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Aphex 2020MkIII

W

WNTIRadio

I know, everyone is going to chime in with "replace it!" on this thread. So I'll preface with: I would if I could, but the station is stuck with them for the next couple of years. Replacement isn't an option right now; gotta make them work as best as they can.

With that out of the way, here's the scenario. Top 10 market. Air chain is Ariane "Classic", Aphex 2020MkIII, AES out to Starlink, Starlink AES in to BE FXi60 exciter.

Have it sounding a lot better than when I arrived, but as soon as I tune over to everyone else running the Omnias and Orbans and maybe even a Vorsis and come back its like a pillow is over the speaker. I have another unit without the preemphasis option feeding the talent headphones and monitors pre-delay, and that sounds decent. As soon as the preemphasis is added it all goes to mush.

Is there any trick to this thing of squeezing out a little more "air" on the top end? The bass is as deep as the ocean, but the top is as cloudy as the sky above said ocean. The band 3 to band 4 crossover is set at 4.5kHz. The brightness, which I understand to be the release time of the HF limiter is at 75%. Started at 46% and have walked it up from there. Density is set to 2.9, walked that up from 1.6. All of these tweaks have helped some, but not enough. It's as loud as the others, but not as clear.

Any ideas on settings or anything to get it at least in the ballpark? There's the option to insert something between the leveler and the MB limiter. Would a lightly set BBE or Aural Exciter do it? Or will that just push the HF limiter harder and still sound like mush?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. And again, no, I can't replace it!! Believe me, I want to put an Omnia 11 in there but $11k doesn't grow on trees...
 
Top 10 market still running this??Hard to figure that one.What format are they? i tweaked one years ago on a country,sounded ok,but you can not push this baby as you have found out.Some engs used a composite clipper,not the cp-803 but another model,which slips my mind.But at another site i did a side by side with an o3t.It blew the doors off that aphex..I thought these things were boat anchors by now.Heck,i;d run Breakaway over this..I'd suggest an Omnia one or Vorsis vp-8.To my ears the vp-8 just sounds fuller,but they;re both excellent boxes...Good luck with that 2020.
 
No promises on the 2020, but in general my experience is that if the high end does not sound "airy" and the harder you try to make it brighter the less it works, then you're moving the wrong direction.

Instead of doing things that intuitively seem like the should INCREASE the amount of high end, try doing the opposite. Thin it out. Slow down the high band's release, make it attack a little more slowly, etc. I've noticed our ears do not perceive more high end in the way a person might expect them to. A lot of high end (too much) is often perceived to be flat and lifeless.

As a side benefit, if you can reduce density in the high band, you may able to subtly increase the actual amount of high band content that makes it into the final mix, using whatever output mix controls are available to you.

A word of warning, I've never heard a 2020 be able to stand next to an Omnia or newer Optimod on crispness. I don't think that's part of the appeal of the 2020. It's analog, it's supposed to sound smooth and silky, maybe "organic", but not crispy.
 
This may or may not be doable for your situation, but if you can put your on-air audio on a high bitrate private stream (like a Shoutcast stream) I have an idea which could help you.

When I had my webstream and before I finally replaced the 2020 MKIII with an Optimod 6200 DAB I called Aphex as I too wasn't all that pleased with the sound of the box. Wayne LaFarr spent at least an hour (maybe even longer) time with me on the phone making suggestions for settings while listening to the audio. I would bet Wayne could probably give you some help. He could listen to your audio product via the stream, which is why I suggest that.

I have a 2020 MKI with the stereo generator and digital I/O board and I'm on the fence of either sending it in for an upgrade or replacing it with something like an Omnia One instead. At least you have some better improvement with the MKIII as there's clear improvement over the MKI
 
The 2020's were kind of a pain to adjust, but with the right tweaking, and a composite clipper...I could get the mkIII to sound pretty decent. Would it compare to an O6/9/11? No. I could always get the 2020's to sound rather pretty. I agree with the earlier poster, try backing out the highs in the mix section.

The suggestion to use Breakaway over the 2020 is a good one, and call Aphex!
 
It's a non-comm AAA, so that's why I'm stuck with the 2020. Thanks for all the suggestions, I'm going to try the high end trick and back it off a little. The problem is on that box there are no controls for attack time, all the MB limiter attack and release, except for the slow platform G/R comes from the "wave dependent compressor", which is the module from the Easyrider series.

I have an Omnia one that I'm auditioning for another client. I may put it on the air here just to listen for a day or two, but from dealing with both, I'm not 100% sure the Omnia One can do any better to keep up with the 6EXi's, 8500's, 11's and 8600's. Might be a little brighter than the 2020, but not necessarily any cleaner or louder. And that all depends upon what management wants to do. Ultimately, it's up to management. I'm hoping that perhaps next year an 11 could be in the future as part of an overall upgrade. That can be as bright and loud, yet still sound really natural and open.

I'll post later on how it the tweaks turn out. I'll also work on taking the 128k stream on the on-air box (it's being fed by the other 2020MkIII that is sans HF limiter).
 
Your problem is exactly why I ditched my 2020... The HF limiter is a real P in the A :-\

My 2 cents (keep reading till the end!!!'):
1. Tell the manager the 2020 is broken and you need to fix it. It'll cost up to $600
2. Buy any second hand C2D HP Workstation, clean it out, put an SSD and Marian trace in it and buy Breakaway. ($600 or less)
3. Blow away those O6's and 8500's and be a hero
;) ;D
 
Trust me, I would love to. I have Breakaway in the shop at home. It IS a nice processor. I don't think they'll go for a PC running the audio just yet. That may take a little time and conversation. Even though PC's run the automation 24/7, for some reason people are stuck on the idea that it can't process the audio, only play it out.

I do wish Breakaway had some more tweakable features, that's my only complaint about it. You're kind of stuck with the presets and fast/slow, more/less, bass and clipping. Some form of EQ or band drives would be nice to be able to create the spectral balance to my tastes. But what the heck do you want for $299?

Don't need a Marian trace, as the AES out goes to the Starlink and the BE FXi60 is generating the stereo at the TX site. So really, all I would need is a sound card with a pro AES out. Hmmmm... Part of me wants to bring in my own PC and put it on and ask "anyone notice anything about our air sound today?"

The HF limiter sucks in the 2020, even the MkIII. It was a decades old design when it was hatched, and there are much better ways to handle the 75us curve. The original 2020 was even worse, with the optical limiter (the III has the Aphex VCA) and the "sliding preemphasis curve".
 
"Trust me, I would love to. I have Breakaway in the shop at home. It IS a nice processor. I don't think they'll go for a PC running the audio just yet. That may take a little time and conversation. Even though PC's run the automation 24/7, for some reason people are stuck on the idea that it can't process the audio, only play it out."

Keep the 2020 as a backup and tell them it is the other way around... Some people need to be protected from themselves. ;D
BTW BBP is only $199 (you don't need the ASIO version) and if you don't need the Trace Alpha... so you're looking at $450 max
How much does peace-of-mind cost nowadays...? ;)
 
Now you're catching on Nick.I would not spend much time on that and Bill, i sure would not upgrade a 2020,unload it on Ebay...Breakaway would be great.the new software will have more tweakable features.Put on your breakaway pc,they will be amazed!!
 
It's a III, so it isn't as bad as the others before it. If it were not in a big market, and somewhere out in the 'burbs, it really isn't a terrible sounding processor. Way better than the 2200 at another location.
 
Box is ok for formats like country and ac.Have to keep it tamed.Years ago some co.unloaded quite a few of the III's for $1500.00 ea,that was a gr8 deal..haven't seen one in forever!!
 
I wouldn't dream of running it without the Ariane in front. Honestly, that's the thing that makes it at least somewhat competitive in this situation.

Turned the high band up one click on the analog Ariane and put the release time on B4 to 3.5. Helped a bit, sounds okay on its own as long as I don't try and check it against the other guys running the latest and greatest.

One of the features that would have at least made this box more workable is some kind of band by band drive control. The only control for the MB drive is an overall drive level. No way to adjust your spectral balance other than to drive it harder, and that quickly reaches a point of diminishing returns.

I may try putting the BBE in the patch point on it and setting it around 9 o'clock to see if it adds any bit of definition on the high end. Don't need any bass enhancement with this box at all.
 
The MB AGC action always seemed really fast compared to the O's, when I've watched a 2020 work. Has that been your experience as well? It didn't sound choppy, but it sure looks like it should by watching it. Also, haven't ever seen a 2020 driven very haard in the MB AGC section.

If you didn't care much about loudness you could probably get a pretty sweet "old school" deep compression sound with the 2020 and some patience.

Wes
 
The MB AGC is actually a slower compression followed by a faster limiter in each band. Really, the display should have been set up like the compellor, where you can see the compression and limiting by using separate colors in the LEDs. Most of what you're seeing is the limiting action.

The only control that's there is for the compression, the limiting is all "automatic". I agree, it's too fast and distorts voice. A freeze gate would have helped that box out a lot, and it surprises me that it wasn't included. The other big limitation is only having 4 bands of limiting. Just like the Omnia One I have at one place, when it was 4 bands the HF suffered. The addition of the 5th band in the latest software release sure helps. Of course, that's the biggest limitation of the Aphex... adding a 5th band would require re-engineering the entire unit from the ground up. On the O-1, it was as simple as a 45 second software update.

It's ancient technology now, especially compared to the latest offerings from the O's and V's. For the $7k it would cost you to get one (new), you could easily get an O6 or an 8500 and be much happier.
 
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