Any stations shutting off analog and going HDTV BEFORE 2/17/2009?

[silverthree]

Even for OTA viewers watching in standard definition, there is some benefit for switching to digital. Even in standard definition, the picture from the digital broadcasts is substantially better than analog, and can equal the quality of a good DVD. It looks much, much better than the standard definition cable and satellite digital video that I've seen.

I agree. At my house, the picture from the DTV signals look way better than the analog ones. It's nice to be able to watch Fox and CBS shows without any interference- especially Fox. On analog Fox is on ch 2 and the signal is just horrible. I have never heard of anybody who can receive that station with a clear picture. In fact the signal is so bad that most people without cable don't even know there's a Fox station on ch 2. Yet on digital the picture is as clear as can be. It really does have the quality of a DVD. The difference is just amazing. On all of the stations. And with an indoor antenna too. The switch to digital may seem like a waste of time and money to some people, but I think it's going to be worth it. Maybe some people need to see the difference to realize that the switch to digital will make their OTA viewing a lot better. Even if it's standard definition and not HD.

 

[w9wi]

Re: Speaking of which...

Here's my question: Any new stations going on the air before the cut-off date in 2009? I heard about this not-yet-on-the-air TV station in the Quad Cities market that was supposed to go on the air in 2001 as our UPN station, then there was a more recent article in the QC Times newspaper about the station going digital-only possibly, and the owner said that they had to "look into all programming options" (or something like that). Anyone in the QC have ANY idea when this station will hit the air if at all?

I don't know of any pending permits or applications in the Quad Cities market. Channel 26 has an application on file to move closer to the area and increase power, and their DTV permit also specifies that closer-to-the-cities site. If I were to guess I would guess they aren' t going to bother building the more powerful analog facility but will sign their DTV on from that site - when I couldn't say.

A new analog station went on the air in Corpus Christi, Texas just last week. (or at least filed their license-to-cover, they may have been operating under program test authority for somewhat longer)

There are other pending permits (and even applications for new stations) - if they were filed before the deadline they *will* be acted on, if granted before the deadline they may choose whether to sign on as analog or digital. Channel 24 in Tallahassee, Florida chose to sign on as a DTV station from the beginning. Of course, if they go on as analog they'll have to flash-cut to digital on the same channel on 2/17/09. With modern transmitters that's not as expensive as it may sound.

_________________________________________________

I also missed three that, like KPXJ Minden LA, were new analog stations that had no paired DTV channel, and were allowed to flash cut early:

It is interesting - I'm pretty sure KDCK and KCBU did once operate in analog but it sure didn't last very long! I'm not entirely certain KUES ever operated an analog facility, they may have signed on as DTV-only. (as did of course some other stations like the above-mentioned WTLF-24)

And oops, I managed to forget about WLJC too. (good thing it's so hilly up there as they're awfully close to WMAK's powerful DTV signal on channel 7 out of Knoxville.)

 

[fybush]

Re: Speaking of which...

Here's my question: Any new stations going on the air before the cut-off date in 2009? I heard about this not-yet-on-the-air TV station in the Quad Cities market that was supposed to go on the air in 2001 as our UPN station, then there was a more recent article in the QC Times newspaper about the station going digital-only possibly, and the owner said that they had to "look into all programming options" (or something like that). Anyone in the QC have ANY idea when this station will hit the air if at all?

I don't know of any pending permits or applications in the Quad Cities market. Channel 26 has an application on file to move closer to the area and increase power, and their DTV permit also specifies that closer-to-the-cities site. If I were to guess I would guess they aren' t going to bother building the more powerful analog facility but will sign their DTV on from that site - when I couldn't say.

The station Iowan is thinking of is the channel 53 allocated to Galesburg, IL. I'm not sure what channel it will end up on for its eventual digital facility. I'm pretty sure that at this point, they're not going to buy a channel 53 antenna to put up an analog facility with the clock ticking.

I vaguely recall some FCC action last year having to do with the ownership of the station - there was an allegation of illegal transfer of control having to do with the way the construction of the station was financed, I think.

A new analog station went on the air in Corpus Christi, Texas just last week. (or at least filed their license-to-cover, they may have been operating under program test authority for somewhat longer)

There are other pending permits (and even applications for new stations) - if they were filed before the deadline they *will* be acted on, if granted before the deadline they may choose whether to sign on as analog or digital. Channel 24 in Tallahassee, Florida chose to sign on as a DTV station from the beginning. Of course, if they go on as analog they'll have to flash-cut to digital on the same channel on 2/17/09. With modern transmitters that's not as expensive as it may sound.

I also missed three that, like KPXJ Minden LA, were new analog stations that had no paired DTV channel, and were allowed to flash cut early:

It is interesting - I'm pretty sure KDCK and KCBU did once operate in analog but it sure didn't last very long! I'm not entirely certain KUES ever operated an analog facility, they may have signed on as DTV-only. (as did of course some other stations like the above-mentioned WTLF-24)

And oops, I managed to forget about WLJC too. (good thing it's so hilly up there as they're awfully close to WMAK's powerful DTV signal on channel 7 out of Knoxville.)

I'm pretty certain KUES signed on DTV-only. I suppose someone should start compiling a list of stations that signed on DTV-only without ever operating analog. It would include WHDT 59 Stuart FL and KDMI 56 in Des Moines, and there are a few PBS signals that have signed on DTV-only as well - I think the Smoky Hills PBS network in Kansas has one, as does Wyoming PTV in Casper.

 

[w9wi]

Re: Speaking of which...

The station Iowan is thinking of is the channel 53 allocated to Galesburg, IL. I'm not sure what channel it will end up on for its eventual digital facility. I'm pretty sure that at this point, they're not going to buy a channel 53 antenna to put up an analog facility with the clock ticking.

Darn it, my bad memory shows itself again...

I don't recall which FCC document I found it in, but I have one which shows this station with a post-transition assignment of channel 8 at 15kw. The coordinates are the same as WQAD, presumably they intend to use the old analog channel 8 antenna. (WQAD-DT will remain on channel 38) With those facilities, if one's getting a decent channel 8 analog signal now, they shouldn't have much trouble with the new station post-Transition.

I vaguely recall some FCC action last year having to do with the ownership of the station - there was an allegation of illegal transfer of control having to do with the way the construction of the station was financed, I think.

I recall that issue, along with one about premature construction before issuance of the CP. (which suggested they were in fact building a channel 53 facility, which does seem a bit strange.)

I'm pretty certain KUES signed on DTV-only. I suppose someone should start compiling a list of stations that signed on DTV-only without ever operating analog. It would include WHDT 59 Stuart FL and KDMI 56 in Des Moines, and there are a few PBS signals that have signed on DTV-only as well - I think the Smoky Hills PBS network in Kansas has one, as does Wyoming PTV in Casper.

The aforementioned WMAK-7 Knoxville, for one. Yes, KWKS-19 in Colby, Kansas signed on as DTV-only.

KPTW-6 is DTV? The CDBS shows their permit as analog, and doesn't list a DTV permit. Of course, the CDBS isn't always right!

 

[w9wi]

Stations that have shut off analog early:

Oh, one more to add to this list:
WTPX-46 Antigo, Wis. (Wausau market) which flash-cut to DTV on channel 46. Like co-owned KPXJ-21, their life as an analog station was pretty short.

 

[justthenumbers]

There's no mention of HDTV (I don't think this station has that yet), but KAZT in Phoenix/Prescott, AZ is shutting off its analog Channel 27 sometime this month, for the following reason (as stated on the page linked below)

"All analog TV stations must make this switch by February 17, 2009. AZ-TV is making the move 13 months early because of interference from a competitor's adjacent digital channel, which has made our analog Channel 27 signal substandard. Switching to digital will remove the interference and provide the best possible service to our viewing area."

http://www.arizonasown.com/Global/story.asp?S=7531350

 

[dhett]

According to the CDBS, which although not perfect, doesn't generally miss things as big as license type, KUES applied for an analog license 12/7/2000, at which time I assume they were program testing. The analog license was issued 9/26/2001. They were then granted a CP to go digital on 1/21/2003. They applied for the digital license 4/29/2003, which was granted 7/22/2003. So it looks like they were analog for about 18 months.

Also according to the CDBS, WTPX Antigo WI never applied for an analog license, so I assume they signed on digital-only.

KPTW Casper WY shows an analog license. Their first-round DTV election shows analog only, and they have elected to flash cut on channel 6.

Other digital-only signons: KRMU 20 Durango CO, WSKA 30 Corning NY, WFBD 48 Destin FL, KOHD 51 Bend OR, KUEW 18 St. George UT, KMDE 25 Devils Lake ND, KCGE 16 Crookston MN, and KGLA 42 Hammond LA (formerly WHMM).

 

[fybush]

According to the CDBS, which although not perfect, doesn't generally miss things as big as license type, KUES applied for an analog license 12/7/2000, at which time I assume they were program testing. The analog license was issued 9/26/2001. They were then granted a CP to go digital on 1/21/2003. They applied for the digital license 4/29/2003, which was granted 7/22/2003. So it looks like they were analog for about 18 months.

Also according to the CDBS, WTPX Antigo WI never applied for an analog license, so I assume they signed on digital-only.

KPTW Casper WY shows an analog license. Their first-round DTV election shows analog only, and they have elected to flash cut on channel 6.

Other digital-only signons: KRMU 20 Durango CO, WSKA 30 Corning NY, WFBD 48 Destin FL, KOHD 51 Bend OR, KUEW 18 St. George UT, KMDE 25 Devils Lake ND, KCGE 16 Crookston MN, and KGLA 42 Hammond LA (formerly WHMM).

I'm pretty sure I was thinking of KUEW when I wrote that KUES had come on digital-only. Never mind...

And I can't believe I forgot WSKA, seeing as how they're right down the road and all!

 

[w9wi]

There's no mention of HDTV (I don't think this station has that yet), but KAZT in Phoenix/Prescott, AZ is shutting off its analog Channel 27 sometime this month, for the following reason (as stated on the page linked below)

"All analog TV stations must make this switch by February 17, 2009. AZ-TV is making the move 13 months early because of interference from a competitor's adjacent digital channel, which has made our analog Channel 27 signal substandard. Switching to digital will remove the interference and provide the best possible service to our viewing area."

The channel 27 transmitter is KAZT-CA, a Class A "low-power" station. Strangely enough, I don't see any digital permit for that station. (I presume they have another license for the digital under different call letters? - I'm sure dhett will chime in with more information on that.)

Ironically, the 2/17/2009 deadline does not apply to the channel 27 transmitter - it could remain on in analog after that date if they wished. The deadline applies only to full-license stations. (like AZ-TV's main transmitter on channel 7 in Prescott)

 

[dhett]

The channel 27 transmitter is KAZT-CA, a Class A "low-power" station. Strangely enough, I don't see any digital permit for that station. (I presume they have another license for the digital under different call letters? - I'm sure dhett will chime in with more information on that.)

Ironically, the 2/17/2009 deadline does not apply to the channel 27 transmitter - it could remain on in analog after that date if they wished. The deadline applies only to full-license stations. (like AZ-TV's main transmitter on channel 7 in Prescott)

There was no digital permit. Because the freeze is still in effect for LPTV, KAZT filed for STA last July - BSTA-20070726AMK - which was granted on 8/16. In a nutshell, KUTP-DT had just gone to their full 1000 kW of power on first-adjacent channel 26, which was causing all sorts of interference to KAZT-CA. Digital facilities that replicated the analog coverage would have been allowed, but would have been so overpowered by KUTP, the interference problem would have been worse. So KAZT filed an STA request to maximize to 15 kW, which would theoretically overcome most of the interference problems.

 

[ansky212]

For instance I have read that it's nearly impossible to notice HIGH DEF from Standard Digital unless your screen is bigger than 25" (some say 33") yet people will be suckered into paying more for things they don't need or can't use.

I have an antenna hooked up to my TV and there is a huge difference between HDTV and standard digital. For example WNBC-4 HD looks great, but 4-2 (NBC Weather Plus) shows a lot of compression. The difference is very noticeable, even on a smaller TV set.

 

[w9wi]

I have an antenna hooked up to my TV and there is a huge difference between HDTV and standard digital. For example WNBC-4 HD looks great, but 4-2 (NBC Weather Plus) shows a lot of compression. The difference is very noticeable, even on a smaller TV set.

That's really not a HD vs. SD thing, but a bandwidth allocation thing. If WNBC were to shut off 4-1 and run only Weather Plus, I think you'd find it would look a lot better, even if it did remain in SD.

Each DTV station gets 19.2MBps of bandwidth. They're allowed to split that bandwidth whatever way they want. The less bandwidth you give a program, the more compression the MPEG encoder has to perform to stuff that program into that bandwidth.

My guess is that NBC has not allocated much bandwidth to 4-2, in order to allow 4-1 to look as good as possible. 4-2 runs a lot of weather maps & graphics, which compress pretty well, so much of the time it can get away without much bandwidth. I suppose when they show live video it probably falls apart fairly quickly.

 

[peterk]

So where are the low cost TV's I don't want to replace my 9" set in the Kitchen with a flat screen. I don't have the wall space.

 

[TexasTom]

Define "low cost"...

I've seen tube-type 13" standard definition sets with built in digital tuners at around $100. Several larger tube sets are available for under $200.

Flat panels are more expensive, with 15" 4:3 flat panels starting at over $200. Last summer, I picked up a portable 7" set with built in digital tuner for $179, but it looks like that set has been discontinued.

 

[dhett]

The List

For the record, here is a list of stations that have shut down their analog signals early to go digital-only, stations that originally signed on digital-only, unpaired analog stations with their ultimate digital channel election, and new station construction permits.

Stations that shut off analog early

State City of License Calls NTSC ATSC Final
----- ---------------- ----- ---- ---- -----
AL Selma WBIH 29 29
AR Camden KKYK 49 49
CA Twentynine Palms KVMD 31 23
FL Leesburg WACX 55 40
KS Dodge City KDCK 21 21
KY Beattyville WLJC 65 7
LA Minden KPXJ 21 21
MS Houston WKDH 45 45
NC Manteo WSKY 4 4 9
NJ Atlantic City WMCN 53 44
NY Kingston WRNN 62 48
Amsterdam WYPX 55 50
Riverhead WLNY 55 57 47
TX Lake Dallas KLDT 55 54 39
UT Price KCBU 3 3 11
Richfield KUES 19 19
VA Goldvein WNVT 53 30
WA Tacoma KWDK 56 42

Stations that signed on digital-only

State City of License Calls ATSC Final
----- --------------- ----- ---- -----
AR El Dorado KETZ 12
CO Durango KRMU 20
FL Tallahassee WTLF 24
Destin WFBD 48
Stuart WHDT 59 44
IA Des Moines KDMI 56 31
KS Colby KWKS 19
LA Hammond KGLA 42
MN Crookston KCGE 16
ND Devils Lake KMDE 25
NE Scottsbluff KTUW 16
NM Santa Fe KNMD 9
NM Farmington KOFT 8
NY Corning WSKA 30
OR Bend KOHD 51
TN Knoxville WMAK 7
Memphis WTWV 14
TX Borger KEYU 31
UT Saint George KUEW 18
WI Antigo WTPX 46

Analog stations with no digital companion channel - will flash cut on analog channel unless otherwise designated

State City of License Calls NTSC Final
----- --------------- ----- ---- -----
AL Tuscaloosa WUOA 23
Gulf Shores WBPG 55 25
AR Harrison KWBM 31
Eureka Springs KPBI 34
Little Rock KKAP 36
El Dorado KEJB 43
AZ Douglas KFTU 3 36
Holbrook KDTP 11
Phoenix KTAZ 39
CA Bishop KBBC 20
CO Durango KTLL 33
FL Marianna WBIF 51
HI Kailua KKAI 50
Waimanalo KUPU 56 38
IA Waterloo KWWF 22
Ames KCWI 23
Ames KEFB 34
Newton KFPX 39
ID Sun Valley KIDA 5 32
Pocatello KPIF 15
Pocatello KFXP 31
Boise KKJB 39
KS Hoisington KOCW 14
Pittsburg KFJX 14
LA Alexandria KBCA 41
New Iberia KLWB 50
MA Pittsfield WNYA 51 13
ME Waterville WPFO 23
MI Ishpeming WBUP 10
Marquette WMQF 19
Bay City WBSF 46
MN Chisholm KRII 11
Bemidji KFTC 26
MS Magee WRBJ 34
Vicksburg WUFX 35
MT Havre KBBJ 9
Lewistown KBAO 13
Missoula KMMF 17
Butte KBTZ 24
Great Falls KLMN 26
NC Greenville WEPX 38 51
ND Minot KXND 24
Bismarck KNDX 26
Grand Forks KCPM 27
NE Lincoln KCWL 51
NM Silver City KOBG 6 12
Albuquerque KTFQ 14 22
Roswell KRWB 21
Carlsbad KTEL 25
NV Ely KVNV 3
Goldfield KEGS 7 50
NY Saranac Lake WCWF 40
Ithaca WNYI 52 20
Syracuse WSPX 56 15
OK Muskogee KQCW 19 20
Woodward KUOK 35
Norman KOCM 46
OR La Grande KUNP 16 29
Grants Pass KBLN 30
SC Myrtle Beach WMBF 32
Columbia WZRB 47
SD Rapid City KNBN 21
TN Tazewell WVLR 48
TX Fredericksburg KCWX 2 8
Abilene KXVA 15
Blanco KNIC 17
Farwell KPTF 18
Midland KUPB 18
Wolfforth KLCW 22
Uvalde KPXL 26
Odessa KWWT 30
Corpus Christi KUQI 38
Longview KCEB 54 38
UT Logan KUTF 12
Salt Lake City KTMW 20
Salt Lake City KPNZ 24
Provo KUTH 32
VA Charlottesville WCAV 19
Virginia Beach WHRE 21
WA Walla Walla KCWK 9
Pullman KQUP 24
Spokane KGPX 34
WI Wittenberg WFXS 55 50
WY Casper KPTW 6
Sheridan KSWY 7
Laramie KWYP 8
Jackson KBEO 11
Casper KCWY 13 12

New construction permits - will likely build digital-only

State City of License Calls ATSC Final
----- ---------------- -------- ---- -----
AK Anchorage 960916KE 9 26
AL Mobile 960920WX 18
CO Greeley KPJR 45
Pueblo KVSN 48
FL Gainesville 960920WR 29
IL Galesburg 951215KK 53 Not yet requested
KS Topeka NEW 22
Derby NEW 46
ME Presque Isle 960920KY 47
MN Duluth KCWV 27
Hibbing WRPT 31
MO Osage Beach KRBK 49
MS Senatobia 961001KI 34
Columbus WMAA 43
Jackson WWJX 51
MT Billings NEW 16
Great Falls NEW 21
NV Ely KBNY 6 27
NY Bath 870331LW 14
TN Memphis NEW 56 10
UT Vernal KBCJ 6 16
Price 960703KK 15

 

[w9wi]

Re: The List

New construction permits - will likely build digital-only

State City of License Calls ATSC Final
----- ---------------- -------- ---- -----
IL Galesburg 951215KK 53 Not yet requested

From somewhere, I have received information that this station will be using channel 8 post-transition. Couldn't possibly tell you where. Their currently-authorized site *is* the WQAD-8 tower south of the Quad Cities, so I would think the channel 8 assignment is plausible.

 

[WPPCProductions]

Hum, I don't see Channel 61 WTIC and Mytv9 channel 59 here in Connecticut on the list.Do they have to vacate the channels before the feb 17-2009 cutoff date, or they stay on the air until the last minute.

 

[dhett]

The FCC is allowing out-of-core stations to go digital-only on a case-by-case basis, however, one of the criteria for being allowed to do so is whether or not they're a top-4 station in the market. I'm guessing that would disqualify WTIC. To my knowledge, WCTX hasn't requested to shut down early, but with a strong enough case, I think they would be allowed to. Another criterion is cable penetration - what is the rate in CT?

The FCC is requiring in-core stations (channels 2 - 51) to remain on the air in analog right up until transition - I think they will be allowed to shut down within 30 days of the transition if their final DTV channel is the same as the analog channel.

 

[KML0224]

WTIC-TV channel 61 of Hartford is a "big four" station (FOX). They're using channel 31 for their digital broadcasting from Rattlesnake Mountain in Farmington, CT (a few miles west-southwest of Hartford). WCTX-TV (MY) channel 59 of New Haven uses channel 39 for their digital broadcasting.

As for cable penetration, Hartford/New Haven has one of the highest rates of cable penetration in the country. At least 85%, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[TexasTom]

Re: The List

New construction permits - will likely build digital-only

State City of License Calls ATSC Final
----- ---------------- -------- ---- -----
CO Greeley KPJR 45

This one will definitely go on the air as a digital station -- the allocation for Greeley is for a digital station, and wouldn't meet the spacing requirements for an analog station.