Any word on analog TV shutdown times on Friday?

[w9wi]

I'll be curious to see how well WMC-TV does on channel 5 with digital. There is a reason why there are very, very few low-band VHF DTVs out there. Being on a tower in-town will help, though

I stumbled across an article last night that is saying that these low banders are going to have a significant reduction in receiveability out past 30 miles and that repeaters are going to have to be used. Any of you engineering type care to comment?

This was the first article I have read that brings this up.

CBS has had SERIOUS problems with their O&O in Chicago, WBBM-TV. It was assigned DTV channel 3, which has not worked out very well.

That said, they also weren't assigned much power. They started with an STA for an entire 1,000 watts to an antenna about 110' lower than their analog. They later got that modified to 2.5kw, then went to a licensed facility at 3.7kw and an antenna 100' *higher* than the analog before finally settling at 4.4kw.

By comparison, WMC will run 34.5kw and WTVF 22kw, both into their existing analog antennas.

My snide comment about the two stations aside, I wonder if the situation might be a lot better at these higher powers?

(WBBM is moving to DTV channel 12, after a Milwaukee station closes its analog operation on that channel and moves to 34)

 

[Kent]

By comparison, WMC will run 34.5kw and WTVF 22kw, both into their existing analog antennas.

My snide comment about the two stations aside, I wonder if the situation might be a lot better at these higher powers?

From what I've heard, that's exactly the question! Most engineers agree that higher power on low-VHF stations will make them much better than what we've seen so far. However, what no one seems to know is exactly how much power is necessary. It will be interesting to find out!

 

[jharmon]

Why is everyone so interested in this topic, unless you have rabbit-ears, you will be fine with cable or satellite tv. After all, there is not much to watch on broadcast tv these days anyway. Except for live studio rasslin on channel 5.

Broadcast tv is suffering the same fate as other media by cutting staffs, reducing services and hoping for better revenue days.

Follow the money trail. It ain't about the news, it's about the dollars.

 

[w9wi]

Why is everyone so interested in this topic, unless you have rabbit-ears, you will be fine with cable or satellite tv. After all, there is not much to watch on broadcast tv these days anyway. Except for live studio rasslin on channel 5.

Broadcast tv is suffering the same fate as other media by cutting staffs, reducing services and hoping for better revenue days.

Follow the money trail. It ain't about the news, it's about the dollars.

(probably the same reason this is "radio-info.com" and not "mp3-player-info.com" )

There is still an audience for OTA TV. It may be only 10% of the audience, but I know of a lot of radio stations that would kill for a 10 share.

 

[DeadElvis]

Much to my delight...

It seems that WREG-3 will NOT be "nightlighting" upon transition. So, their transition couldn't be easier; at 930am, someone will simply turn the channel 3 transmitter off. That's all.

I did notice that WPXX-50 will nightlight. Of course, since it's channel 50, no one will notice.

-DE

 

[anotherguyTN]

I found out that WPTY plans to switch at 12:01 tonight as well. I also found out that WJKT in Jackson will switch some time during the early morning, although they didn't give an exact time, and WBBJ will switch around Noon tomorrow.

WMC is running a trailer, but they apparently aren't doing anything special. I was told that WREG will switch at 9:23, apparently to be during their morning show.

 

[jpanzer]

I'll be curious to see how well WMC-TV does on channel 5 with digital. There is a reason why there are very, very few low-band VHF DTVs out there. Being on a tower in-town will help, though.

I wonder why they haven't attempted to get a better allocation. WHBQ-TV will likely have the best signal OTA in the market, being on high-band VHF after transition.

-DE

It will be interesting to see how well WMC does on that ancient antenna they have as well. Seems with all the money they've spent another $250k or so wouldn't be that much of a hit.

I actually get good reception off the antenna on Crestview.... then again I live less than a mile north of it...

hehehe....

 

[w9wi]

From what I've heard, that's exactly the question! Most engineers agree that higher power on low-VHF stations will make them much better than what we've seen so far. However, what no one seems to know is exactly how much power is necessary. It will be interesting to find out!

Apparently more than 22 kilowatts...

WTVF here in Nashville flipped to digital on channel 5 last night, and it's not working very well at my location. I'm getting a good analog signal from WBBJ (so I know my VHF antenna is still working!) but WTVF-DT, only 18 miles away, is breaking up - it's only working about half the time.

 

[K4WRF]

WTVF is not working down here in Springhill (about 40-miles south of the transmitter, (high-gain antenna pointed right at them), my son over in Chappel Hill is having the same problem, rescan is not picking it up. I can see the WSMV nightlight just fine and WKRN is still programing on Ch-2 analog. Might get out my spectrum analyzer later today if I have time and investigate further, maybe not.....
w/

 

[davidtheworm]

um...I got tired of my kids talking each other like they talk on sponge bob,haven't had cable or satellite for about five years...just an FYI..i am one of the 20% (and cheap)

 

[w9wi]

WTVF is not working down here in Springhill (about 40-miles south of the transmitter, (high-gain antenna pointed right at them), my son over in Chappel Hill is having the same problem, rescan is not picking it up. I can see the WSMV nightlight just fine and WKRN is still programing on Ch-2 analog. Might get out my spectrum analyzer later today if I have time and investigate further, maybe not.....
w/

I take back most of what I said about WTVF-DT on Friday...

When I wrote that, I was having trouble receiving them with my most sensitive receiver - an Insignia converter box.

On Saturday morning, to make sure I could still get PBS, I rescanned the TV itself. The TV is fairly old & its tuner isn't very good. But it found WTVF and locked perfectly.

The difference... At Transition Time early Friday, there was a line of severe thunderstorms moving through Nashville, about 25 miles away. By mid-morning Friday, the storms were gone -- and WTVF was working.

It looks to me as if lightning static KILLS low-band DTV.

But judging from the viewer calls we're getting from the Cumberland Plateau, WTVF is really working pretty well in the absence of storms.

WMC is nearly 50% more powerful than WTVF (albeit on a shorter tower) so I would tend to expect them to work even better in areas within 25 miles or so of the tower. Though maybe not on an indoor antenna. (my antenna is pretty wimpy, but it *is* outdoors - and away from computer noise.)

 

[DeadElvis]

Interestingly, I have had an identical experience. On Friday, during storms, there was no sign of WMC-DT. Today, sans the weather, it's just fine.

Again, I wonder, why WMC allowed this to happen to them.

DE

 

[Phil Gowen]

DE,

No one was able to find WMC-DT this past Friday during the storms because they were forced off the air due to a xmitter site power failure, per wmctv.com at 6pm.

I would say the reason why WMC allowed this to happen to them is due to lack of an auxiliary power source at the site. Having worked in the building through much of the '80s (the Scripps Howard era) that mentality was absolutely unthinkable, provided that's how it actually came down.

BTW, before and after storms, I have yet to get diddley-squat from Digital Channel 5 about 20-25 miles out. According to their service contour map at the FCC site, they ought to be rammin' their signal down my throat where I am, regardless of indoor/outdoor antenna, etc. I have to admit I don't get that aspect of DTV!

 

[DeadElvis]

Well, that does explain their absence on Friday...

But, by wondering how they allowed this to happen, I meant how they allowed themselves to end up on low-band VHF for DTV -- the VHF slums. It really does seem that channels 6 and below are highly undesireable. It's interesting to note that in a month, there will only be 3 full-power channels 4s in the entire country -- and one is moving to UHF. 5 is a bit more crowded -- there are 15 of 'em.

I wonder how many people are actually watching over-the-air DTV...

DE

 

[spin003]

I live in Olive Branch, using a Tivax STB-T8 with an outdoor aerial antenna mounted in my attic. It is pointed toward the tower cluster between Sycamore View and Whitten Road.

I have experienced the signal flutter / lockup on WMC. WREG has been clear. WHBQ has a great signal. WPTY and WLMT have been OK, with only rare flutters.

I use it when my satellite signal fades during thunderstorms, or when I want to watch shows in wide-screen mode that my DVR doesn't record.

 

[robgrayson]

My third-party understanding per TV5... two backup generators with two DEAD BATTERIES.

 

[radiosaur]

Hold on a minute.

WMC-TV has the best backup power around. There are TWO utility feeds. One from the Yale road substation, and one from the Whitten road substation. Either one can run the entire plant. If both of those fail, there are TWO diesel generators, each of which can run the entire plant. True, I left in 1997, but everything was in perfect working order when I did.

unthinkable...and inexcusable.

If WMC-TV went off the air because of a power failure at the transmitter, someone’s head should roll.

 

[w9wi]

But, by wondering how they allowed this to happen, I meant how they allowed themselves to end up on low-band VHF for DTV -- the VHF slums. It really does seem that channels 6 and below are highly undesireable. It's interesting to note that in a month, there will only be 3 full-power channels 4s in the entire country -- and one is moving to UHF. 5 is a bit more crowded -- there are 15 of 'em.

Assuming you're referring to the Kentucky station as the one moving to UHF, much to my surprise they've already completed construction and are already operating on channel 31.

Then there's the station in the Quad Cities. I don't know of any others!

 

[FastBytes]

My third-party understanding per TV5... two backup generators with two DEAD BATTERIES.

Completely irresponsible !

 

[RadeoEngineer]

My third-party understanding per TV5... two backup generators with two DEAD BATTERIES.

Completely irresponsible !

This is not correct. The problems there were far more extensive than this. Those of us with a license to use a screw driver know how things can go south without notice. Sometimes the best laid plans.....and all that.