Station now using a 15 year old Simian automation package. Can anyone tell me where to get a service or operations manual -- ON LINE. BSI was not very helpful.
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Anyone know anything about BSI Simian
- Thread starter MisterGort
- Start date
BSI only makes their latest manual available online. What version do you have? I have some PDF files of manuals for older versions.
If you are going to stay with Simian, you should upgrade to the latest code. The really old stuff had many problems.
Yah... some versions were buggy, but not all. If your system works, you don't need it to do anything more than it does now and you don't need BSI service, then you can get by with what you have just fine.
I just upgraded a system that went back to when they used text keys to unlock the software. The station wouldn't have upgraded even now, but they needed to switch out a couple of Pristine DOS boxes that were on their last legs.
The new software has some nice features though, and upgrades for any older version are only $500.
I just upgraded a system that went back to when they used text keys to unlock the software. The station wouldn't have upgraded even now, but they needed to switch out a couple of Pristine DOS boxes that were on their last legs.
The new software has some nice features though, and upgrades for any older version are only $500.
Definitely upgrade. Running 2.2 at one place and it just goes and goes. For the $500 it will be well worth the money to eliminate many of the bugs in the earlier versions.
The new iPad app for remote control is pretty cool too.
It's not NexGen, but it isn't bad for the price. And it's more stable than some of my other installations of much pricier software.
I thought 15 years ago it was Wavestation, not Simian. That was a real trip. Tried to put one of those in a station and gave up on it.
The new iPad app for remote control is pretty cool too.
It's not NexGen, but it isn't bad for the price. And it's more stable than some of my other installations of much pricier software.
I thought 15 years ago it was Wavestation, not Simian. That was a real trip. Tried to put one of those in a station and gave up on it.
That's what I meant, although you guys said it better. For $500, go to the current code, gain tons of bug fixes and compatibility with modern OS's.
It was Wave Station 15 years ago. We bought a station the tail end of 2009 that signed on with Wave Station in 2000. Music was all MPEG 2 as well.
Scrapped the computers, installed new library on the new computers with the current version of Simian. No major problems since.
Also, I recall that we had problems with an older version of Simian (different station) when we put in a Windows 7 box.
With Wave Station they may be one computer failure away from being dead in the water.
Scrapped the computers, installed new library on the new computers with the current version of Simian. No major problems since.
Also, I recall that we had problems with an older version of Simian (different station) when we put in a Windows 7 box.
With Wave Station they may be one computer failure away from being dead in the water.
S
SuperQ
Guest
If it's doing what you need and not giving you any problems. Let it roll. I have two Simians that are 1.x and keep on trucking. I just inherited another station with 2.2 and am thinking of rolling it back. You now have to either merge logs on the automation computer (which I have to do remotely) or buy a separate piece of software for the traffic machine.
With earlier versions you could merge logs with a demo version or even an old wavestation. I don't need the extra bells and whistles 2.2 provides and since I've been using the stuff since Wavestation, I don't really need to pay for support. In fact, BSI users in this area frequently call me for support because I'm easier to get to.
I guess I'm just showing my crotchety old age. I just took the Audioscience card out of one of the older boxes and went back to the consumer card. Since it is never live assist, it flows nicely because the music was tagged to be that way. And Skype for remotes and ball games plays much nicer with the consumer card than the ASI. And with the mic in, line in, aux in, and CD in all properly padded, I've got all the remote inputs I need.
With earlier versions you could merge logs with a demo version or even an old wavestation. I don't need the extra bells and whistles 2.2 provides and since I've been using the stuff since Wavestation, I don't really need to pay for support. In fact, BSI users in this area frequently call me for support because I'm easier to get to.
I guess I'm just showing my crotchety old age. I just took the Audioscience card out of one of the older boxes and went back to the consumer card. Since it is never live assist, it flows nicely because the music was tagged to be that way. And Skype for remotes and ball games plays much nicer with the consumer card than the ASI. And with the mic in, line in, aux in, and CD in all properly padded, I've got all the remote inputs I need.
Well -- I think that we are using the Wave station 2.71. Can anyone tell me the good and bad points of using this older system ?
I'll say this and then I'm bowing out of this discussion...
As an IT professional, I disagree with running legacy software that has no potential for support, if there is a reasonable upgrade path available. To each their own, but my automation will always use professional sound cards or AOIP. I oversee too many systems to be worried about a cheap audio card with a poorly written driver killing our revenue stream in the middle of the night.
With that said, I (personally) was never a fan of the reliability of Wave Station. If you can get to Simian for 500 dollars and have a code base that a trouble ticket can be easily resolved, I (personally) recommend it.
If you've only got one station, no family, loads of free time, and don't mind... Keep the old stuff, wait for the 2AM call and then you'll upgrade, because your new system won't have drivers for the old stuff.
All my *personal* opinion, but you asked for advice and that's mine. Good sound card (Audio Science with BSI). Also, when using BSI products, remember to disable hyperthreading and multiple cores. Their software isn't written to take advantage of threading and it affects the long term stability. I disagree with BSI for not providing a properly threaded piece of software in this day and age, but it does work and if you take the time to learn how to write Macro's, etc, you can literally make Simian do damn near anything.
As an IT professional, I disagree with running legacy software that has no potential for support, if there is a reasonable upgrade path available. To each their own, but my automation will always use professional sound cards or AOIP. I oversee too many systems to be worried about a cheap audio card with a poorly written driver killing our revenue stream in the middle of the night.
With that said, I (personally) was never a fan of the reliability of Wave Station. If you can get to Simian for 500 dollars and have a code base that a trouble ticket can be easily resolved, I (personally) recommend it.
If you've only got one station, no family, loads of free time, and don't mind... Keep the old stuff, wait for the 2AM call and then you'll upgrade, because your new system won't have drivers for the old stuff.
All my *personal* opinion, but you asked for advice and that's mine. Good sound card (Audio Science with BSI). Also, when using BSI products, remember to disable hyperthreading and multiple cores. Their software isn't written to take advantage of threading and it affects the long term stability. I disagree with BSI for not providing a properly threaded piece of software in this day and age, but it does work and if you take the time to learn how to write Macro's, etc, you can literally make Simian do damn near anything.
On that, I fully agree.
The software was written for ASI cards, and it clearly works best with them.
About the only thing I've trusted a non-ASI installation with was a Christmas web stream. The owner didn't care much if it crashed. It didn't, but I wouldn't leave it alone in an airchain.
The software was written for ASI cards, and it clearly works best with them.
About the only thing I've trusted a non-ASI installation with was a Christmas web stream. The owner didn't care much if it crashed. It didn't, but I wouldn't leave it alone in an airchain.
Grounded Grid said:
One of the reason(s) BSI Simian is so "cheap" is it relies heavily on windows API to do a lot of things -- thus the reason it works well with ASI Cards -- BSI never dabbled into the ability to do Directsound/Direct X support that some of the other automation systems did to make 3rd party cards work well.. BSI relies heavily on ASI which does a lot of things in "hardware" on their cards and has a specific software driver to interface with that hardware.
The trade off is that BSI Simian can be made to work with pretty much any system and hardware out there - [no need to purchase a high-end DELL machine from the software manufacture like you do with most other automation systems].. the trade off though is that you MUST follow BSI guidelines for the software to "behave"
Many many years ago I did IT consulting/Programming consulting for a very small rural FM .. They ran Wave Station then moved to Simian -- I built custom machines using Windows 2000 Pro at the time (with the recommended ASI Cards) and the system worked well including the massive amount of background recording done at the time (Christian music / teaching format) with only two "staffers" and it ran and ran without much fiddling -- Lightning hits took it down more than actual software issues.
That is indeed a big advantage for Simian. No proprietary hardware, works well on most medium level PC's, and is easily re-installed in the event of hardware failures.
I can remember well having a computer die one weekend & driving 100 miles to Columbus to pick up a replacement--the local Office Depot was in one of their periodic restocking cycles and didn't have much. In the meantime we piped through the satellite feed (classic rock). Once I got back it was a simple matter of re-installing Simian & getting the external trigger and relay cards working. The spots were backed up on the production computer, fill music on a portable drive, log just reloaded from the traffic computer. All in all a nuisance more than a tragedy.
Computers....are toasters. That is, you can buy a cheap toaster or a deluxe toaster, but both just brown bread & occasionally pitch the slices half-way across the kitchen. No matter how much money you spend on a computer they still use a lot of parts in common that will fail on Christmas Eve.
I can remember well having a computer die one weekend & driving 100 miles to Columbus to pick up a replacement--the local Office Depot was in one of their periodic restocking cycles and didn't have much. In the meantime we piped through the satellite feed (classic rock). Once I got back it was a simple matter of re-installing Simian & getting the external trigger and relay cards working. The spots were backed up on the production computer, fill music on a portable drive, log just reloaded from the traffic computer. All in all a nuisance more than a tragedy.
Computers....are toasters. That is, you can buy a cheap toaster or a deluxe toaster, but both just brown bread & occasionally pitch the slices half-way across the kitchen. No matter how much money you spend on a computer they still use a lot of parts in common that will fail on Christmas Eve.
TomT said:
Considering the cost of the "toasters", it's not a bad idea to have a computer already on hand ready to go since Office Depot isn't open on Christmas Eve.
We did, but it was rather underpowered. Later that afternoon we were back up with a box with more RAM and bigger HD.
But that's my point--in an emergency you could re-purpose another computer as an air machine by simply swapping over the sound card, installing Simian and activating the "dongle."
But that's my point--in an emergency you could re-purpose another computer as an air machine by simply swapping over the sound card, installing Simian and activating the "dongle."
MisterGort said:
yeah, stay away from it if you can.. that's what I know lol
WNTIRadio said:
Stable? hardly.
it's the biggest pile of dung I've ever used. Clunky, fidgety, junky piece of crap that did the oddest things for no reason.
Several people at different stations with different versions agree with me.
It's not my most hated automation program.. that honor goes to The Phantom.
Well, I sure haven't experienced that kind of trouble.
I have three multi-instance Simian systems running. Two are 3-instances and the other's a 4, all running multiple switchers with their own trigger sets. They've been rock-solid for years. Two of them have been upgraded to version 2.2 and are as stable as much older versions I've had around here.
5 other stations I take care of have single Simians, and they've been fine, too.
Most problems with the system can be sourced to configuration, computer / processor type and individual programming style. The quirks the system has (don't most of them?) can be worked around, given a little time and ingenuity.
For the money, the software is more than worth it. Being able to replace everything with off-the-shelf parts is worth it by itself.
I have three multi-instance Simian systems running. Two are 3-instances and the other's a 4, all running multiple switchers with their own trigger sets. They've been rock-solid for years. Two of them have been upgraded to version 2.2 and are as stable as much older versions I've had around here.
5 other stations I take care of have single Simians, and they've been fine, too.
Most problems with the system can be sourced to configuration, computer / processor type and individual programming style. The quirks the system has (don't most of them?) can be worked around, given a little time and ingenuity.
For the money, the software is more than worth it. Being able to replace everything with off-the-shelf parts is worth it by itself.
SomeRadioGuy said:
Ever thought that it was the platform you were trying to run it on and not the program? I've never had a problem with Simian when it's correctly installed/configured and run on a good upper-mid level PC. Try to run it on an under powered box, and you get what you got.
Also, make the C:\ drive a solid state one. Will make it a LOT faster and much less crash prone. No spinning disks running your OS makes for a much better computer.
I've even taken what were slower boxes and popped an SSD in for a stream server and they wind up being decent.
For what it is, Simian is not a bad program once you get past the learning curve. Sure, I would love to have NexGen at all of my stations, but not all of them have NexGen money. For a budget, it's about the best you can get. Yes I know there are other systems that run on Linux etc., but I'm talking about a regular windows machine.
I've even taken what were slower boxes and popped an SSD in for a stream server and they wind up being decent.
For what it is, Simian is not a bad program once you get past the learning curve. Sure, I would love to have NexGen at all of my stations, but not all of them have NexGen money. For a budget, it's about the best you can get. Yes I know there are other systems that run on Linux etc., but I'm talking about a regular windows machine.
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