Vegas, NV

But when there an E in Vallejo..I only get Mexican on Analog 2, 3 and 4

I think there blocking DTV here

 

[w9wi]

So let's say there's an E Skip opening of up to 80 Mhz in a path from here to New York, for example.

I'd have to find out what actual frequencies their DTV channels 2 4 and 5 use to see whether it would be worth looking for any reception?

Yes.

You can look up the stations on the FCC CDBS (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html) or my website (http://www.w9wi.com/web). You'll have to look them up by city or call letters. (you can't search by virtual channel on either site)

For example, if you look up WNBC, channel 4 in New York, you get these hits:

Call Channel | Service Status City State Country File Number Docket FacilityID ERP HAAT Licensee/Permittee
WNBC 28 DT STA NEW YORK NY US BDSTA-20041220ADE - 47535 200.2 kW 397. m NBC TELEMUNDO LICENSE LLC
WNBC 28 DT LIC NEW YORK NY US BLCDT-20080409AAM - 47535 200.2 kW 397. m NBC TELEMUNDO LICENSE LLC
WNBC 28 DT APP NEW YORK NY US BPCDT-20080620ADL - 47535 164. kW 519.1 m NBC TELEMUNDO LICENSE LLC
WNBC 28 DX CP NEW YORK NY US BXPCDT-20090522AAL - 47535 290. kW 223.4 m NBC TELEMUNDO LICENSE LLC
WNBC 28 DX APP NEW YORK NY US BXLCDT-20100519ABL - 47535 290. kW 223.4 m NBC TELEMUNDO LICENSE LLC
WNBC 28 DS APP NEW YORK NY US BDSTA-20100826AEI - 47535 100.1 kW 397. m NBC TELEMUNDO LICENSE LLC

This shows WNBC broadcasts on the frequency band known in the analog days as "channel 28". You won't be able to DX this frequency via E-skip.

In general, there are VERY few digital stations broadcasting on E-skip-DXable frequencies. The vast majority of stations that were on channels 2-6 in analog are now on UHF frequency bands.

===

Actually, I'd recommend against looking too closely at the databases. Just turn on your TV & check out the channels. Sometimes, something unexpected may be going on... Sunday morning I had a dialful of Minneapolis -- as I tuned through the band, tuned in a strong signal -- that turned out to be Connecticut.