Anybody know the audience breakdown between 850 and 93.7?

[dumber than a box of hair]

850 covers the entire Boston market with a fat, tailor made, 50kw. 93.7 rimshots the market and couldn't stand alone against 98.5's centrally located, blowtorch signal.

I know stations that would kill for "rimshot" coverage like 93.7.

http://maps.google.com/?q=http://tr...eq=93.7&contour=54&city=LAWRENCE&state=MA.kml

 

[fybush]

850 covers the entire Boston market with a fat, tailor made, 50kw. 93.7 rimshots the market and couldn't stand alone against 98.5's centrally located, blowtorch signal.

Neither WEEI signal is perfect. I think you underestimate 93.7 and somewhat overestimate 850. Since moving to Peabody, 93.7 is quite good downtown (78+ dBu) and of course it smokes the North Shore and does quite well on the South Shore. The spots where it doesn't work are the same spots where nothing works: the Back Bay, where the FMs that are on the Pru cause overload and intermod that wipes any non-Pru signal, and the Needham/Newton area, where the FMs there cause overload and intermod that wipe out any non-Needham/Newton signal on lesser radios. 93.7 is also less than perfect (but pretty darned good) in MetroWest. And 93.7 is the best "Boston" commercial FM signal in the Merrimack Valley and southern New Hampshire, too.

As for 850, it is of course very good in the city and points north at night, and it's better to the northwest than it used to be, now that co-channel CKVL in Montreal is gone. (But there's never a guarantee that something won't once again show up on 850 up there to cause new interference.) Where 850 falls apart after dark is heading west. It may be the second-best Boston AM in Westborough at night, but second-best in this case isn't very good at all.

 

[Fenway1912]

My own observations

Going west on the Pike ( I -90 ) - WRKO vanishes st night at Exit 12 - WEEI is gone by 11-A

Entercom 'solved' the AM problem with WCRN (830) in MetroWest.


I would love to know the full story in how WMEX (1510) got the Red Sox starting with the 1975 post-season.

The story I have heard from the Red Sox side was that Yawkey was FURIOUS that WHDH had become a soft Top-40 outlet and Dick Richmond happily agreed to make WMEX a MOR station. Yawkey lived at the Ritz-Carlton on Arlington St and was fond of WMEX when they were his tenant at 70 Brookline Ave.

In the 1975 post-season the 2 day games of the ALCS at Fenway - WMEX was fine - but Game 3 in Oakland was a night game and there was a problem.

To keep the Sox happy WMEX ( soon to become WITS ) put the games on WWEL at 107.9 from1976-78.

Then when WWEL became WXKS - WITS went to WPLM and when Mariner collapsed the rights went to WPLM.


Mariner Broadcasting should become a Harvard Business School case study. They owned WLW (700) and somehow their suits thought WMEX/WITS at 50K was equal to WLW.

Ya well - not exactly.

850 covers the entire Boston market with a fat, tailor made, 50kw. 93.7 rimshots the market and couldn't stand alone against 98.5's centrally located, blowtorch signal.

Neither WEEI signal is perfect. I think you underestimate 93.7 and somewhat overestimate 850. Since moving to Peabody, 93.7 is quite good downtown (78+ dBu) and of course it smokes the North Shore and does quite well on the South Shore. The spots where it doesn't work are the same spots where nothing works: the Back Bay, where the FMs that are on the Pru cause overload and intermod that wipes any non-Pru signal, and the Needham/Newton area, where the FMs there cause overload and intermod that wipe out any non-Needham/Newton signal on lesser radios. 93.7 is also less than perfect (but pretty darned good) in MetroWest. And 93.7 is the best "Boston" commercial FM signal in the Merrimack Valley and southern New Hampshire, too.

As for 850, it is of course very good in the city and points north at night, and it's better to the northwest than it used to be, now that co-channel CKVL in Montreal is gone. (But there's never a guarantee that something won't once again show up on 850 up there to cause new interference.) Where 850 falls apart after dark is heading west. It may be the second-best Boston AM in Westborough at night, but second-best in this case isn't very good at all.

 

[raccoonradio]

Regarding the tough problem Ent. has with its AMs to the west: WRKO does OK with (most of)
the morning show, financial talk, Ingraham, Brien and most of Howie. WCRN helps the Howie
listeners especially with earlier sunsets. Then they go syndie with (assuming to spillover sports)
Savage, Doyle, and Red Eye. Fans of those shows might be able to get them with other outlets
and post 7 pm RKO may not be as concerned with a poor signal to the west. When RKO had
the Sox, WCRN and the 1440 were a help, etc. As for WEEI, again the main focus is daytime
shows (D&C, M&M, Big Show) then post 6:30 pm or so, Sox or C's or Adams, but now of course
the 93.7 helps.

With the WEEI "network" including 93.7 I would think they manage to cover most of the west.
Using the (don't count on them to be totally accurate) radio-locator maps you can see the
range of WVEI-FM 103.7 Westerly MA (part of Central MA/metrowest, but only the circles ending in purple--distant and blue--fringe; WVEI 1440's "distant" signal by day reaches just past Framingham and up to Fitchburg. 1440's night signal pushes more to the west. Again WCRN
can help them here as far as Sox are concerned.
93.7: Main signal out to Framingham; distant signal out to Worcester and Fitchburg.

850 by day: main signal to just east of Worc., distant signal to just W of Worc.Night signal
def.pushes to the N, E, and S but west is really bad (and for some reason the blue/fringe
doesn't even show up.) The main (red) signal of 850 probably fills in some areas that the others
don't.

If not for its current talk format you wonder if WCRN would be a good augment to WEEI's
network (through carrying as an affiliate or Entercom buying). They at least do the Sox,
mostly at night.

And for the record here is the Sports Hub's signal. Note how far the main and distant signals go:
http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WBZ&service=FM&status=L&hours=U

Would WBZ-FM attempt to branch out with its own network? With B's and Pats, they do have a network all over New England; as for shows, the signal of 98.5 does very well. Whether they'd
attempt to branch out into other parts of New England, who knows. But just that 98.5 signal
and its location, nicely centered, does well.


WCRN days http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WCRN&service=AM&status=L&hours=D
Nights: http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WCRN&service=AM&status=L&hours=N

(In Cle. CBS has a sports talker at 92.3 which doesn't cover the area as well, WKRK 92.3 but
some feel that someday they may switch it to a better signal at, ironically enough, 98.5..
especially if they gets rights to Tribe, Cavs, and or/Browns. I think WTAM 1100 may be flagship of all for now...but you have to wonder there if they'd do FM somehow)

 

[fybush]

Would WBZ-FM attempt to branch out with its own network? With B's and Pats, they do have a network all over New England; as for shows, the signal of 98.5 does very well. Whether they'd
attempt to branch out into other parts of New England, who knows. But just that 98.5 signal
and its location, nicely centered, does well.

CBS decided a few years back that the best strategy was to become specifically a large-market operator. They sold off most of their signals in markets 30 or smaller - here in Rochester and Buffalo, for instance. (Hartford, for now, is an exception, but it's widely believed that CBS would sell there quickly if the right offer came along.)

As long as WBZ-FM covers the Boston market well - and it does - what does CBS gain, bottom-line, by putting its programming in Providence or Manchester or Portland or White River Junction?

 

[iyiyi]

Looking at it that way, what does any Boston station care about listenership outside of 495? Those numbers have no major relevance for the Boston Book.

How has the addition of 93.7 and the "FM" to the WEEI calls increased (or decreased) WEEI's cume and ratings in any way, shape or form?

98.5 got lucky. The Broonz win, Celtics succumb to injuries, Pats go to the Super Bowl and then the Broonz win again. Sox sucked and NBA went on strike, after which the Sox and Celtics sucked yet again. Now the Broonz have laid an egg, the Celtics are in the playoffs, Pat's training camp is over 2 months away from starting AND -- suck or no -- the Sox continue to play to sellout crowds at Fenway Park.

Let's wait and see how this shakes out numbers wise in the next few Books.

-

 

[DanStrassberg]

At least Santos is paying WWZN to put it on.

Santos is definitely NOT paying for the time occupied by the Sox en Espanol on WWZN. He pays for the liberal talk (or a lot of it), but somebody else pays for the Sox broadcasts. Rumor has it that the Sox broadcasts are keeping the station afloat. I've also heard a rumor that WWZN hasn't been paying all of its bills.

 

[DanStrassberg]

850 by day: main signal to just east of Worc., distant signal to just W of Worc.Night signal def.pushes to the N, E, and S but west is really bad (and for some reason the blue/fringe doesn't even show up.) The main (red) signal of 850 probably fills in some areas that the others don't.

Radio-Locator does not display a fringe night contour for AMs. The AM fringe contour is 0.15 mV/m. NO AM's service (NOT EVEN CLASS A AMs like WBZ and WTIC) is protected beyond 0.5 mV/m, which is the contour immediately inside the fringe (blue--I think) contour of the daytime-coverage maps.

 

[fybush]

Looking at it that way, what does any Boston station care about listenership outside of 495? Those numbers have no major relevance for the Boston Book.

Not true. The Boston Arbitron market includes southern Hillsborough County in New Hampshire, northern Worcester County, and all of Plymouth County, a good chunk of which is outside 495. Listeners in any of those areas could be wearing PPM devices, have major relevance to the Boston book, and Boston stations that depend on ratings care about them very much as a result.

 

[iyiyi]

That may well be.

Then, judging by the Boston ratings: The Boston Book must be heavily based INSIDE of 128. Stations WHJY, WGIR,WWLI, PRO-FM and others garnering 10.0s in their markets show 0.3s in Boston ratings. Those signals are "clock radioable" ( maybe with some wire wiggling to get them to come in well ) in at least 1/3 of the Boston market's area. Ratings to signal strength ratios are not in proportion, unless the PPMs inside of 128 carry a great deal of weight. That Book is definitely "Bostoncentric"!

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[fybush]

That may well be.

Then, judging by the Boston ratings: The Boston Book must be heavily based INSIDE of 128. Stations WHJY, WGIR,WWLI, PRO-FM and others garnering 10.0s in their markets show 0.3s in Boston ratings. Those signals are "clock radioable" ( maybe with some wire wiggling to get them to come in well ) in at least 1/3 of the Boston market's area. Ratings to signal strength ratios are not in proportion, unless the PPMs inside of 128 carry a great deal of weight. That Book is definitely "Bostoncentric"!

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Well, yeah - of course. Think about it: Boston-based stations can be received clearly by 100% (or close to it) of the population within the Arbitron Boston market, they feature major-market talent providing content designed to appeal to listeners within the Arbitron Boston market, so it stands to reason they'll do much better in the ratings than stations with similar formats aimed at listeners elsewhere and reaching only a small portion of potential listeners in the larger Boston market.

There is no geographic weighting involved. A PPM respondent in Plymouth or Fitchburg or Nashua isn't discounted, compared to a PPM respondent in West Roxbury. The PPMs are distributed roughly according to population density, so there are certainly more of them (as a raw number) in Suffolk County than in southern Hillsborough County.

Stations that subscribe to Arbitron can see county-by-county breakdowns of their ratings, and I'd expect that WGIR-FM does much better than a 0.3 in southern Hillsborough NH. But even if it pulls a 5-share there (which is not out of the question), that ends up being diluted by the zero share (or close to it) that it's probably pulling in Suffolk and Plymouth and Norfolk counties. Conversely, WHJY and WWLI and WPRO-FM probably get some sort of numbers in Plymouth and parts of Norfolk, but have zero listenership (or close to it) in Suffolk and Middlesex and Essex and Hillsborough.

WGIR-FM doesn't sell to national advertisers based on its reach into the Boston metro, and if it's trying to sell to local advertisers in Nashua (outside the Manchester Arbitron market but within its signal reach), it can show those local advertisers the county breakdowns.

The point will soon be moot: Arbitron is ending public access to data for non-subscribing stations, so unless WGIR-FM pays for the Boston book (and why would it?), it won't show in the publicly-released 12+ Boston numbers much longer.