Any Mea Culpas?

[radioray]

"As David pointed out, there is no "thirst for power" involved with any of the corporations that own broadcast facilties. I know personally many of the players that you speak of, and all of them are just trying to do their job; increase shareholder value plus protect and grow the business."

That is utopian rubbish. EGO plays a HUGE role in a lot of business decisions and, yes, some decisions about whether or not to buy or pass on certain clusters WERE ego driven a few years ago.

 

[radioray]

"Look, if one or two companies want to fire their staff, that makes it easier for the other companies in the market to kick their butts. The goal is to be #1 and give listeners what they want. This is not a one-size-fits-all thing where 15,000 radio stations have all fired their talent and replaced them with syndication. Every market, even the smallest ones, have stations with live air talent. In some cases, it does well. In others, it doesn't matter. If listeners want live & local talent, they can find it in every market, regardless of size."

Super technically speaking you may be correct. But I was in Atlanta a few weeks ago (I don't live there, was there for a wedding) and all day Sunday I heard ZERO live jocks on ANY station. There may be some live jocks there at some times, but not ONE station (FM) had one on Sunday and I spent about 45 minutes surfing the dial looking while driving to the reception. Would have been nice to have some interaction with listeners after the Falcons won their game in my opinion. Two AM stations were live, the sports talker and a religious station which was taking live prayer requests (but not for the Falcons).

 

[radioray]

"The classic case is the Radio One cluster in Houston. Rather than blame the PPM for the initial poor debut of The Box and Majic in the PPM, Radio One decided to find out if their own stations were, perhaps, less than stellar. Recognizing that the diary tended to register brands rather than precise usage, they realized they had good brands but deficient execution and set about cutting back DJ chatter, reducting talk in music dayparts, shortening talk in morning shows and adding more songs, etc."

They also spent over 300k on marketing from what I have heard through the mill. I know of many examples where you can, at least for a while, market yourself to number one. KCBS did that with the Arrow format in Los Angeles for example. I know. I worked there (at CBS, not in Los Angeles for the station). As soon as the ads stop the ratings dipped.

 

[SirRoxalot]

I think that the point is that we have moved from one imperfect audience measurement tool to another imperfect audience measurement tool. Let's hope that they do better next time, huh?

 

[TheBigA]

all day Sunday I heard ZERO live jocks on ANY station.

It's Sunday. Listening patterns and audience expectations are different on Sunday. That's where stations run specialty programs, not regular programming.

Two AM stations were live, the sports talker and a religious station which was taking live prayer requests (but not for the Falcons).

I think it's appropriate for the sports station to take calls about the football game. Not the music stations. If I was programming a station in Atlanta, especially one aiming at a largely female demo, I would not break format to discuss a regular season football game. And I don't think prayer requests can help the Falcons.

This isn't meant as an excuse, but I have heard of stations in NFL markets that have received c & d letters from the NFL if they attempt to profit on the NFL and are not connected to the NFL market licensee. That includes contesting and hosting a live post-game show.

 

[radioray]

"It's Sunday. Listening patterns and audience expectations are different on Sunday. That's where stations run specialty programs, not regular programming."

Yes but ten years ago all these stations would have been live. Now I understand that technically it is now possible to "fake it" (poorly) so stations do. But I do not think the reason this is occurring is anything but the lack of respect for good programming product and an attempt to save money by managers seeking to make their budgets so they get their bonuses. The listener? The future of the station two years from now when the connection with the listener has been frayed? Not his/her concern. He/she is probably a sales guy and wants his/her commision and bonus NOW. Typical of sales people. Sad and short sighted.

"I think it's appropriate for the sports station to take calls about the football game. Not the music stations. If I was programming a station in Atlanta, especially one aiming at a largely female demo, I would not break format to discuss a regular season football game. And I don't think prayer requests can help the Falcons. This isn't meant as an excuse, but I have heard of stations in NFL markets that have received c & d letters from the NFL if they attempt to profit on the NFL and are not connected to the NFL market licensee. That includes contesting and hosting a live post-game show."

I would definitely not do this if I was running a female targeted AC or a format that is designed for "less talk". But I would have a live jock on any rock station taking quick calls before and after the game, or the oldies station (but there isnt one in Atlanta) or a male heavy Urban station.

 

[TheBigA]

Yes but ten years ago all these stations would have been live.

Ten, twenty, and thirty years ago, these stations ran syndicated music shows. Casey Kasem, Dick Clark, Bob Kingsley, Walt Baby Love, and many more. That's what radio stations have been running on Sunday's for years.

 

[davideduardo]

They also spent over 300k on marketing from what I have heard through the mill. I know of many examples where you can, at least for a while, market yourself to number one. KCBS did that with the Arrow format in Los Angeles for example. I know. I worked there (at CBS, not in Los Angeles for the station). As soon as the ads stop the ratings dipped.

$300 k is a short flight in Houston using TV or boards. And since PPM success for an ethnic station requires getting better TSL out of a limited cume, marketing can only call out to the cume... it can't force TSL (and memory) as it did in the diary survey. The Box and Majic have been very consistent among the first three positions for over a year.

 

[davideduardo]

I think that the point is that we have moved from one imperfect audience measurement tool to another imperfect audience measurement tool. Let's hope that they do better next time, huh?

Anything short of a census is going to have a margin of error. The smaller the sample, the larger the error. Since radio can't pay for any larger PPM samples, then what we have is as perfect a system as you will ever get. Once Arbitron learns the tricks of the trade for using a survey methodology they had never done before, we'll likely have the best audience measurement tool available.

Proof of the value if the PPM is that the BBM in Canada is using it, and the B>BM is broadcaster owned.

 

[davideduardo]

Yes but ten years ago all these stations would have been live.

Ten, twenty, and thirty years ago, these stations ran syndicated music shows. Casey Kasem, Dick Clark, Bob Kingsley, Walt Baby Love, and many more. That's what radio stations have been running on Sunday's for years.

And then there was the whole group of shows like the King Biscuit Flour Hour, Dr. Demento, etc.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Yes but ten years ago all these stations would have been live.

Ten, twenty, and thirty years ago, these stations ran syndicated music shows. Casey Kasem, Dick Clark, Bob Kingsley, Walt Baby Love, and many more. That's what radio stations have been running on Sunday's for years.

And then there was the whole group of shows like the King Biscuit Flour Hour, Dr. Demento, etc.

Come now, gentlemen. Stations often ran a feature, or perhaps two on Sunday night. And they ran church/Public affairs programming Sunday morning. But, the major dayparts on Sunday - mid-days and PM drive - were staffed with part-timers. I find it appalling that a market the size of Atlanta doesn't have a live body on the air on FM on Sunday.

 

[TVradioguru]

And one can't forget the National Lampoon Radio Hour, where many of the original stars from Saturday Night Live in the 70's came from!

I'm probably dating myself, but I ran that show from reel to reel Sunday night in San Diego, CA. when I was a budding broadcaster at age 15. One of the funniest radio shows ever!

Oh and indeed, there were no live DJ's at that station for most of the day Sunday... Evil, greedy station owners back in the 70's! An outrage!

 

[radioray]

"Ten, twenty, and thirty years ago, these stations ran syndicated music shows. Casey Kasem, Dick Clark, Bob Kingsley, Walt Baby Love, and many more. That's what radio stations have been running on Sunday's for years."

Oh I know. Heck that's how I got my start, over 30 years ago, spinning those discs and doing time and temp twice an hour. But they weren't on ALL day Sunday. It was syndicated till 10 or so, then two jocks then more syndication from 7 or 8pm onward. But in Atlanta at 4-5pm NOTHING was live NOTHING (except the aforementioned Sports and Religious station). That's just sad.

 

[SirRoxalot]

'Guru, your experience simply shows that there were greedy - or impoverished - station owners in the '70s who would hire a 15-year-old to board-op. I suspect that you didn't work for a "market leader", and that there were LOTS of other stations in San Diego that were live most of the day. There are dogs in any market. These days, they're nothing more than a computer in a closet, or a satellite repeater.

The point of the original post is that there's less and less compelling programming on the weekend. The original poster stated "I was in Atlanta a few weeks ago (I don't live there, was there for a wedding) and all day Sunday I heard ZERO live jocks on ANY station." I've been appalled at the lack of quality on some very big stations in some very large markets. Mid-days have become a vast wasteland of VT & syndication for a lot of very profitable stations. And we all know the story post 7PM.

Radio has great challenges from new media, but throwing in the towel and trying to EMULATE new media is NOT the answer to that challenge.

 

[davideduardo]

'Guru, your experience simply shows that there were greedy - or impoverished - station owners in the '70s who would hire a 15-year-old to board-op. I suspect that you didn't work for a "market leader", and that there were LOTS of other stations in San Diego that were live most of the day. There are dogs in any market. These days, they're nothing more than a computer in a closet, or a satellite repeater.

From what I remember of San Diego in the early 70's I think the FM running that show would have been KGB, hardly a slacker in that market.

OTOH, the show may have run on different stations.

 

[TheBigA]

But in Atlanta at 4-5pm NOTHING was live NOTHING (except the aforementioned Sports and Religious station). That's just sad.

Sad for you, but unimportant to those who use radio.

I got my start the same way, running syndication Sunday morning. Then I had a 4 hour airshift. But I was not allowed to be a personality. The personalities were only there on weekdays. And we spent a lot of time and money promoting those personalities. I got paid minimum wage, and was told what to say and do. Just spin the records from the computer generated list, occasionally breaking in to give the weather. And this was a long time ago, in a big market, at a top-rated station. When they got Accu-weather, I just ran the cart with the phone cast. Weekend staff was there because there was no automation. But the effect was the same. So once computers were invented, there was no need for the human. Is it sad that people got replaced by computers? Sure. But my typewriter got replaced by a computer, my $50,000 studio got replaced by a $2000 computer, and just about everything else got replaced by a computer. Should I cry and complain? For what purpose? Things change. My point is that if people want live DJs, they are there. Maybe not 24/7, maybe not at every station in town, but they are there. Do they make a difference? You can argue that all day. But the view that live & local is gone is not correct.

 

[gr8oldies]

We're coming up on the end of the decade complaining about corporate radio and wishing that someone (Congress rolling back consolodation, localism rules, or bankrupcty) would get us back to hitting the post and telling jokes over intros, and it makes me wonder if as we approach 2020 10 years from now we're still going to be in "if only we did radio like we did it in the 70s" mode, or might we figure out how to do radio in this brave new digital, multi media world. The past is a wonderful place to visit, but people are too picky, and too used to being their own Program Director for everything radio used to do to get and keep and audience.

 

[TheBigA]

Radio has great challenges from new media, but throwing in the towel and trying to EMULATE new media is NOT the answer to that challenge.

If that's what the public wants, and they demonstrate it by their actions, then maybe radio should give the people what they want. Isn't that what public service is supposed to be?

Radio is not going to "emulate new media," because new media has advantages that radio doesn't have. But that is no reason to cling to the old ways and assume hiring local staff will bring back younger demos, when it's clear and obvious to everyone that it's not what they want. As I said earlier, giving me a free sweet roll is not going to get me to eat sushi.

We know what listeners DON'T want: Annoying DJs and too many commercials. So stations are cutting commercials. Commercial loads are down at music stations to an average of 12-14 minutes an hour. That's exactly what they were before consolidation. But that's still too many for a generation raised on free content. Fewer commercials mean less money for programming, less money for DJs. That's just the simple mathematics of it. And since Pandora has 70 million users with no localism or DJs, perhaps that should tell us something.

 

[Chuck]

While everyone seems to lament the demise of "live and local," it is important to note just who is making these comments. Mostly, it seems to come from people who are closely associated with radio, either by profession or avocation. That is a minority segment and may represent a minority position.

I frequently wonder the general public actually cares? In over eight years of operating a local radio station, I can’t recall anyone asking me why we didn’t have live DJ’s. We actually do have one (who is very good) on Saturday night. The funny thing is after his first show, I got comments from listeners who were concerned that their favorite station might be changing and they’d have to listen to incessant babble instead of hearing the songs they enjoy.

I suspect that most people do like a "local flavor" to their favorite station, but the "live" part may be optional - or even not preferred. If it is live, then it had better add something to the listening experience. A lot of local talent does not do that very well and in fact, they can make the station sound worse, not better. Perhaps they aren't allowed to develop, or maybe they aren't capable of it. The truth is, not everyone is fascinating to listen to.

It isn't that hard to come up with an automated format that sounds local. Doing so makes the economics of running a smaller market station much more viable. In many situations, this may be the best compromise.

I have to admit that I get a bit nostalgic for the days when there was a live person spinning records from a storefront window in many mid-American cities. It was very cool, and made a big impression on me as a kid. But that was another era. While I remember the good parts of that time, I have to be reminded of just how different life in America was back then. A lot has changed. Some of it is for the better, some for the worse. If radio has any redeeming factors, one of its greatest is its ability to roll with the punches and adapt to changing times. The advent of new competing technologies is just another hurdle. I suspect that “broadcasting” will be with us for a very long time.

 

[TVradioguru]

Bingo Chuck!