ANYBODY WATCH THE PBS "JOHNNY CARSON" ON AMERICAN MASTERS

[gregg75]

It was mostly a flattering portrait of Johnny. A few warts were presented but I'm sure a lot were
glazed over.

There was a bit of a generation gap between Johnny and me. I found his show about 70% enjoyable
and 30% dull and boring.

Interesting that 1 1/2 drinks would make him tipsy............and he would then change into an
entirely new persona............that was not enjoyable. One wife said she would leave with one
man and go out on the town and come home with another.

Always a ladies man, one woman had a hard time making him happy. He was not as close with
his sons as most fathers are. I guess with the good sometimes comes the ugly in many cases.

 

[landtuna]

I discovered early on in my life that entertainers are much more satisfying if you separate their private persona's from their stage ones. Johnny was one of those.

 

[FRR]

I watched the program last night. Found it interesting and really enjoyed it. His private life might not have been perfect, but he was great on television

 

[Mark Giardina]

To answer the question: No I did not see the show.

However does anyone remember the interview on Larry King's show where Wayne Newton told King that Carson was a "mean-spirited individual who hurt more people than it will ever be known".

I do remember Joan Rivers comment that when she was offered her own talk show the first person she called was Carson to inform him and he hung up the phone and never spoke to her again.

Rich Little also said that after appearing on "The Tonight Show" for many years, suddenly he was persona Non Grata and Carson would never returns Little's calls as he inquired what happened.

So there are three different people painting the same picture about Carson; and that picture isn't very pretty.

As for his stint as host of "The Tonight Show" Carson did a fantastic job.

 

[bpatrick]

I discovered early on in my life that entertainers are much more satisfying if you separate their private persona's from their stage ones. Johnny was one of those.

Johnny was very much a private person offstage. I think it's why so many of his peers were surprised that when he retired, he wasn't kidding; he made probably no more than three appearances in those last years before he passed away.

I may have told this story concerning Johnny's drinking: it is true that he'd get tipsy if he had more than two. Back when he and Ed McMahon were doing "Who Do You Trust?" they would do the show live at 3:30 Tuesday through Friday, then tape Monday's show on Friday night (Johnny liked his three-day weekends even then). Since there were about three hours between the live Friday show and the taped Monday one, Johnny and Ed would head over to a bar near the ABC studio in New York, and one Friday Johnny may have had one too many because when Ed brought out the first couple Johnny kept asking over and over, "Where are you from? What do you do? Where are you from? What do you do?" Ed thought it hilarious since he knew why Johnny was behaving so strangely, but the show's owner, Don Fedderson, wasn't laughing. When he saw it he caught a plane from LA to New York, got hold of the tape, and sat Johnny down to watch it. "Do you remember any of this?" Fedderson asked him. "I don't remember any of it," answered Johnny. "Well, if it happens again you're fired," said Fedderson. Needless to say Johnny watched his pre-show drinking after that. (Sort of off-topic, but Fedderson had problems with Carson's successor, Woody Woodbury, in this case over the fishing outfit Woodbury wore every day. "Why do you wear it? Why can't you wear a suit and tie like every other host?" Fedderson wanted to know. "I wear this in my nightclub act," said Woody. "Then at least explain to the audience about the getup," said Fedderson, but Woodbury never did, which may have contributed to the show's demise, since nobody understood why he dressed so strangely, not to mention his propensity for making the most innocent remark sound straight out of burlesque, whereas Johnny could make a double-entendre sound innocent.)

 

[Bob1370]

The show was certainly, on the whole, sympathetic to Carson--recognizing his greatness at what he did, and his frequent kindness and generosity, for which he never asked recognition--but it was actually a rather thorough portrait which included the bitter with the better. It also explained a lot of what drove him by highlighting his problematic relationship with his mother, an issue which seems to have colored every aspect of his life other than that 60 to 90 minutes every weeknight when he was live on the NBC stage.

 

[firepoint525]

I do remember Joan Rivers comment that when she was offered her own talk show the first person she called was Carson to inform him and he hung up the phone and never spoke to her again.

I believe the problem there was that someone leaked the information to him before she could tell him herself.

And to confirm what someone said earlier (on one of the FOX 25th anniversary threads), when she made the announcement about her own talk show, it was behind an "FBC" logo. They apparently didn't start calling themselves "FOX" until the following year. Hence this year being FOX's "25th anniversary." Success has 1000 fathers; failure is an orphan.

 

[rwells2265]

Johnny's mother.   Now that WAS a sad relationship.    I watched the program last night, and what I picked up from it was a resentment that her precious daughter wasn't the one who became famous (it was mentioned early in the broadcast that she didn't like boys - they were "messy").   My jaw just about dropped when the magazine interviewer was with his mother while Johnny did a monologue, and she cut it off saying "that wasn't funny."    

What puzzled me above all else about this program was the time spent on Jay Leno's recollections versus Letterman's.   Dave was the one closer to Johnny ("closer" being relative in JC's case), while there was a famously cool relationship between Carson and Leno.  

It was a very good and real treatment of Carson.   And I went away from it depressed as hell -- it's easy to see just how dumbed down the late-night franchise as a whole has gotten in 20 years.  :-/

--Russell

 

[gregg75]

Carson felt as if he had made much of Joan's career. The show hinted that if she had only
called Carson beforehand and told him she had this great offer, he would have given her
his blessing. BUT, he flet she went secretly behind his back, and that's what he didn't like.

So Johnny could be your best friend.......as long as you didn't rock the boat and upset him.

He could never reach a success point high enough for his mother. I'd just say the family
may have been dysfunctional by today's standards..........maybe with a touch of mental illness.

I think in order to see the whole person it is necessary to have both their personal and
semi-private lives presented. A one-sided bio is flat as a pancake.

 

[charles123]

I sure do miss him as Carnac The Magnificent

 

[azumanga]

...to confirm what someone said earlier (on one of the FOX 25th anniversary threads), when she made the announcement about her own talk show, it was behind an "FBC" logo. They apparently didn't start calling themselves "FOX" until the following year. Hence this year being FOX's "25th anniversary."

I believe they started using "Fox" shortly after Joan Rivers' show started -- I recall in US TV Guides that after the start of "The Late Show with Joan Rivers", its affiliates were listed as "FBC", but a couple of weeks later, became identified as "Fox". Canadian TVGs hung on to "FBC" longer, until sometime in the early-1990s.

 

[landtuna]

I was not a regular viewer of The Tonight Show when Carson hosted and didn't think Johnny particularly outstanding.....until Leno and Letterman came along.

 

[anotherguyTN]

One question that I had asked in the earlier thread about Paul Shaffer of why Carson didn't let his preference of Letterman as his replacement be known was kind of answered in the show last night. Apparently NBC didn't ask Carson about who he preferred, which was wrong on their part, but Carson didn't speak up about his preference either, which I think was a big mistake on his part. The transition should have been handled in the same way that the recent deal for Craig Ferguson to replace Letterman was handled, several years in advance. But then Letterman also made the comment that everything turned out for the best for him.

 

[LKellerIII]

Interesting that 1 1/2 drinks would make him tipsy............and he would then change into an
entirely new persona............that was not enjoyable. One wife said she would leave with one
man and go out on the town and come home with another.

An interesting syndrome I'm familiar with. My dad was a functioning alcoholic, and a very nice person under normal circumstances. My childhood friends though he was the nicest of all the dads. When he stuck to beer and wine, he was easy to live with. But when he drank hard liquor (primarily Vodka Martinis), he turned mean and verbally abusive. You could see the change in his facial expressions by the second martini - before he said anything - and if you were smart, you got out of the house for a few hours until he sobered up.

Somebody above mentioned Woody Woodbury. I never saw him on Who Do You Trust, but I recall that he had a syndicated talk show for about a year in the 60s. - distributed by Metromedia, IIRC. Woody came off as kind of stupid, in my opinion. Apparently he "worked blue," and his night-club act was pretty profane. So the material that made him a success was unusable on television.

 

[Bud50]

Yup, saw it...enjoyed it, too. Can't say anything more than what's already been said, but I did learn a few little things about him that I didn't know. A better job than Biography does on Bio Channel...less head-drama. I didn't get to watch a lot of him, but when I did, I enjoyed the show.

No one can top Carson, as he was a consumate entertainer. Even with his warts....

Bud

 

[Fenway1912]

Summer of 1969 I was living in New York and discovered you could always get into a Carson taping on standby ( taped at 5:30 )

I can remember being astonished to see Carson getting a sandwich at the Walgreens in the RCA building.

Watching the show I came away with the impression that NOBODY knew Carson.

Leno said last night that he talked with Carson occasionally after he retired but I doubt that was the case. Carson never forgave Leno for the transition and when Leno never mentioned Carson on-air on his first night that was the final straw.

Carson did at least 2 cameos with Letterman - and let him use Stump the Band and Carnac's crown is occasionally worn by Paul.

 

[firepoint525]

All good discussion, so far.

I think that a major mistake on the part of the 11:30/11:35 talk show host(s) is that he is "heir apparent" in the event that the 10:30/10:35 host retires. Not necessarily so, except maybe in the case of Craig Ferguson, but we will see about that, won't we? ;D

I seem to recall Letterman making jokes about this perceived "pecking order," but, for the most part, it doesn't seem to materialize, does it?

 

[Corky Marlowe]

It also explained a lot of what drove him by highlighting his problematic relationship with his mother, an issue which seems to have colored every aspect of his life other than that 60 to 90 minutes every weeknight when he was live on the NBC stage.

I remember him mentioning his mother once on the show. He said he had called her to tell her he'd won the Governor's Award from the Academy Of Television Arts & Sciences, and she replied, "Well, I suppose they know what they're doing."

 

[Fenway1912]

Keep in mind for over half his run the show was 90 minutes.

NBC did not want to move the show to Burbank as they counted on the 2 trips a year during sweeps to be a formula they didn't want to mess with but when CBS moved Merv Griffin to LA their hand was forced.

I got to meet his brother Dick when there was a Wheel of Fortune remote in Boston years ago. Dick was the director of The Tonight Show but left to work for Merv Griffin. But there was no rift, Dick wanted to prove he didn't need his brother.

 

[Mark Giardina]

Carson's mother sounds like a real bitch. Its no wonder Johnny had women issues all his life (four wives) and perhaps rejection by his mother was main reason he was a loner as an adult.

With the exception of a few people, most successful entertainers grew up with some issues. Many comedians for example are very lonely or depressed individuals in real life but when the curtain goes up or the TV cameras are on they transform into bright and happy people.

Carson's last TV appearance was on the Letterman show as a walk-on and to be honest I was shocked how much weight he had gained in the short time after his retirement. Maybe his health was in decline back then and we, or he, didn't know it. Or maybe he didn't care how he looked anymore since he no longer hosted The Tonight Show.