Anything We Can Do for Classical Music Radio in Boston?

[mgpt6]

90.3 wont happen. If price is right ,99.1 may be for sale.

 

[HHH]

If 90.3 won't happen (even tho we already have five or six college stations in the city), how about this one (I think someone mentioned this, or a variation of this):

104.9

WGBH buys WBOQ 104.9. They also pay off WRBB to go dark (or maybe give them the 96.3 repeater frequency...move it to Northeastern campus. WRBB is flea power anyway, and (I think) the FCC and WSRS might go for it, since it would place the signal deeper into the city
further away from WSRS.

Move 104.9 to Zion Hill. Class "A" from up there should look into the city OK, but not carry much further toward Providence. Maybe directional bite toward Providence (SW). Boston is SE of Woburn, I think.

Buy WPLM-FM 99.1 to complete the three way.

Even if they buy 99.1, it still won't help the city too much without a third station or repeater for in-town. Both 99.5 and 99.1 rimshot the city about equally, I think.

 

[Eli Polonsky]

Move 104.9 to Zion Hill. Class "A" from up there should look into the city OK, but not carry much further toward Providence. Maybe directional bite toward Providence (SW). Boston is SE of Woburn, I think.

This won't happen, but if it did, there's also a 104.7 on Cape Cod which also limits WBOQ from covering farther south. From Woburn, that would be southeast, the same direction as Boston from there.

 

[pqgeorge]

I still think the answer for WCRB is to have a three way simulcast:

99.5 from Lowell (North Shore, Lowell-Lawrence, Southern NH)

99.1 (purchase WPLM-FM) from Plymouth. (South Shore, Cape, part of Rhode Island)

90.3 (purchase or lease from Boston College). Move antenna to One Financial Center (WHRB/WFNX/WERS site). 90.3 is short spaced to WGBH but I don't think that GBH would dispute their own service). This would cover the city. WCRB is now a non-comm so this could be done.

The only logical way to further "propagate" the WCRB Classical service (in addition to 99.5/Lowell) is to put WCRB on the 96.3 translator (in lieu of WGBH) for the people in Back Bay. Simply have 'GBH contact the Commission to get permission to change a few dip-switches on the on-air receiver at W243AA in order to change the input frequency to 99.5. That would take one quick call to Washington and one quick 10 minute visit to MIT. Simulcast the WCRB signal on 89.7 HD-2 (which it is probably doing right now if it hasn't already). Finally, use a computer to listen to the live stream of WCRB on-line.

WRBB (104.9) is doing just fine as Northeastern's radio voice "Radio Back Bay", serving the Back Bay. WBOQ (104.9) is doing just fine with their locally produced Oldies format which I find a better selection of tunes, as compared to WODS. WPLM-FM 99.1 in Plymouth is doing just fine with its' Easy Listening format which DOES have a strong audience South of Boston and in the Providence area. And I think the folks (students and alums alike) at WZBC (90.3) also are happy the way things are there, as well.

The last thing WGBH management wants to hear is "squawks" about the signal of 99.5. I live south of Boston about 50 miles from WCRB's Andover site. In the car, in the house and on-line, it comes in just fine. And yes, I get their HD signal as well with few drop outs. I can't say anything about the loss of the Blues and Folk programming on WGBH-FM. I agree, the way 'GBH "stuck it" to the faithful was wrong. Putting yet MORE news and information on a full-100,000 watt FM Stereo station in lieu of the quality programming that personified 89.7 is a waste of that great clean signal. Boston news radio is already well served by both WBUR on-air and on-line, WBZ has been doing news and information for eons. That's all I'll say on that issue. I think NPR is already well served just as it is. Two full powered FM's running "All Things Considered" is too much as it is.

For the Classical listener, this is the way it is. Use the above means I have just mentioned about to get WCRB over the air and on-line. If WCRB doesn't cut it, try WFMT (98.7)/Chicago, WQXR (105.9)/Newark,NJ/New York OR try the world-famous KING-FM (98.1)/Seattle, WA on-line. All are fine Classical stations among many others that are also on-line. Those are the options. Use them and support them, don't gripe about it. The more you complain and not support Classical music, eventually it could be pulled. As the late Walter Cronkite said..... "That's the way it is.......".

 

[HHH]

"This won't happen, but if it did, there's also a 104.7 on Cape Cod which also limits WBOQ from covering farther south. From Woburn, that would be southeast, the same direction as Boston from there."

I don't think a class "A" power from Zion needs to be cut to protect Orleans....that's pretty far. But maybe.

Are the owners of WBOQ making money? I'll bet WPLM is profitable, but not sure about WBOQ.

Anyway, it does not matter. If the money is good enough, they will sell. Not sure how deep the pockets of WGBH are.

I like the "on channel repeater" idea of 99.5 for the city proper. Will the FCC allow that?

 

[Romy The Cat]

For the Classical listener, this is the way it is. Use the above means I have just mentioned about to get WCRB over the air and on-line. If WCRB doesn't cut it, try WFMT (98.7)/Chicago, WQXR (105.9)/Newark,NJ/New York OR try the world-famous KING-FM (98.1)/Seattle, WA on-line. All are fine Classical stations among many others that are also on-line. Those are the options. Use them and support them, don't gripe about it. The more you complain and not support Classical music, eventually it could be pulled. As the late Walter Cronkite said..... "That's the way it is.......".

Well, I do not feel that it is a lost battle. There are many negative signs of GBH “strange” management – starting from the killing the Friday Broadcasts and ending with the converging the WGBH 99.5 into the DJ-type stupid programming station, aka WCRB use to be. The damning and trivialization of the 99.5 program have been observable over the month of the 99.5 operation. I hope the WGBH administrations will be able to response to the issues during the coming meeting on January 5th.

Not everything is so horrible. Disregarding the reception, the quality of audio sound from the new WGBH 99.5 is very-very good. Much better than it was at GBH 89.7 and order of magnitude better then it was at WCRB. If 99.5 will address the issues with Boston reception and find an administration that would have an interest to keep a torch of cultural classical music programming in Boston burned then I think it would not be so bad.

 

[TheBigA]

I hope the WGBH administrations will be able to response to the issues during the coming meeting on January 5th.

If that meeting goes the way of similar meetings in other cities, the GBH management will place the responsibility on the classical music community to put their money where their mouth is, and demonstrate their financial support. They didn't buy this station to destroy it, but rather to motivate a fan base that has the wherewithall to contribute a lot for what they want. As Peter George said, it all comes down to the money. The programming and the signal will follow the money. The reason GBH runs so much news is it attracts a lot of money. If the classical music community can meet the money challenge, they can get anything they want. If not, classical music will be relegated to overnights in a few years.

 

[Romy The Cat]

If that meeting goes the way of similar meetings in other cities, the GBH management will place the responsibility on the classical music community to put their money where their mouth is, and demonstrate their financial support. They didn't buy this station to destroy it, but rather to motivate a fan base that has the wherewithall to contribute a lot for what they want. As Peter George said, it all comes down to the money. The programming and the signal will follow the money. The reason GBH runs so much news is it attracts a lot of money. If the classical music community can meet the money challenge, they can get anything they want. If not, classical music will be relegated to overnights in a few years.

TheBigA,

I do not think that money argument would win anything in this. We all aware that classical music does not get converted easily into cash flow, particularly nowadays. The 99.5 would make more money selling the in-house pets incineration devises like the 96.9FM does and appealing to a common lower denominator as Joseph Goebbels suggested. I think that only affective argument could be made is that BSO broadcasts and serials classical programming is right things to do to maintain cultural heal of the city. The 99.5 after all is NPR station. We help people in Africa not because it is profitable but because we can and we feel that it is right things to do. Perhaps my position is a bit idealistic but it is what it is. If we appeal to a biasness scene of those people then I feel that GBH management (at least what I have seen so far) is not too advantageous. I think that appeal to civil consciousness is more affective. After all if we get rid of Boston Museum of Fine Art and sell the land to condo developer then I am sure it will bring more money. We do not do it, so why we cancel the Friday Broadcast? Because the BSO is weak, because we have no music director and because the GBH management does not give a damn? Well, I hope the subject would develop more advocacy from the community.

The Cat

 

[TheBigA]

I think that appeal to civil consciousness is more affective.

That might work if GBH was a big and profitable corporation looking for a tax-write-off. But they aren't.

They see themselves as recipients of civil consciousness. So they will turn it around on you. The classical community has the money. Commercial classical stations like WCRB made millions off that community for years, until the audience got too old for traditional advertisers. Non-commercial radio doesn't care as much about the age of the audience. Older audiences have more personal wealth. They need to share it with their favorite radio station. This is why GBH bought the station. This is what the station management will tell you at the meeting. They are a charity.

 

[Eli Polonsky]

The only logical way to further "propagate" the WCRB Classical service (in addition to 99.5/Lowell) is to put WCRB on the 96.3 translator (in lieu of WGBH) for the people in Back Bay. Simply have 'GBH contact the Commission to get permission to change a few dip-switches on the on-air receiver at W243AA in order to change the input frequency to 99.5. That would take one quick call to Washington and one quick 10 minute visit to MIT.

W243AA is really too weak to offer any degree of solution. Drive around the area and try listening to it, and you'll hear what I mean. That five watts directional looks better on paper than what it really is in effective coverage. I think that people who suggest that it could be any kind of player probably haven't actually listened to it in the area.

Simulcast the WCRB signal on 89.7 HD-2 (which it is probably doing right now if it hasn't already).

It has been simulcasting on 89.7 HD2 since WGBH took on-air control of WCRB. My mom is enjoying it on the HD radio I bought for her (because 99.5 reception is poor where she is).

 

[Romy The Cat]

That might work if GBH was a big and profitable corporation looking for a tax-write-off. But they aren't.

They see themselves as recipients of civil consciousness. So they will turn it around on you. The classical community has the money. Commercial classical stations like WCRB made millions off that community for years, until the audience got too old for traditional advertisers. Non-commercial radio doesn't care as much about the age of the audience. Older audiences have more personal wealth. They need to share it with their favorite radio station. This is why GBH bought the station. This is what the station management will tell you at the meeting. They are a charity.

I see your point. Not necessarily that I agree with it but I see that GBH might use your argument as a self-excuse. After all, the people who want they’re looking for motivations, the people who do not want they are looking for justifications… Still, I would like to see what was in the head of the Moron who ordered to pull the Friday broadcasts off.

Again, I asked this question multiple times and different peoples: what option we, the public, have now to bring our Friday broadcasts back? The BSO broadcasts are not the GBH property – it is a public domain. The GBH is the only station in town that able to pull it off and they solicit money from public domain. Of cause it does not mean that GBH has legal obligation. Still BSO is the main Boston orchestra and 99.5FM positions itself to be classical music servant. The Friday broadcasts has no addition cost besides the announcer and it only lacks a will and basic intelligence of the GBH. I mention the “basic intelligence” as GBH claimed on record that Friday and Saturday broadcasts are “duplicated programs” – how more stupid a response might be!!!

I hope that this forum might be a useful place to talk about the subject. I am new here and as I can see this forum is mostly for broadcast industry professionals. I was accused for being “armature” that is ridicules accusation in my view. I am not working in broadcast fields and I am a listener. As a listener I took my listening/receiving participation as far as possible, I love the live FM events, I listen and I record selected events and frankly I am one of those the entire broadcasts industry lives and dies to serve. I understand that among broadcast professionals it might not be a lot of people who care what they broadcast …. Still, I feel that what is going on with 99.5’s Friday broadcasts is injustice and today unfortunately only voices of “armatures” like me are heard in protest. What I am trying to do explore if you guys, who are so snobbish about own professionalism, have any position or any take on the 99.5’s Friday broadcasts subjects. The Intelligencer took a stand and nowadays leads a public opinion of disapproval the GBH actions. I think if some of you, the industry insiders, might join the Intelligencer efforts then the Intelligencer position backed up but your expertise would be just stronger.

The Cat

 

[aaronread]

90.3 (purchase or lease from Boston College). Move antenna to One Financial Center (WHRB/WFNX/WERS site). 90.3 is short spaced to WGBH but I don't think that GBH would dispute their own service). This would cover the city. WCRB is now a non-comm so this could be done.

Oh my, where to begin? Okay, to start off I'll lay out the street cred - I was WZBC's (contract) Chief Engineer from 2003 to about 2006. I lived less than six blocks from their studios for two of those years, so I spent a lot of time there, both officially and unofficially.

WZBC lost any chance it had of realistically moving to a downtown skyscraper when WSMA was granted a CP. Theoretically, it CAN be done, but only by employing an unattractively low ERP (few hundred watts) and a very directional antenna.

WZBC can move northward to higher ground...the old WFNX antenna in Malden or Zion Hill are good examples...and employ a directional antenna to protect WSMA and WICN and still increase both power and height to cover up towards the Merrimack Valley a LOT better. However, there's no benefit in terms of downtown (Boston/Cambridge) coverage from such a move, and it would increase their annual expenses. In fact, if anything their downtown coverage would get worse (there's a reason why WFNX was so hellbent to move to One Financial Center) and their campus coverage would go in the toilet. For a "college radio" station, it is politically a VERY bad move to have poor coverage on campus; it puts to lie the argument that you exist for the students' benefit. Whether that argument is really true or not is irrelevant; if you get money from the college (especially if it's from a Student Activity Fee, which I believe WZBC is) then you MUST claim that you serve the students.

There's also the issue that there's literally nowhere to put WZBC on the roof of OFC. There's no more room on the towers (I know the CE's of both WHRB and WERS and we've chatted extensively about this) and it was a major trick getting WFNX up there; required some clever antenna placement (i.e. expensive) and quite a lot of filtering (also expensive).

Also, things may have changed since 2006, but I doubt it, and that means WZBC has no ambitions to be anything more than it already is. In fact, they actively prefer the "fly under the radar" aspect of the operation.

And they've also recently invested a pretty penny on the existing transmitter site on top of Cheverus Hall of BC; that tower is - IIRC - less than 10 years old (15 at most), the antenna array, RF cabling, and transmitter were all bought and installed in 2003 (I did that with David Maxson) and they added proper HVAC to the transmitter closet in 2007 or 2008. The idea of paying all that money over again for a new transmitter site...and then paying tower rent...would cause jaws to hit the floor in the McElroy studios!!!

Finally, regardless of what WGBH would want for a move of WZBC, that wouldn't be enough. First, there's also WBUR to factor into the equation. Second, one reason the FCC denied WGBH's move to the Needham/Newton towers (i.e. FM-128, etc) was because of WZBC. That was DESPITE the explicit consent of WZBC to WGBH's plan. IIRC, the reasoning was that WGBH was not causing any new additional interference to WZBC that WZBC wasn't already receiving from WBUR and the blanketing interference from the other Needham/Newton tower stations. In fact, the new result would actually be decreased interference since the interference zone at Great Blue Hill would disappear. Problem was, the FCC didn't buy it - they decreed that ALL the new interference from WGBH alone at Newton/Needham would be counted, and when you counted it that way...it was an increase in the total population receiving interference to WZBC. WGBH *could* have reduced ERP to shrink the interference zone at Needham/Newton...but it was a pretty hefty decrease, IIRC. Something like going from 40kW ERP to 18. Shame, I would've liked to have the quid pro quo...

Oh yes, there's also the slight issue of the riots on campus and the community if BC ever tried to undercut WZBC like you propose. You might remember that UMass Lowell tried something similar with WUML and that went rather badly for all parties involved. You should've seen the tension and threats flying back when the decision was made to hire a part-time professional GM for the station. The community DJ's were freaking out, the students were freaking out, and the listeners were freaking out. In that aspect, Judy was the perfect hire for that role - she's done an admirable job soothing the savage beasts while gradually moving WZBC towards overall betterment.

FWIW, I have been told that various religious broadcasters, in the past, have offered well north of seven figures to buy WZBC outright from BC, and they have consistently been rebuffed. You might say "that was before the economic crash of 2008 wrecked BC's budget" and that's true, but it also means that WZBC's value has fallen to the point where the political fallout is not worth the (relatively) small dollar value that a WZBC sale would bring. Not compared to the overall billions-dollar budget.

 

[aaronread]

Again, I asked this question multiple times and different peoples: what option we, the public, have now to bring our Friday broadcasts back? The BSO broadcasts are not the GBH property – it is a public domain.

Well, WHRB is as stubborn as any college radio outlet, but it's possible (albeit unlikely) you could convince them to carry the BSO Friday nights. They air classical already and doing something that's for direct benefit of a niche audience is keeping in line with their overall style of operation. But you'd have to do these things:

• A compelling financial case would have to be made. And not just that "there's money to be had out there"...it's got to be "zero-cost, or near-zero cost, to do it" and also that money would just "roll in the door". WHRB doesn't have the staff to effectively leverage BSO broadcasts to make money off them. Probably what you'd have to do is have the BSO lease the time from WHRB outright and then use the airtime...under WHRB's direct supervision...to sell underwriting to make up the cost.
• You'd need an "in" with someone on-staff there who believes that the BSO broadcasts are a good thing AND has "street cred" with the existing management board. Such a person(s) may or may not exist.

Mind you, I have no idea what the BSO broadcasts would displace on WHRB...so it's possible whatever's already there is untouchable to begin with.

BTW, I don't think the BSO broadcasts are public domain, are they? Certainly the performance isn't...it's the BSO's copyright on that. They may choose to release it immediately into the public domain, but that's their choice. Then again, IANAL...especially not a copyright lawyer.

 

[DanStrassberg]

BTW, I don't think the BSO broadcasts are public domain, are they? Certainly the performance isn't...it's the BSO's copyright on that. They may choose to release it immediately into the public domain, but that's their choice. Then again, IANAL...especially not a copyright lawyer.

Does anyone know whether WCRB/WGBH or the BSO itself continue to record the Friday BSO rehearsals even though they are no longer being broadcast? If so, doesn't it seem likely that those recordings will eventually be broadcast? And if so, wouldn't that prove that the protest meeting and this whole discussion have been a colossal waste of time?

 

[Deleted User]

Once again Romy, the 99.5 signal is what it is, it isn't going to get any better. Period, end of discussion.

WGBH isn't going to lay out any more money for radio facilities in the near future, they just dropped huge money for CRB abd they are having enough trouble with cash flow as it is. No other Boston station is going to want to get into bed with WGBH if they can avoid it.

I would bet that the WGBH Educational Foundation has some pretty good lawyers on staff, and in the contract with the BSO, there is language that The WGBH Educational Foundation holds the exclusive rights to broadcast and syndicate all performances by the BSO.

The last thing GBH/CRB wants is another station begging for money from classical listeners to keep the programming on anther station that has acquired the rights to the Friday broadcasts.

IMHO the only solution it to find someone with deep pockets to underwrite the Friday broadcasts production costs to the point that GBH can't refuse the money on the table, enough money to make them unable to refuse it. In this economy you would be hard pressed to find that amount of cash.

 

[Romy The Cat]

BTW, I don't think the BSO broadcasts are public domain, are they? Certainly the performance isn't...it's the BSO's copyright on that. They may choose to release it immediately into the public domain, but that's their choice. Then again, IANAL...especially not a copyright lawyer.

Well, I use phrase “public domain” very loosely, not from legal perspective. BSO does not charge a radio station for the rights to broadcast live the concerts. As I can see it: BSO make itself available to public. Then the question is: who comes to the table and take the opportunity? From this perspective I feel that BSO live events are free public events delivered to public by GBH. One my say that since the GBH pay to announcer and since the broadcast feed passed the GBH network then the Friday BSO broadcast is a GBH’s product. It certainly so but I also feel that since BSO releases the broadcast right with intend to serve public, not the intend to benefit GBH then it is not just a simple GBH’s product. It is like as an oil company that is financed by public, that was given for free public land to drill and that has oil-manning process that virtually has no cost. So, this coapnsy suddenly decided that they do not what make oil anymore. I mean the public invested trust by giving the public land with oil for free, presuming the in the hands of the given company it would serve public interest… I am sure that it all makes a dummy legal argument but I do not argue the legality of the subject but rather I demonstrate the point of a regular Friday BSO broadcast listener. We, the listeners have an PBS station, we have BSO that give to up free rights to broadcast and we have the a station that screws us (public) up bu giving up the broadcast WITHOUT ANY REASON.

Now, somebody “ned” on second page of this thread said: “Its official, WGBH 89.7 will flip to all-classical on 1/30/10. 99.5 will go to NPR news/talk” Is it an Internet BS talks of anybody has any inside into it?

Rgs, Romy the Cat

 

[Romy The Cat]

MRBIboredop,

I think you confuse the subject. It is more about the discontinuation of the Friday broadcasts not about the quality signal in Boston. It is partially my fault as I was excited that this forum has a lot of FM-experienced people and they might advise some “kinky” reception techniques to get 99.5 in Boston cleaner. Looking the responses I recognize that I was wrong and it looks like that folks in here are not so much experienced with the reception side. So, I would more stress the subject of the Friday broadcasts and live the reception alone.

If we have an alternative station that able to cares the broadcasts then it would be a different subject but we do not. The 95.3 is a different station and they would not care the burden. Even 3 year back GBH did the Boston Lyric live broadcasts, not any longer. Who the hell need a LOCAL FM station that do not conduct LIVE broadcasts of local events? This is the whole point to have such a station!

The Cat

PS: actually I just posted and realized that you, MRBIboredop, was the guy who responsed very first. Looking what you have also said you might disregard my posts – I have no interest in your views.

 

[TheBigA]

BSO does not charge a radio station for the rights to broadcast live the concerts. As I can see it: BSO make itself available to public.

I don't know where you get that information. I've worked at several public radio stations that had relations with major classical orchestras, and we NEVER got those performances for free.

Start with the musicians. They usually are members of the union, and therefore each gets a broadcast performance fee as well as contributions made to the union health and medical plan. I would expect that the BSO is a union shop, and therefore the musicians get paid.

The recording itself costs money, in terms of the staff required to handle engineering, production, and even the stage hands who place the mics. They all get paid.

Then the orchestra itself generally gets some kind of remuneration, either through their own sponsorship, that would get mentions on the station, some form of in-kind contributions, or a percentage of the station's ad revenues. The orchestra usually has some say in how their performance is used, such as when it airs.

The only thing in the "public domain," so to speak are the compositions, if they are older than covered under copyright law. Modern compositions would also require a performance fee.

I imagine that GBH dropped the Friday performance because it had a smaller audience, and therefore less valuable to the station. It would be cheaper to play label recordings than original performances because of the fees involved. That's just my guess.

One more thing: You have a very strange interpretation of the "public interest." Losing money or operating a radio station at a loss is not in the public interest. Listener support is the best way of demonstrating public interest. If it's not there, then it's not in the public interest to do it.

 

[Romy The Cat]

I don't know where you get that information. I've worked at several public radio stations that had relations with major classical orchestras, and we NEVER got those performances for free.

TheBigA,

I made the assumption about the fact from the link below. The information that was indirectly confirmed by other sources I have. Read the bottom of the fist page:

“…but the orchestra does not charge for broadcasting its performances.”

http://www.boston.com/ae/music/articles/2009/12/18/a_new_wcrb_and_a_shrinking_classical_dial/

I imagine that GBH dropped the Friday performance because it had a smaller audience, and therefore less valuable to the station. It would be cheaper to play label recordings than original performances because of the fees involved. That's just my guess.

According to GBH the Friday Broadcasts had 3 times more listeners then the Saturday Broadcasts

Rgs, the Cat

 

[TheBigA]

That doesn't address the musicians union fee or the recording fees.

And the article doesn't interview the BSO itself, who is the rights holder in this case. They would normally control how their performances are used.