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Any Major Format Holes Left?

B

Barry

Now that country has returned to the NYC Metro, and alternative or some form of modern rock is apparently on its way via 103.9, are there any formats that have a significant following and a good chance of commercial success missing from this market?
So that we do not rehash all the recently made arguments on behalf of dance music (in one form or another), let's consider that genre one possible format hole. Are there any others? Or are we on our way towards having a reasonably good mix of viable formats?
 
I would say there's possibly a hole for some sort of 80s/90s focused format. Possibly another adult hits (Jack FM, Bob Fm, etc) type station. Or it could be more similar to Clear Channel's Gen X format or Cumulus's "Journey" format they tried in a few markets. Not necessarily a big hole, but I think there's room for some sort of 80s/90s format focused on the years between CBS Fm and PLJ and Fresh.
 
How about locally originated, locally-focused personality talk?

WABC used to program that way and drew 2 and a half times as many listeners that way in 1995 as it does now with right wing syndication...and WOR drew 3 to 5 times as many in the early 90s as it does now. WHy did they both drift away from the approach that made them money?
 
Bob1370 said:
How about locally originated, locally-focused personality talk?

WABC used to program that way and drew 2 and a half times as many listeners that way in 1995 as it does now with right wing syndication...and WOR drew 3 to 5 times as many in the early 90s as it does now. WHy did they both drift away from the approach that made them money?
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There is another thread on this board started by a poster complaining that WOR is currently running too much local talk. :)
http://radiodiscussions.com/smf/index.php?topic=227718.0
 
One school of thought has taught all along that if there existed an actual hole, marketers would have filled it by now.

The school's renegade students (and graduates) insist that what has been taught is outdated.I'm one of those dissidents.

It was you, Bob, who first sent up the flare about the increasing indifference to radio shown by youth. That had to be a good ten years ago. If I recall correctly, you pointed out that the teen 'shrug' factor had begun to be evident a few years before that.

Given that you're correct -- since I've not read a single poster who disputed the claim -- it has to follow that the erosion at the younger end began well before most of today's alternate listening devices existed.

That places the blame on radio's inability to adapt.

For decades, youth had been replenishing radio listenership's universe in stride. Nowadays, a 16-year old's first car is likely to come equipped at least with a casette deck and maybe a CD player. A wealthier kid's car (or a peer-leader's car) will also have satellite radio and more computer ports than it has cylinders.

* * * * * * *

Anyway, if there's a hole in the radio market, NYC or anywhere else, it's for people in the 12-24 demo. Radio companies and radio stations who stalk the sweet spot -- that 30-40 money demo -- may be doing the right thing by their stockholders. But the more that supply of new blood dwindles, the bigger that hole in the market gets.

I don't feel I'm disappointing anyone by not having a format to cover that hole. After all, it's been over a decade since the revelation that radio management and programmers haven't had a clue, either, about how to rustproof their own industry.

If they did have an idea, well, heck -- it would be on the air already, wouldn't it ? ;)
 
Maybe the time has come for another try at the old "Monitor" weekend service that NBC did so well for almost 20 years.

Or maybe now is the right time for a News And Information Service. There are lots more stations (on am and fm) now, and more who would be willing to pickup such a network. Not a CNN or AP round the clock, but a well done radio only service that would have top talent available from one of the big four tv webs.

I think.

Joe
 
Steve Green NEPA said:
For decades, youth had been replenishing radio listenership's universe in stride. Nowadays, a 16-year old's first car is likely to come equipped at least with a casette deck and maybe a CD player. A wealthier kid's car (or a peer-leader's car) will also have satellite radio and more computer ports than it has cylinders.
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A cassette player? Who gives a 16-year-old a 12+-year-old car? My nothing-special Saturn is a 2002 and the CD player was standard equipment even then. I picked it up used in 2005 and was disappointed when the salesman told me there was no player for my extensive cassette collection and no easy way to install one.
 
CTListener said:
Steve Green NEPA said:
For decades, youth had been replenishing radio listenership's universe in stride. Nowadays, a 16-year old's first car is likely to come equipped at least with a casette deck and maybe a CD player. A wealthier kid's car (or a peer-leader's car) will also have satellite radio and more computer ports than it has cylinders.

maybe ten years ago that would be true but not now/ Parents don't want their kids roaming around in 20 year old cars so everyone will have a cd player but there are rare occasions where there is both!! Good example 1999 Olds intrigue!!
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Thinking it' a shame there's no Standards station in market 1. Need a template? Try CFZM 740 in Toronto.
 
tvradiogeek said:
CTListener said:
Steve Green NEPA said:
For decades, youth had been replenishing radio listenership's universe in stride. Nowadays, a 16-year old's first car is likely to come equipped at least with a casette deck and maybe a CD player. A wealthier kid's car (or a peer-leader's car) will also have satellite radio and more computer ports than it has cylinders.

maybe ten years ago that would be true but not now/ Parents don't want their kids roaming around in 20 year old cars so everyone will have a cd player but there are rare occasions where there is both!! Good example 1999 Olds intrigue!!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Not sure who you're quoting here, but it's not me! I don't see that "maybe ten years ago" comment anywhere in this thread.
 
Format holes in New York? Maybe a light AC..ala WFEZ or WDUV..stations that still play Barry Manilow,The Carpenters, John Denver,etc. Of course, it would skew older, but today's AC stations are quite "hard" sounding, for lack of a better term. I would love to see a real oldies station that plays 50's and 60's. and an FM talk station that is totally local.

I wish some of the AM stations that are brokered(Arthur Lius) properties would program standards or older oldies. I'm sure there are very few listeners to 620AM, 930, 1330.1380 and 1480. I would love to see Radio Disney on 1560 move to a less powerful frequency, so 1560 could be freed up to play standards or oldies. After all, Disney just wants a presence in New York. Virtually nobody listens to WQEW, so does it really matter where the station is on the AM band?
 
You're not getting it. Arthur Liu makes a TON of money brokering airtime on all of his AM stations, which targets ethnic and other underserved groups.

He tried it once with "Sunny 1430" and a standards format, he's not going to go down that road again.

Radio is a business, not a hobby.
 
PS- The station you are wishing for playing Manilow, Streisand and John Denver will appeal to what, 70+ demo??

And forget standards as a format. The target audience for it is dead. They were dying 15 years ago when we flipped WJUX to oldies from standards.

Most who were in WWII are now at least 90. Kids born in 1940 (who were teenagers in the 50's) are now 73.

We're lucky CBS-FM still plays anything from the 60's. What does help is the sonic texture of the music of the (especially later) 1960's is a closer match to a lot of more modern things. The White Album can sit alongside the Black Keys and not stand out like a sore thumb and sound dated.

The standards music and especially the Hit Parade music sounds incredibly dated. Only the Sinatra/Rat Pack and a few others can still hold up today because of the clean recordings. Sinatra, Bennett have a long legacy and legend that holds the music up as well.
 
What's the definition of a format hole? A format you'd like to hear because you personally like it? Or a format that an owner should consider because it will attract a significant number of listeners that are desirable to advertisers and will generate considerable revenues???
 
I mentioned Manilow, The Carpenters and John Denver as artists who would be played along side more contemporary artists. i cited Easy 93 in Miami and WDUV in Tampa as two examples. I just think there is room for a station like this that would cater to older listeners, not 70 plus.

Yes, i know Arthur Liu makes a lot of money with his AM stations. It would be nice to have a little diversity, and make some money at the same time.

I'm glad I have the option of listening to SiriusXM and Internet radio,where you can still listen to a true standards station or a 50's,60's oldies station. I know these formats will never return to terrestrial radio,and it's nice to have the option to listen to this music when I want to.
 
With all due respect to some of the posters, apparently they did not read my original post too carefully.
I asked about missing formats that may have a significant following and would have a good chance of being commercially viable.
I also mentioned that, as has been discussed on this board for the past day or two, it appears alternative/modern rock may be heading to WFAS 103.9 (so I would not include contemporary rock as a current format hole).
 
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