Any stations shutting off analog and going HDTV BEFORE 2/17/2009?

[Tim from Springfield IL]

Ever since the reports of the DTV converter program broke earlier this week, I have heard some people think that some stations will be shutting off analog and going all digital before Feb. 17, 2009--some wondering if this might occur the 17th of this month.

Other than some stations that are currently all-digital, are there any stations that will be shutting off their analog signals before the deadline and going all-DTV before the mandated switchover date?

 

[Bongwater]

I don't see it happening too soon. Not everybody knows of the change (believe it or not, mostly TV/video techies and insiders know of the impending switch to digital. The average viewer knows very little to nothing. Or confuse it with digital cable/satellite, TiVo, etc.)

Don't get me wrong, I have an HDTV (as well as a trusty 32" analog Sony in our bedroom.) and I love HDTV and I know it's here to stay. I'm talking about the public in general. You'd be surprised how FEW older and working class people know of the impending change on February 17, 2009, even as of now. Every day, I'm always explaining the transition and getting looks that say everything from "WHAT?!" to "YOU'RE CRAZY!". Then I show them the web sites and whatever printed information I have that explains this when I am doubted and they are sometimes still in denial ("The government can't do this! What about people who can't afford expensive TVs?!" is one popular reaction.) And I still end up feeling like I'm some Art Bell nutjob UFO conspiracist trying to convince the common people that higher-tech aliens are taking over in a hostile bid for domination of America. Which metaphorically speaking in terms of analog/HDTV, they are. These people still think HDTV is a luxury item and not an immediate necessity. That's not exactly out of ignorance either

The industry from manufacturers to broadcasters have done very little to inform the masses. Retail stores have phased out all analog TVs, and manufacturers have quit making them but that's not enough. There are HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of still perfectly functioning analog sets out there in use as we speak. Don't tell me for one iota of a second that even 2/3rds of their mostly uninformed owners will be ready for the changeover by February 17, 2009 at the sluggardly pace of information about the changeover is coming out.

I'm 95% positive the analog/digital switchover will be pushed back by at least another year at the rate this is going (in spite of opinions to the contrary.) They should have started pushing the cutoff date to the public ad nauseum 5 years ago and only then I would think the current cut off date would go without a hitch. As we stand, we have a lot people who are going to wake up February 17, 2009 with useless TVs because the information about the cut-off date STILL isn't broadcast on most TV channels and networks. As of now, it's still very rarely in the news and aside from a few rarely seen PSAs, the whole subject is almost completely ignored by the news media.

That's going to create a lot of pissed off average TV viewers, the kind who don't want to get too technical, who just want to turn something on and have it work. Which many TV viewers are. So what are the TV networks and manufacturers going to do? Wait until the very last minute? That's no way to bring about sea change of THIS magnitude.

Many older people still percieve HDTV as an expensive toy, not because THEY are ignorant, but that's how HDTV has actually been promoted for the last few years up to even now. As a cool new video gadget, but not really necessary as long as their current TVs still work (you know how some older people are), not as a MANDATORY necessity next year.

So I say it's time for ALL TV broadcasters to get into balls-out overdrive NOW with informing the public about the analog cutoff date if they want to make this work with some success by next year.

Which creates another quagmire. Where are all of these old obsolete analog sets going to go? You think we got NIMBYs now? Just wait until you realize THE ENVIRONMENTAL impact of HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of useless TV sets in a very short time. You can't put them in an average landfill. You can't really recycle them aside from the plastic and maybe a few components. The old tubes (absolutely filled with everything from freon to mercury) have to go somewhere too.

And by the way, we wouldn't want our kids playing in dumps full of hazardous old electronics and I'm sure there are parents of children in Third World nations who feel that way too and they deserve the same right to say no to their areas being an old TV picture tube graveyard as we do. We have enough environmental problems as it is disposing of archiac computer parts, but this massive onslaught is going to be a REAL problem.

Has anybody even THOUGHT about THIS in our rush to HDTV? And just wait until RADIO goes all digital (as I've heard it proposed) 5-10 years from now.

HDTV has a big glorious picture, but it seems like nobody is looking at the BIGGER, albeit uglier picture.....

 

[KML0224]

My major complaint in all of this? Why wasn't this switch done on an early Sunday morning, as with Daylight Saving Time starting and ending? February 17, 2009 is a TUESDAY. Ugh!

 

[Bongwater]

My major complaint in all of this? Why wasn't this switch done on an early Sunday morning, as with Daylight Saving Time starting and ending? February 17, 2009 is a TUESDAY. Ugh!

Typical results of a clueless government and clueless industry hand in hand.

Your tax dollars at work....

(SIGH!)

 

[Tim from Springfield IL]

My major complaint in all of this? Why wasn't this switch done on an early Sunday morning, as with Daylight Saving Time starting and ending? February 17, 2009 is a TUESDAY. Ugh!

In 2009, February 14-16 will be a holiday weekend for some people (Presidents' Day)--then, of course, Sunday, Feb. 15 will be the date of the 2009 Daytona 500. That probably explains to me why the switchover is occurring on Tuesday, Feb. 17 as those who had a holiday weekend for Presidents' Day will be returning to work.

 

[fybush]

I'm 95% positive the analog/digital switchover will be pushed back by at least another year at the rate this is going (in spite of opinions to the contrary.) They should have started pushing the cutoff date to the public ad nauseum 5 years ago and only then I would think the current cut off date would go without a hitch. As we stand, we have a lot people who are going to wake up February 17, 2009 with useless TVs because the information about the cut-off date STILL isn't broadcast on most TV channels and networks. As of now, it's still very rarely in the news and aside from a few rarely seen PSAs, the whole subject is almost completely ignored by the news media.

Perhaps you can explain, then, why more than a million of the DTV converter box coupons were requested within the first 48 hours of the program last week? The story was all over local newscasts nationwide all week long, and the publicity will ramp up considerably as the coupons get mailed out and the boxes become available.

As for being "95% positive" that the switchover will be pushed back, set aside an hour or four and dig through the Report and Order that the FCC issued on the conversion last week:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-228A1.pdf

The FCC's very serious about the 2/17/09 deadline, as are the other spectrum users who've already paid for their pieces of what are now channels 52-69. They're not going to tolerate any delays.

 

[MikeSFNM]

Bongwater is on the mark, right on the mark. The word may now be starting to spread, but we are talking about millions of people for whom hooking up a VCR is a major ordeal. We may have serious political repercussions in a year. Look at the situation realistically-- Iraq and Afghanistan are big problems only to people who have loved ones over there; the economy is of concern but there is nothing that can be done about it; the Iowa caucuses and the various state primaries are really not of interest to most people in the country, only to those who live in those states and the relentless media that make every current affairs event one of major importance in their own eyes.

But when you get to television, that is like family; what affects television affects the lives of millions of people who depend on it. There are millions of working poor in this country whose jobs pay fed minimum or just above it. How they raise families on that, I don't know, but they do not have money left over for "discretionary" spending. Television for millions is the only customary entertainment. Touch that and you have real problems. And there will be problems, depend upon it.

If you think this is overwrought, go back to high school or college history and remember how a declining Roman Empire and its emperors subsidized daily entertainment in the various colosseums and theaters for the masses: "bread and circuses." The latter was as important as the former. Television is the contemporary "circus." Those whose daily survival is a major effort will not look kindly on the expensive disruption of their "circuses." The conversion to digital television will be a national event that, unlike most others, say what the politicos and the pundits will, affect them in their daily lives. They will not take it kindly.

As for filling up the landfills, right on. I am amazed that the environmental nuts have not had anything to say about this--how do you dispose of all these hundreds of millions of analog sets (most homes have several)? Or the thousands of pieces of commercial and broadcast analog sets? Voucher or no, eventually they all will be junked. (It just goes to shows that the tree huggers are very selective about what they crusades and campaigns they launch.)

 

[JayR]

Other than some stations that are currently all-digital, are there any stations that will be shutting off their analog signals before the deadline and going all-DTV before the mandated switchover date?

Stations most likely will ride analog until the last minute.

 

[fybush]

Other than some stations that are currently all-digital, are there any stations that will be shutting off their analog signals before the deadline and going all-DTV before the mandated switchover date?

Stations most likely will ride analog until the last minute.

And again, I'll point to the FCC's lengthy Report and Order that they released last week. Yes, it's a lot of reading - but dig through all 150-plus pages and you'll have your answer. In a nutshell - the FCC expects most stations to remain on the air at full power with their analog signal until 2/17/09. But they'll allow stations to turn off their analog signals temporarily or permanently before that deadline if circumstances require it - if antennas need to be moved, for instance, or transmitters reconfigured.

A handful of stations operating "out of core" (channels 52-69) have already been permitted to shut down their analog transmitters, usually to allow new services (Qualcomm's MediaFLO, for instance) to begin occupying the frequencies they've bought at auction.

That link, once again:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-228A1.pdf

 

[mjlarochelle]

I have tried to explain this DTV conversion to some work colleagues of mine in Canada, and they cannot seem to figure it out. I could not seem to properly explain that HDTV signals can be broadcast over-the-air.

 

[dhett]

Building on Scott Fybush's last post:

I know of nine full-service stations that have already shut off analog and gone digital-only, and four more with a request to the FCC to do so. Two other stations have replaced their full-service facilities with LPTV in their city of license and are digital-only for the rest of the market. One other requested to go digital only, but was denied. In Phoenix, a popular LPTV station plans to flash cut to digital this month; it's likely that other LPTVs either have already done so or have plans to do so.

The FCC has been pretty adamant about full-service stations keeping both analog and digital facilities operational until February 2009, but has allowed out-of-core stations (channels 52 - 69) to shut off analog early in order to clear the 700 MHz band, as long as they are not among the top 4 stations in the market, not the community's sole full-power service, not the community's sole full-power NCE service, and not a provider of unique programming in the community.

Generally, stations allowed to go digital-only are in markets with high cable/satellite penetration, so the impact to over-the-air customers is minimal. In fact, in some cases, the DTV coverage is far better than analog, and allows the station to assert must-carry rights to more cable providers.

Stations that have shut off analog early:

Market Calls City NTSC DTV
New York WLNY Riverhead NY 55 57
WRNN Kingston NY 62 48
Albany WYPX Amsterdam NY 55 50
Philadelphia WMCN Atlantic City NJ 53 44
Orlando WACX Leesburg FL 55 40
Shreveport KPXJ Minden LA 21 21
Dallas KLDT Lake Dallas TX 55 54
Los Angeles KVMD Twentynine Palms CA 31 23
Seattle KWDK Tacoma WA 56 42

Stations seeking to go digital-only:

New York WTBY Poughkeepsie NY 54 27
Macon WGNM Macon GA 64 45
West Palm Beach WFGC West Palm Beach FL 61 49
Honolulu KPXO Kaneohe HI 66 41

Stations operating LPTV analog in COL, digital-only elsewhere:

Fargo KGFE Grand Forks ND 2 16 (KCGE), 25 (KMDE)
San Francisco KCSM San Mateo CA 60 43

 

[Kent]

Perhaps you can explain, then, why more than a million of the DTV converter box coupons were requested within the first 48 hours of the program last week? The story was all over local newscasts nationwide all week long, and the publicity will ramp up considerably as the coupons get mailed out and the boxes become available.

One million is less than 1% of the population and less than 5% of households. That's not a significant number. There are still lots of areas where you can't even buy converter boxes yet. I don't know how informed the general public is regarding the switch to DTV as I haven't done a scientific study on it (nor do I intend to). However, it doesn't seem like a high number. The rumor mill seems to be rampant, though, and TV stations have done a terrible job promoting the switch. They really should have started hitting this transition several years ago, but a large number, if not most, have started fairly recently.

The FCC's very serious about the 2/17/09 deadline, as are the other spectrum users who've already paid for their pieces of what are now channels 52-69. They're not going to tolerate any delays.

Sens. Kay Bailey Hutchison and Barbara Boxer have proposed legislation allowing analog TV within 50 miles of the Mexican border to continue for another 5 years provided it doesn't interfere with new digital allotments. I don't know what the chances for passage are, but it may be that analog TV continues for more than just LPTV's. Something I've learned not only watching government but also as a former government employee is that anything occuring in a timely manner is the exception to the rule. It kind of reminds me of the main reason people should get to the airport with plenty of time to spare, "The plane might actually arrive on time today!"

 

[w9wi]

I would add to the list of analogs going off early WNVT in Goldvein, Va., DTV channel 30. (Washington DC market; I want to say their analog was 53 but may be remembering wrong)

Stations operating LPTV analog in COL, digital-only elsewhere:

Fargo KGFE Grand Forks ND 2 16 (KCGE), 25 (KMDE)
San Francisco KCSM San Mateo CA 60 43

It should probably be emphasized this means low-power analog transmitters, but with a full-power (not LPTV) license. Actually, a Special Temporary Authority. In KGFE's case their analog antenna and transmitter were destroyed by ice fall and they felt it wasn't worth rebuilding for the short period before analog goes off. In KCSM's case IIRC the lease on their analog site came due & they didn't want to pay for renewal & got permission to close the analog early. In both cases the stations found more people were watching the analog than they thought...

Actually WNVT also shut theirs down due to a technical failure they didn't feel was worth fixing.

The six stations listed on analog channels 54, 55, and 56 got permission to shut down early so Qualcomm, the firm that bought the rights to channel 55 at auction, could begin operation in their markets. The FCC documents authorizing the early shutdown all quote Qualcomm as filing in support. (I would not be surprised if some money passed to the stations as part of the deal)

_________________________________________________

Sens. Kay Bailey Hutchison and Barbara Boxer have proposed legislation allowing analog TV within 50 miles of the Mexican border to continue for another 5 years provided it doesn't interfere with new digital allotments. I don't know what the chances for passage are, but it may be that analog TV continues for more than just LPTV's.

I saw that. Apparently someone convinced them stations in their states (Texas and California respectively) will face competition from Mexican stations that "don't have to switch to DTV". (quoted in some articles but not true, Mexico has set an analog drop-dead date but it is quite a bit later than 2/17/2009.)

I suppose they might have a point with regard to Spanish-language stations. I don't think any significant number of English-only viewers in San Diego are going to refuse to convert to OTA digital because they can get one English-language analog station (XETV) out of Mexico.

 

[fybush]

I suppose they might have a point with regard to Spanish-language stations. I don't think any significant number of English-only viewers in San Diego are going to refuse to convert to OTA digital because they can get one English-language analog station (XETV) out of Mexico.

Especially given the phenomenally high penetration of cable/satellite in the San Diego market. I believe the number is well north of 90%, last I checked.

 

[fybush]

Perhaps you can explain, then, why more than a million of the DTV converter box coupons were requested within the first 48 hours of the program last week? The story was all over local newscasts nationwide all week long, and the publicity will ramp up considerably as the coupons get mailed out and the boxes become available.

One million is less than 1% of the population and less than 5% of households. That's not a significant number. There are still lots of areas where you can't even buy converter boxes yet. I don't know how informed the general public is regarding the switch to DTV as I haven't done a scientific study on it (nor do I intend to). However, it doesn't seem like a high number. The rumor mill seems to be rampant, though, and TV stations have done a terrible job promoting the switch. They really should have started hitting this transition several years ago, but a large number, if not most, have started fairly recently.

I don't disagree with you that the public portion of the transition started later than it should have. I definitely agree with FCC commissioner Michael Copps that it would have been a good idea to do some pilot conversions in individual markets before setting a nationwide deadline.

But that said, I disagree with you on a few other points. Those one million converter box requests came in during just the first 48 hours that the website and phone lines were open. They opened on Tuesday, which was a national holiday. From where I sit, that's a pretty remarkable success, given how limited the publicity has been thus far, and given that there are at most 10-15% of households that stand to lose all their TV service (absent a box) on 2/17/09. (The number is probably going to be even lower than that, as prices on LCD and plasma flat-panel sets, all of which are now equipped with DTV tuners by law, continue to plummet through next year's Christmas season.)

As for availability of the boxes, that's a deliberate decision. No retailer is going to start selling the low-cost "coupon boxes" until the coupons are actually in peoples' hands. Why would they? It would only invite a flurry of complaints from people who would buy the boxes, then find out later that they could have saved money by waiting for the coupon. The retailers who are partnering with NTIA for the program say they'll have the boxes available next month. Until we get to 2/17/08 and find empty shelves, I'm willing to take them at their word.

Beyond working part-time at a public radio station with a TV affiliate, and doing occasional on-air pieces about the DTV conversion, I have no personal stake in the transition; I'm all cabled-up here, and my OTA DX setup already has a DTV tuner, thanks. (So does the cheap LCD set in the kitchen.)

Shall we agree to meet back here in 13 months and 12 days and see how things end up?

 

[Markxxx]

My major nitpick is that people keep saying High Def when we're going DIGITAL. Even our local stations are running ads saying "high def" when they mean digital.

This means millions of people are going to get suckered into paying more for things that aren't high def or don't matter. For instance I have read that it's nearly impossible to notice HIGH DEF from Standard Digital unless your screen is bigger than 25" (some say 33") yet people will be suckered into paying more for things they don't need or can't use.

Like anything there is NO INCENTIVE to change over to digital until the last minute. I have OTA free TV and I certainly won't change until the last day unless there's a reason to. Like my analog set dies and I have to buy a new one.

 

[JayR]

Shall we agree to meet back here in 13 months and 12 days and see how things end up?

Nah...too long of a wait. ;D

 

[Iowan]

Speaking of which...

Here's my question: Any new stations going on the air before the cut-off date in 2009? I heard about this not-yet-on-the-air TV station in the Quad Cities market that was supposed to go on the air in 2001 as our UPN station, then there was a more recent article in the QC Times newspaper about the station going digital-only possibly, and the owner said that they had to "look into all programming options" (or something like that). Anyone in the QC have ANY idea when this station will hit the air if at all?

 

[TexasTom]

My major nitpick is that people keep saying High Def when we're going DIGITAL. Even our local stations are running ads saying "high def" when they mean digital.

This means millions of people are going to get suckered into paying more for things that aren't high def or don't matter. For instance I have read that it's nearly impossible to notice HIGH DEF from Standard Digital unless your screen is bigger than 25" (some say 33") yet people will be suckered into paying more for things they don't need or can't use.

Like anything there is NO INCENTIVE to change over to digital until the last minute. I have OTA free TV and I certainly won't change until the last day unless there's a reason to. Like my analog set dies and I have to buy a new one.

Even for OTA viewers watching in standard definition, there is some benefit for switching to digital. Even in standard definition, the picture from the digital broadcasts is substantially better than analog, and can equal the quality of a good DVD. It looks much, much better than the standard definition cable and satellite digital video that I've seen.

The second benefit is the extra subchannels that can be received with a digital tuner. How much value this is can vary from market to market. In some markets, the extra channels can include some very interesting programming -- ranging from the Retro TV Network to major network programming otherwise not available in a city. An example of a market where there is a huge benefit for OTA viewers in going digital: Sherman, TX-Ada, OK. Analog viewers can only get CBS and NBC OTA. Digital viewers get those networks, plus additional subchannels that give them Fox, the CW, and MY TV. That's a boost from two channels up to five...

 

[dhett]

I guess I missed two long-time stations that shut off analog:

The aforementioned WNVT Goldvein VA, formerly analog 53, now just digital 30.
WLJC Beattyville KY, formerly analog 65, now just digital 7.

I also missed three that, like KPXJ Minden LA, were new analog stations that had no paired DTV channel, and were allowed to flash cut early:

KDCK 21 Dodge City KS
KCBU 3 Price UT
KUES 19 Richfield UT